[SPOILERS] Shae

[lucasd]

Was this supposed to be a list of the worst things that Tyrion has done? Because it's not a very damning list.

1) Marillion got his fingers broken by the mountain clans according to the wiki.

2) Arming the Vale clans was actually a brilliant act by Tyrion. It brought them into the war under his command, and it helped to keep the Vale occupied rather than side with his enemies.

3) Thinking something is funny is not the kind of behavior I'll hold against someone. People think violent thoughts all the time. The only ones I care about are those that act on them.

4) Tyrion drugged Cersei to keep her out of the small council. Calling this a poisoning suggests that Tyrion tried to murder her. Are you talking about this scene, or something else?

5) Tommen wasn't kidnapped by anyone's definition other than Cersei's. Children get betrothed as part of normal family business. Tyrion doesn't bear any ill will to Tommen and remarks about what a good boy he is. His threats to him are also hollow, made in hopes of sparing an innocent whore from being tortured by Cersei.

6) Tyrion spared Sansa from Joffrey's and Cersei's abuse, at the cost of his own safety. You're suggesting that his treatment of her was grievous? It seems to largely be the opposite, at great person risk to himself.

7) I don't recall the Antler Men, someone would have to explain this.

8) This is typical warfare. Not something to be admired, but also not something to hold over Tyrion specifically. I believe that Barriston remarks about how there is a beast in every man, and the atrocities that he's seen in war.

9) I'd like to read the scenes where Tyrion strikes Shae again. I don't remember what provoked that, or if Tyrion was just abusive.

10) What women issues? The reality that he is an ugly dwarf that people look down upon? Tyrion has a lot of baggage to deal with in that sense. I don't hold 'women issues' against anyone until that person starts abusing women. And Tyrion doesn't strike me as an abuser of women in particular. He's an all-around jerk and bully to everyone. He insults people regularly unless he takes a liking to someone that's already being bullied. And then he bullies the bully. Most people find that part of Tyrion endearing.

11) Dismissing the Night's Watch is a bit harsh. He did talk to his father about helping them. Tyrion put some effort into getting them resources, donated some cash personally, and made more of an argument in their behalf than anyone else does in the whole story. The only other people I recall helping out the Watch at all are Ned Stark and Stannis. And Ned does no more for the watch than Tyrion.

Overall, that's a pretty sad list of things that make Tyrion a villain. I will readily admit that Tyrion is a jerk and a bully. But he is a likable character who tends to be on the right side of things. He's had some debatable scenes, like when he killed Tywin and choked Shae to death. I hold more contempt of Tyrion for shooting Tywin than for anything else. Everything that was listed above adds up to morally ambiguous at best.

I think most of the readers thinks that Tyrion is evil from the first book impression, where Catelyn starts it.

Basically, when we could call Ned as Lawful Good and Tyrion is Chaotic Good (at least till his escape, yet the deed was clearly manipulated by Varys).

Excluding breaking singer's fingers, everything he does is usually for greater good, but he is not afraid to break the law (as Ned).

Also almost everything backfires

"Joffrey is so good, but the evil hand is making all the misery".

For example Antler man.

They were traitors and they would die. Yet by giving them to Joffrey he had him occupied (not allowing for stupid orders) and giving morale to people.

Cersei in the end recall Jofrey which almost ends the siege, and Tyrion goes out to boost morale.

11. Night watch and Tyrion.

He did everything he could for them at this point, given his power.

He ridiculed him in front of the court, because it was the only way he could help them given circumstances (war and everybody else thinks it is fairy tells).

You can easily say that excluding the north he was the most active player in the watch business

[ugashep]

So this episode we see the Tyrion-Sansa wedding and of course everyone expects Tyrion to consummate the marriage, which he doesn't. Shae is of course upset at Tyrion for getting married and having sex with a "little girl" and not staying faithful to her (I guess).

BUT THEN when Shae goes to change the sheets and realizes that Tyrion has not had sex with her she seems proud of him and does not seem to bear any bad will to him. SO HOW IN THE WORLD WILL:

Shae betray Tyrion by witnessing against him in the trial and sleeping with Tywin?

Let me know how you guys think this will play out.

Shae is actually a faceless man who used to be Syrio Forel, she did not die, she will reemerge in the next book when she learns that she is a secret Targaryen.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

We don't know what's on bookShae's mind, to be honest. Just because she didn't love Tyrion in the same way he loved her doesn't mean she went' straight to Cersei and told her "Yes, I was Tyrion's whore, I'll testify against him if you give me gold". If she never actually cared about Tyrion, she probably only wanted to get out of there before Tywin or Cersei found her and kill her (didn't she knew that they didn't want Tyrion to keep her there?) and take her money and gifts with her. Yet, when they did find her (they knew Tyrion had one and probably more whores), the made her speak against him. Again, not loving someone doesn't make you a bad person, and it was her job to make Tyrion believe she loved him, she's not a sympathetic character but she's not a villain either.

showShae does seem to care for Tyrion, unless she's that much a good actress and manipulative. Why would she ask Tyrion to leave Westeros if all of his money (and consequently, her money) came from Tyrion's father and name? She just said it to pretend she cares knowing that he would say no? She's not THAT smart and even if she is, that would risk her incomes in case he says yes and she's never going to find another patron like him. So, Shae in the show is less a neutral character and she honestly loves Tyrion. Her problem is that she's growing resentful (rather than jealous) because of their doomed romance. He's never going to marry her nor be her husband, and she seemed to not understand that Tyrion can't say no to his father because without him, his name and money, Tyrion can't survive by himself. Maybe she deluded herself into thinking that because Tyrion was a dwarf and an outcast, he would never marry a noble woman so he would choose her instead: if she did, she had a point until Tywin ordered his son to marry Sansa, who was more a prisoner with only a name but not power by herself. I don't see Shae becoming "jealous", but betrayed, thinking that Tyrion didn't fight enough for her, even when he had no position to do it. He did defend her and protect her and in both book and show he tried to help her even after he got married, find her a husband in the book, and a house in the show. Shae said not because she felt she was nothing but his whore and the reality is that while they lived in Westeros and under Tywin's rules, she couldn't be more than that.

[Blushingfae]

I've always interpreted Shae as being someone that was maybe hired by Tywin to spy/betray Tyrion from the very beginning (and that's one of the reasons why she's sharing Tywin's bed in the end). I've always interpreted her "love" for Tyrion as just being a role that she is playing and there's no reason to think Show-Shae is any different. She reveals her true colors in the end, and Tyrion kills her for it.

I've always interpreted Shae as being someone that was maybe hired by Tywin to spy/betray Tyrion from the very beginning (and that's one of the reasons why she's sharing Tywin's bed in the end). I've always interpreted her "love" for Tyrion as just being a role that she is playing and there's no reason to think Show-Shae is any different. She reveals her true colors in the end, and Tyrion kills her for it.

I totally agree. We saw her meet with Varys a while back, and there is one glaring thing that has always bothered me about Tywin, he insists Tyrion does not bring his whore to Kings Landing. Every parent knows the one way to get your stubborn kid to do something is to tell him NO.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

imagine if it was Bronn, since Lollys hasnt been in the show. :eek:

Shae is not marriageable material. Bronn points this out last episode. Also Bronn is offered a wife that gives him a chance at having a son that would be a lord of a small castle. Meaning he could become a lord protector if things work out correct for him. Which they do because Cersei is a moron.

Yeah, they're gonna play the psycho jealous bitch card with her, aren't they :(

I guess they already had the Ros trying to play her cards to move up in the world and we see how that turned out.

I don't know how it's going to play out, I mean if she still tries to be jealous after Tyrion doesn't sleep with Sansa then I think people will want her to die.

I'll be mad if that's her reason for a betrayal...I liked it much more when she loved Tyrion and cared for Sansa, and was against the marriage mostly for Sansa's well being, but recognising that Tyrion can't do much.

Trying to have Shae/Tyrion love deal is just stupid. Tyrion is suppose to be a smart man. He knows that he cannot keep Shae a secret in KL forever. His father will kill her when she is discovered or worse give her to all his soldiers and parade her naked through the streets. Tyrion's idea in the book of finding her a hedge knight for her to marry or something and live in the city happily ever after was a good idea.

but with Shae being genuinely in love with Tyrion for who he is just makes it impossible for him to give her a happy ending.

Danerys killed Doreah for less, and did so in a more gruesome way. Poor Doreah was ordered specifically to seduce Xaro Xhoan Daxos, and we don't even know if and how she betrayed Danerys. She was thrown into an empty cage to starve to death.

There was a horrible deleted scene with Doreah being the one that steals Dany's dragons and kills her handmaiden Irri. IDK if a deleted scene counts as canon or not. If they kept it in then everyone would be happy that Doreah got put in that vault, instead of confused.

but the "monologue" is horrible, just simply horrible.

here's the

If HBO can have the very sympathetic Dany do that, then Tyrion can strangle the two-timing whore that plots against him, condemns him to death in trial, and sleeps with his father while he rots in jail.

I really don't see how anyone's going to have an issue with Tyrion killing Shae. The only issue is making the actual betrayal realistic.

It makes the betrayal less realistic. Shae doesn't care about gold or money or anyone else, she wants to sail off to Pentos with Tyrion. When she did care about money, gold, jewels and getting a handsome knight for a husband with a keep for herself in the city, the betrayal makes more sense.

Now I seem to think that somehow Varys will hide Shae from Cersei and Shae will go with Tyrion to Pentos like she has wanted to do for the last two seasons. Also I expect Bronn to possibly go as well. Let's just keep the whole group together why don't we?

In the books I didn't think that Shae actually betrayed Tyrion. She lied about their relationship and her background, but Tyrion was doomed when she testified against him, it was just Cersei twisting the knife. After Cersei doesn't give her the things she promised Shae, she turns to someone or something else which makes her then ends up in Tywin's bed naked.

Bronn's betrayal is a bit more harsh because Bronn actually has a chance to save Tyrion's life, all be it a pretty mountainous task for a reward that is less than what Cersei offers him.

I think it's hugely important that Bronn doesn't fight for Tyrion. It shows that there's a limit to what a sellsword will do for the person that they're in service to and that there's a reason there's no old bold sellswords.

I think there's a lot more grey things that Dany is starting to do that people are starting to think that she's getting too arrogant.

My unsullied brother believes that Dany is going to "not win" because she's getting too corrupted by power.

We don't know what's on bookShae's mind, to be honest. Just because she didn't love Tyrion in the same way he loved her doesn't mean she went' straight to Cersei and told her "Yes, I was Tyrion's whore, I'll testify against him if you give me gold".

Shae was detained because she was Sansa's handmaiden and Cersei believed that she knew where Sansa Stark had disappeared to. Basically all I'm trying to say is, the queen came to her, questioning her, so she found out the truth. How easily Shae ratted her out would probably change how some people feel about her, if she holds out for awhile compared to folding quickly. We know from Cersei's POV that Cersei made "certain promises" which she didn't really care about keeping to a whore and Shae was depending on some of those things to get out of the situation in decent shape with her life.

The trial does start a few days after the PW and Shae's testimony is on the last day of the three or four day trial, so it does take less than a week for Shae to turn on Tyrion.

If she never actually cared about Tyrion, she probably only wanted to get out of there before Tywin or Cersei found her and killed her (didn't she know that they didn't want Tyrion to keep her there?) and take her money and gifts with her. Yet, when they did find her (they knew Tyrion had one and probably more whores), the made her speak against him. Again, not loving someone doesn't make you a bad person, and it was her job to make Tyrion believe she loved him, she's not a sympathetic character but she's not a villain either.

:agree:

showShae does seem to care for Tyrion, unless she's that much a good actress and manipulative. Why would she ask Tyrion to leave Westeros if all of his money (and consequently, her money) came from Tyrion's father and name? She just said it to pretend she cares knowing that he would say no? She's not THAT smart and even if she is, that would risk her incomes in case he says yes and she's never going to find another patron like him.

That's the funny thing isn't it? Shae can find work anywhere, though if she keeps her agreement with Tyrion to "not take another man into her bed" then how does she work as a whore? She can't. Tyrion would not be able to find a job across the narrow sea either. His money, power, influence come from his name. The only thing he has to offer once you take his name away is his "knowledge and wisdom".

So, Shae in the show is less a neutral character and she honestly loves Tyrion. Her problem is that she's growing resentful (rather than jealous) because of their doomed romance. He's never going to marry her nor be her husband,

Is it somehow possible that she believes he is going to love her, since the only woman that he ever loved was a whore that was payed to love him? I mean this act that she's pulling of trying to be in love with him, etc. is exhausting but is it all an act? From what I remember Tyrion cannot get a read on her. He doesn't even know where she's from.

and she seemed to not understand that Tyrion can't say no to his father because without him, his name and money, Tyrion can't survive by himself. Maybe she deluded herself into thinking that because Tyrion was a dwarf and an outcast, he would never marry a noble woman so he would choose her instead: if she did, she had a point until Tywin ordered his son to marry Sansa, who was more a prisoner with only a name but not power by herself.

I think the only thing that she might possibly know is that Tyrion doesn't have self confidence with girls because he's a dwarf and the only woman that ever loved him he believes is a whore who was payed to love him.

Tyrion points out that Sansa is going to have many suitors because of her name alone, the fact that she's a beautiful young girl just is icing on the cake.

The same fact cannot be said for Tyrion though, even though by rights he should be heir to Castley Rock since Jaime is Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. Even Margaery Tyrell points this out. My question is why is no one else tried to offer one of their daughters for Castley Rock?

I don't see Shae becoming "jealous", but betrayed, thinking that Tyrion didn't fight enough for her, even when he had no position to do it. He did defend her and protect her and in both book and show he tried to help her even after he got married, find her a husband in the book, and a house in the show. Shae said not because she felt she was nothing but his whore and the reality is that while they lived in Westeros and under Tywin's rules, she couldn't be more than that.

but I don't understand her position. It just doesn't make sense to me. She wants to leave Westeros, why doesn't she? She's in love with a man that she can never marry, she doesn't want to have children with either. Are we going to assume that Tyrion is a better lover than Podrick? Is that the answer we have to go with? Shae has to realize that there's no future that ends well for her. Does Shae just not believe she can find someone out there that will be as happy with her as Tyrion is?

That is possible. Tyrion is one of the few people that will love a whore for who she is, because he doesn't believe that there's any woman that could love him for who he is. Shae is trying to be that girl for him. Someone that doesn't care if he's rich or a juggler but it seems a little bit unrealistic if Shae truly is in love with Tyrion. Not because Tyrion's a dwarf but because Shae is "da funny whore"

[SerMixalot]

Shae is actually a faceless man who used to be Syrio Forel, she did not die, she will reemerge in the next book when she learns that she is a secret Targaryen.

I thought that was Ros's role

[DemiNymph]

Bronn's betrayal is a bit more harsh because Bronn actually has a chance to save Tyrion's life, all be it a pretty mountainous task for a reward that is less than what Cersei offers him.

I think it's hugely important that Bronn doesn't fight for Tyrion. It shows that there's a limit to what a sellsword will do for the person that they're in service to and that there's a reason there's no old bold sellswords.

Don't you bring Bronn in. Bronn did not betray Tyrion. He has made it clear from the beginning that their relationship is based on mercenary benefits and Tyrion agreed to it. They even reinforced this several times during their relationship. Bronn likes Tyrion but does not owe him any loyalty, nor has he said he is loyal to Tyrion. How can it be a betrayal then?

[Roose Seal]

Bronn Shae did not betray Tyrion. He She has made it clear from the beginning that their relationship is based on mercenary prostitute benefits and Tyrion agreed to it. They even reinforced this several times during their relationship. Bronn Shae likes Tyrion but does not owe him any loyalty, nor has he she said he she is loyal to Tyrion. How can it be a betrayal then?

Tyrion expressedly asked Shae to lie to him and pretend that she was in love with him.

People have no qualms calling Shae a treacherous whore but don't mind Bronn's treason.

I'm pretty sure GRRM drew an intentional parallel between those two situations to underline just how differently man and woman who sell their services are treated in Westeros. Bronn is rewarded for his actions, Shae is killed.

It's pretty funny that the readers generally react in a similar manner to Westeros society: At best, Bronn is considering a badass for "betraying" his "friend" to better his situation, at worst, people are indifferent. Shae on the other hand is a dirty cocksucking whore who deserved to die for doing the exact same thing.

I'm willing to bet my Nimbus 2000 that the show is going to play up the Crazy Jealous Scorned Woman trope with Shae and make Tyrion's murder look completely justified. The scene will be scripted/shot in a way that will make the audience feel sorry for Tyrion for falling for such a despicable whore.

[Woman of War]

Tyrion expressedly asked Shae to lie to him and pretend that she was in love with him.

People have no qualms calling Shae a treacherous whore but don't mind Bronn's treason.

I'm pretty sure GRRM drew an intentional parallel between those two situations to underline just how differently man and woman who sell their services are treated in Westeros. Bronn is rewarded for his actions, Shae is killed.

But book Shae lied to Tyrion while she did her job. Many jobs include lying to clients: the hairdresser "you look great" while arranging the five hairs left. The doctor "of course you will soon be better" - or not, the saleswoman "you look great in that dress" - whatever you wear it makes no difference. But when the workday or the contract is over it is over. Neither the hairdresser nor the doctor nor the saleswoman are entitled to swear a perjury at the expense of their client or anyone, for the reason that they have to lie during their job from time to time. And being a prostitute is a job just like any job with close personal contact. Assuming that prostitutes are entitled to perjury on principle turns them into allegedly somewhat lesser citizens, lesser human beings, to whom general morality does not apply .This is highly derogatory. Prostitutes are subject to the same moral rules everyone else is: perjury is wrong.

[Roose Seal]

But book Shae lied to Tyrion while she did her job. Many jobs include lying to clients: the hairdresser "you look great" while arranging the five hairs left. The doctor "of course you will soon be better" - or not, the saleswoman "you look great in that dress" - whatever you wear it makes no difference. But when the workday or the contract is over it is over. Neither the hairdresser nor the doctor nor the saleswoman are entitled to swear a perjury at the expense of their client or anyone, for the reason that they have to lie during their job from time to time. And being a prostitute is a job just like any job with close personal contact. Assuming that prostitutes are entitled to perjury on principle turns them into allegedly somewhat lesser citizens, lesser human beings, to whom general morality does not apply .This is highly derogatory. Prostitutes are subject to the same moral rules everyone else is: perjury is wrong.

You are making me say things I really didn't say at all. Where did I ever say that Shae should get a free pass for perjury because she was a whore?

I never said Shae was completely in the right, but many people around here seem to be under the impression that Shae deserved to be brutally murdered for committing perjury.

Considering the "between a rock and a hard place" situation was in (tell the truth and possibly be executed by Tywin or lie and possibly get a better deal) and Westeros' general contempt for whores, I daresay many of us would've done the same thing. I know I would've, perjury be damned.

People aren't hung up on the fact that Shae lied in court, they're hung up on the fact that she seemingly betrayed golden-boy Tyrion, the implication here being that she owed Tyrion (someone who mistreated her on many occasions) any sort of loyalty. She didn't. Or at least not any more than Bronn did. And therein lies the double-standard.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

Don't you bring Bronn in. Bronn did not betray Tyrion. He has made it clear from the beginning that their relationship is based on mercenary benefits and Tyrion agreed to it. They even reinforced this several times during their relationship. Bronn likes Tyrion but does not owe him any loyalty, nor has he said he is loyal to Tyrion. How can it be a betrayal then?

I think my point is that Bronn doing nothing is not betrayal. Just like Shae is not betraying Tryion either. The situation is a bit different but as far as Tyrion's concerned Bronn has a chance to save him, where Shae does not.

That is what I meant, from Tyrion's point of view, losing Bronn was his best chance to win his trial.

Shae cannot condemn him nor save him. Both have a level of frustration as Tyrion cannot possibly give Bronn a legitimate reason to champion him, besides "promises" of if and when and maybe. After he's arrested he cannot protect Shae either and realizes the error in keeping her around.

[Stark Outlook]

i always assumed that book shae was fooling tyrion all along, he wanted her to love him so she played that role and made him happy as a whore in her position should do. after tyrions fall from grace she took another oppertunity to gain stature with tywin and as she never liked him it was an easy betrayal

it seems theyre trying to give the impression that tv shae actually cares for tyrion but again that may just be for the audience and she could be faking it too. i wouldnt be surprised if they changed her story completely, but if they dont i think it would still work

[house of husky]

I agree partialy

in the books she ended up in Lord Tywin's bed? why?

if it was just a way of surviving, why bedding Lord Tywin?

I always wondered about that. Tywin didnt really seem to be up for any rumpy pumpy. I never saw him as having needs other than being controlling and all powerfull

[Woman of War]

You are making me say things I really didn't say at all. Where did I ever say that Shae should get a free pass for perjury because she was a whore?

I never said Shae was completely in the right, but many people around here seem to be under the impression that Shae deserved to be brutally murdered for committing perjury.

Considering the "between a rock and a hard place" situation was in (tell the truth and possibly be executed by Tywin or lie and possibly get a better deal) and Westeros' general contempt for whores, I daresay many of us would've done the same thing. I know I would've, perjury be damned.

People aren't hung up on the fact that Shae lied in court, they're hung up on the fact that she seemingly betrayed golden-boy Tyrion, the implication here being that she owed Tyrion (someone who mistreated her on many occasions) any sort of loyalty. She didn't. Or at least not any more than Bronn did. And therein lies the double-standard.

Of course Shae did not deserve to be murdered, it was wrong to do so. No one deserves to be murdered or to be executed. But Book Shae did far more than to lie because she was forced: she was spiteful with that bit of giant fo Lannister and she falsely accused Sansa as well who was a child and for sure would have been executed alongside with Tyrion, Sansa had certainly not wronged Shae. So Shae did for sure far more than someone caught between a rock and a hard place. i like her character as streetwise woman but this was inexcusable.

And this cannot be compared to Bronn. He refused to do a dangerous action while Shae actively did the wrong thing. Just as Tyrion was not entitled to murder her she was not entitled to put a nail into Tyrion's coffin.

Even if Tyrion had mistreated her, he slapped her ONCE, she was not entitled to be part in murder.

" the implication that she owed Tyrion any sort of loyalty...."

And there is for sure no right that you can wrong everone to whom you do not owe any sort of loyalty.

A working contract of society is precisely based on the rule that even people who do not know each other, who are not friends, who are not part of the same in-society group are yet bound by the same laws and owe each other correct behaviour. A lawful society is created on the fact that you are not entitled to wrong ANYONE. You owe a behaviour according to laws to ANY member of society, not only to those "you owe anything" otherwise society would collapse. If we apply modern morality exactly this counts for Shae concerning Sansa and Tyrion, "no loyalty" is not an excuse for telling damning lies.

[Ser Cookie Monster]

Serious question: If Shae becomes jealous, and betrayes Tyrion testifying against him, then why would she sleep with Tywin? Would that be part of the deal or something, or what?

[ChromeWeasel]

You are making me say things I really didn't say at all. Where did I ever say that Shae should get a free pass for perjury because she was a whore?

I never said Shae was completely in the right, but many people around here seem to be under the impression that Shae deserved to be brutally murdered for committing perjury.

Considering the "between a rock and a hard place" situation was in (tell the truth and possibly be executed by Tywin or lie and possibly get a better deal) and Westeros' general contempt for whores, I daresay many of us would've done the same thing. I know I would've, perjury be damned.

People aren't hung up on the fact that Shae lied in court, they're hung up on the fact that she seemingly betrayed golden-boy Tyrion, the implication here being that she owed Tyrion (someone who mistreated her on many occasions) any sort of loyalty. She didn't. Or at least not any more than Bronn did. And therein lies the double-standard.

Bronn didn't testify against Tyrion. Bronn didn't help Tyrion's enemies build a case against him. Shae was part of the conspiracy that gets Tyrion convicted of murder. Bronn was not.

How on earth is that even in the same ballpark? Shae actively DID betray Tyrion by lying in court. Bronn did nothing at all to help or hinder the process. That's not even remotely the same thing. You have to have some really bizarre prejudices to think that Shae and Bronn betrayed Tyrion equally. I do not have any hangups about 'golden boy' Tyrion at all. I can put myself in the situation of all three characters. I wouldnt testify against Tyrion if I was Shae. I wouldnt fight the mountain for Tyrion if I was Bronn. I would choke the life out of Shae if I was Tyrion. And I wouldnt realistically expect Bronn to fight for me against the Mountain.

[The Mighty Conch]

Serious question: If Shae becomes jealous, and betrayes Tyrion testifying against him, then why would she sleep with Tywin? Would that be part of the deal or something, or what?

Once you have dug yourself a whole, might as well keep digging to the other side.... :dunno:

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Bronn didn't testify against Tyrion. Bronn didn't help Tyrion's enemies build a case against him. Shae was part of the conspiracy that gets Tyrion convicted of murder. Bronn was not.

Bronn also never pretended to be in love with Tyrion, and never misled him as to his motives. Told him to his face that he liked him, but that he couldn't fight the Mountain as Tyrion's champion. And given what was happening, it really didn't affect Tyrion at all whether Bronn got a lordship or not. There was no betrayal.

Shae actively DID betray Tyrion by lying in court. Bronn did nothing at all to help or hinder the process. That's not even remotely the same thing. You have to have some really bizarre prejudices to think that Shae and Bronn betrayed Tyrion equally. I do not have any hangups about 'golden boy' Tyrion at all. I can put myself in the situation of all three characters. I wouldnt testify against Tyrion if I was Shae. I wouldnt fight the mountain for Tyrion if I was Bronn. I would choke the life out of Shae if I was Tyrion. And I wouldnt realistically expect Bronn to fight for me against the Mountain.

I don't think I could have choked the life out of Shae, but I wouldn't have objected if someone else did. Lying to facilitate giving an innocent man the death penalty, and an innocent girl as well, is no different morally from murder itself in my book.

[sausagekingchi]

Umm, in the books Shae talks to Tyrion about leaving King's Landing as well, but that still didn't stop her from fucking his father. In the books she absolutely is just using him and trying to manipulate him (my giant of Lannister - c'mon, she's totally playing him and why it was the exact wrong thing to say to Tyrion when he found her in his fathers room - it was absolute proof to him that everything she said/did was bs and it hurt him badly). Hell, Tyrion keeps reminding himself in the book to not trust her becuase she's just a whore, and the nice things she says are most likely lies. He's just so desparate to have someone love him he allows himself to buy into her lies. Shae's a scumbag whore and screws people for money, end of story. If they don't have her betray him on the show like they did in the books I'll be very disappointed.

[The Monkey]

I hate show-Shae so damn much. That actress can't deliver a single line that isn't cringe-worthy. As great as the scene of Tyrion killing Shae was in the book, I really wouldn't mind if she died in the next episode.