UK Politics: Backbenchers to the front!

[Horza]

I know people keep saying 'this isn't news' about leak revelations, but really. The relationship between GCHQ and it's American counterparts has been symbiotic from the very beginning.

[Usotsuki]

Whilst that's certainly true there has been a tendency in the past for the governments of the UK to maintain that as a partner with the United States we are obliged to shoulder our fair share of the burden of policing the world.

But it seems that now we're getting paid.

So if we can just negotiate the same rates as Booz, Allen and Hamilton austerity could be a thing of the past, we could maybe buy somewhere nice for the winter, perhaps Bali.

[Werthead]

To be fair, what Blair lacked wasn't common sense. You could question a lot of his decisions morally, but I've come to appreciate him so much more in light of the two reactionary buffoons we've had since.

I don't think you can really excuse Blair's moral culpability for the deaths of thousands of innocent people (including hundreds of British soldiers) on the basis of, "Some of his home policies were good ideas." That's pretty much the same as the "Well, at least the fascists made the trains run on time," defence.

Of the last few PMs, Blair is the only one who should be in jail. Brown and Cameron are merely massively incompetent in comparison. Major actually had some stones to him, which would made him a bit more well-liked if we'd known about it at the time (and, bizarrely, his stock seems to have gone up since it was discovered he'd been having an affair at the time; what are we, French now or something?), and seemed a bit more rational. Though if your baseline is Blair and Thatcher, that's not exactly a ringing endorsement.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Well, yes. Given that four of the five PMs of the past thirty years have either been giftedly incompetent to the point of parody, lying self-appointed pseudo-messiahs, or psychotic sociopaths, Major's mere mediocrity shines like a beacon.

[Horza]

...what is all of this saying about Sunny Jim, Ted Heath and Harold Wilson?

[Werthead]

British immigration officials arresting suspected illegal immigrants in London through racial profiling and live-Tweeting the results.

What the fuck?

Also, threatening to arrest bystanders who are asking where their reasonable cause is.

As pointed out in the articles, illegal immigrants are in the UK from all over the world, not just the Middle East and Africa. Yet the police officers were exclusively targetting black and Middle Eastern-looking people, many of whom are actually British citizens who have since complained to their MPs. Absolutely ridiculous.

[Alex.]

Its aggressive state sponsored racism. Disgusting.

[Seli]

They are asking to be slapped down hard by the courts and ECHR.

[mysig]

that is disgusting.

[Darth Visenya]

Well, yes. Given that four of the five PMs of the past thirty years have either been giftedly incompetent to the point of parody, lying self-appointed pseudo-messiahs, or psychotic sociopaths, Major's mere mediocrity shines like a beacon.

I think this is pretty much what I was trying to say before, except you did it better.

[mormont]

Well, yes. Given that four of the five PMs of the past thirty years have either been giftedly incompetent to the point of parody, lying self-appointed pseudo-messiahs, or psychotic sociopaths, Major's mere mediocrity shines like a beacon.

Alternatively, this may be mere hyperbole. I mean, I disagree passionately with Cameron's policies and don't rate him as a PM at all, but in no way can I fit him into any of the categories above. Equally, to fit Brown into any of them requires uncritical acceptance of the very worst narrative spun by a media that disliked him from the start. He undoubtedly had psychological issues, but no more so than, say, Ted Heath.

We could all just accept that to become PM requires a certain sort of personality and occasions a certain sort of scrutiny that would make even St Francis of Assisi seem like an individual you wouldn't trust to mind your car while you nipped in for a pint of milk, but I guess that would be boring.

[polishgenius]

I don't think you can really excuse Blair's moral culpability for the deaths of thousands of innocent people (including hundreds of British soldiers) on the basis of, "Some of his home policies were good ideas." That's pretty much the same as the "Well, at least the fascists made the trains run on time," defence.

The thing is I honestly don't think that invading Iraq was, overall, the wrong thing to do, even if the reasons of a lot of people were wrong (and of course it was badly handled after).

Lying to persuade people was the wrong thing, and I can't understand why he did it coz a speaker like Blair could, I'm certain, have convinced the country that a man like Saddam needs to be taken down without the addition of WMDs. The UN thing is a different matter, of course, but he could have given it a go.

And I'd also much rather that the UK was involved than all responsibility going to the US. I don't know how much actual tempering power the British army had, but it was notable that in the early days when responsibilities were divided, there was a lot less problems in the British-controlled areas than elsewhere.

Overall; I understand people's problems with Blair but I think labeling him a war criminal as some people do is inaccurate and rather cheapens the meaning of what 'war crime' actually is.

On the immigration thing: that's absolutely scandalous and a disgusting pandering to the EDL crowd. I hope for, but do not expect, firings over this.

[Liffguard]

And I'd also much rather that the UK was involved than all responsibility going to the US. I don't know how much actual tempering power the British army had, but it was notable that in the early days when responsibilities were divided, there was a lot less problems in the British-controlled areas than elsewhere.

A lot less problems in the short-term but some big problems further down the line. The British Army fucked up big time in Basra for instance.

[Werthead]

Alternatively, this may be mere hyperbole. I mean, I disagree passionately with Cameron's policies and don't rate him as a PM at all, but in no way can I fit him into any of the categories above. Equally, to fit Brown into any of them requires uncritical acceptance of the very worst narrative spun by a media that disliked him from the start. He undoubtedly had psychological issues, but no more so than, say, Ted Heath.

I think a strong case could be made for Cameron for:

giftedly incompetent to the point of parody

Even if we accept that Cameron himself seems to at least want to make the country a better place, he's certainly picked the wrong people to do it. IDS is reaching the point where he is the most despised politician of the last generation (bar maybe Blair) and is certainly both incompetent and a liar. Osborne is clearly incompetent and sometimes shows a very shaky grasp of basic economics, which is not really ideal in a chancellor. Michael Gove is not fit for purpose, has leaky foundations and should be condemned and demolished immediately. Jeremy Hunt thinks that munching on daffodils is preferable to hospital treatment, which is again not ideal for the person in charge of the NHS.

Essentially, Cameron has created the least-competent government this country has seen in a generation, made up of fools and morons. It would be the basis for a hilarious sitcom if it wasn't doing real damage to the country.

[Lummel]

Yeah, but on the other hand from Serco, ACOS and G4S's POV things are going GRREEEEAAT and as far as the merchant bankers are concerned they are moderately tolerable even if the public doesn't fully appreciate their deep inner need for more bonuses. Of course bit embarrassing that business with Cameron's chum's company A4E. Better luck next time Emma!

[Alex.]

FATBERG!

A sewage worker in Kingston, south-west London, has become an unlikely hero after battling – and, after three weeks, finally defeating – a toxic 15-tonne ball of congealed fat the size of a bus that came close to turning parts of the leafy royal borough into a cesspit.

The first sign of trouble came when residents in a block of flats close to the borough's main sewer reported difficulty flushing their toilets. When Gordon Hailwood and his team investigated, they found a massive "fatberg" of solidified grease and oils blocking 95% of the 8ft diameter brick sewer pipe. It took the men three weeks working in foul conditions to clear with high powered water jets.

"Kingston came very close to being flooded with sewage. We have recorded greater volumes of fat in the past but we don't believe there's ever been a single congealed lump of lard matching this one", said Simon Evans, a Thames Water spokesman.

Fatbergs, which build up on sewer roofs like mushy stalactites, rate high on any yuk scale. "I have witnessed one. It's a heaving, sick-smelling, rotting mass of filth and faeces. It hits the back of your throat, it's gross. It's steaming and it unleashes an unimaginable stink. Hailwood and his team certainly saved Kingston from a terrible fate", said Evans.

According to water and sewerage companies, large fatbergs are becoming more common. London, with the highest concentration of food businesses in the country, produces an estimated 32-44m litres of used cooking oil every year, much of which is poured down drains. Also, the use of wet "wipes" as toilet paper is increasing, with potentially disastrous results below ground.

Outstanding.

[Darth Visenya]

Essentially, Cameron has created the least-competent government this country has seen in a generation, made up of fools and morons. It would be the basis for a hilarious sitcom if it wasn't doing real damage to the country.

It's not really any worse than the one it replaced, the Governments of the last generation have just been incompetent in my opinion.

[Sophelia]

Ah, evening tiredness causes me to assume that one post is a reply to the next, so in one post I read:

Fatbergs, which build up on sewer roofs like mushy stalactites, rate high on any yuk scale. "I have witnessed one. It's a heaving, sick-smelling, rotting mass of filth and faeces. It hits the back of your throat, it's gross. It's steaming and it unleashes an unimaginable stink"

then the next post:

It's not really any worse than the one it replaced, the Governments of the last generation have just been incompetent in my opinion.

Roll on the next fatberg, I guess :uhoh:

[polishgenius]

It's not really any worse than the one it replaced.

Well, Gordon Brown was awful too, admittedly.

I think the key difference between Brown and Cameron though was that as a charisma vaccum with the PR skill of Luis Suarez, Brown panicked and started flailing and pandering to voters because he had no real hope of persuading them to his ideas, certainly not before the election. Whereas Cameron panders because he has no ideas or ideals of his own to persuade voters and MPs towards, beyond that he should be in charge.

[Slurms McKenzie]

well..... is anyone able to think of a potentially competent Prime Minister.... you know.. on the horizon as it were?