How come no one suspected anything?

[Nami]

When after the war Ned arrived at Winterfell with a baby and his sister's bones, how come no one connected the dots that the baby was Lyanna's?

Everyone knew Rhaegar was with her for a year somewhere.

Ned was a honorable man, and no one had a hard time believing or found it weird that the son was his.

I mean, doesn't it seem obvious that it isn't his?

Seeing Ned coming back with a baby and the remains of his dead sister I would be like "OMG Lyanna had a child" not immediatly believe the child is his.

[Mladen]

Ned wasn't known for his honor back then. He was just a young Lord who was raised in Eyrie. People knew nothing about his honor, and also people don't ask too many questions regarding bastards. Also, they might have thought he is just like Brandon.

[Nami]

I'm pretty sure people at Winterfell knew how he was...

Jon Arryn knew, Bob knew etc

[Mladen]

I'm pretty sure people at Winterfell knew how he was...

Jon Arryn knew, Bob knew etc

Jon and Robert weren't Winterfell people. They knew him because he was raised with Robert by Jon... He was a stranger for most of them.

[David Selig]

Jon and Robert weren't Winterfell people. They knew him because he was raised with Robert by Jon... He was a stranger for most of them.

Not really, Ned wasn't at the Eyrie all the time before the war, he spent a lot of time at Winterfell too as a teenager.

[Nami]

Jon and Robert weren't Winterfell people. They knew him because he was raised with Robert by Jon... He was a stranger for most of them.

Um, I know they aren't "winterfell people". I meant that those people also could have seen that the story was off, knowing Ned so well.

And if the people at Winterfell didn't know Ned, as you say, they got to know him with time, Cat got to know him with time and no one gave a thought about this.

[Nami]

Let's also add Benjen to this, that is if we believe he doesn't know Jon is not Ned's bastard.

[Stillhasclaws]

I think it may be partly because he had a reputation for honour that he was believed - ie Ned Starks too honourable to tell a lie, so no one really questioned it.

[Jaime's_Sword_Hand]

Ned's honesty and honor make accepting Jon as his bastard son easier to accept at face value, I think. He never wavered and gave anyone reason to doubt him. In particular Ned's refusal to talk about the other woman, especially with Catelyn, only seems to cement as fact for those around him that Jon is his because no one wants to talk about something they are ashamed of. That would be the perception; that the ever-honorable Ned Stark is ashamed he dishonored himself and Catelyn by having a child with another woman. Because he was known for being so honest, there is really no reason for anyone to question his story.

[Mladen]

Not really, Ned wasn't at the Eyrie all the time before the war, he spent a lot of time at Winterfell too as a teenager.

But he was 8 when he was sent to Eyrie, so I doubt he spent that much in Winterfell in his teen years.

Um, I know they aren't "winterfell people". I meant that those people also could have seen that the story was off, knowing Ned so well.

And if the people at Winterfell didn't know Ned, as you say, they got to know him with time, Cat got to know him with time and no one gave a thought about this.

They knew him as a child, not as grown up person. Some of them knew he was in love with Ashara, and he came with child after visiting her...

[JanAgro]

I thinks there was a kind of schadenfreud to their acceptance of Jon as Neds kid. Remember how Jaimie says hes more honorable than Ned coz he never cheated on Cersei,.that kind of thing.People were secretly glad that he had sinned

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Um, I know they aren't "winterfell people". I meant that those people also could have seen that the story was off, knowing Ned so well.

And if the people at Winterfell didn't know Ned, as you say, they got to know him with time, Cat got to know him with time and no one gave a thought about this.

The point is, they didn't know and so well as he had spent most of his life at the Eyrie. Anyway who are these "Winterfell people?" Besides Benjen, all of the other Starks were dead.

[Jory Cassel]

Um, I know they aren't "winterfell people". I meant that those people also could have seen that the story was off, knowing Ned so well.

And if the people at Winterfell didn't know Ned, as you say, they got to know him with time, Cat got to know him with time and no one gave a thought about this.

Still, I don't think anyone had a problem acknowledging that Ned simply slipped during the rebellion, even if they knew him and his honor. We have the "custom" that bastards are fathered during wars and maybe there were already rumours regarding Ned's affection for Ashara after the ToH, after all he had Brandon arrange a dance for him.

Not to forget that Ned was Robert's second in command, I he stated that he found Lyanna already dead, I'm not sure that someone would question his credibility, plus what was mentioned above.

It seems as if the people just accepted the explanation at hand, they probably had other concerns after the war, anyway.

And after all, there were are quite some unknown factors to consider, making a thorough explanation quite difficult: How did Ned know of the location of the ToJ and how did he get to know it without anyone else, if anyone else knew, who, and why did the said person not tell? Who knew he was going there, did Robert know? Why did Benjen join the Night's Watch in the first place?

[Jahbulon]

When after the war Ned arrived at Winterfell with a baby and his sister's bones, how come no one connected the dots that the baby was Lyanna's?

Everyone knew Rhaegar was with her for a year somewhere.

Ned was a honorable man, and no one had a hard time believing or found it weird that the son was his.

I mean, doesn't it seem obvious that it isn't his?

Seeing Ned coming back with a baby and the remains of his dead sister I would be like "OMG Lyanna had a child" not immediatly believe the child is his.

I like this post for a different reason.

Varys and Illyrio had to have followed the Starks and had to have planted their own agents into Winterfell at least shortly after the fall of Aerys II.

If there was any link to the Targaryan bloodline, whether they are Blackfyre sympathizers or not, they seem to be diligent enough to explore all avenues of power.

If Jon Snow is Lyanna's son, even possibly, you can bet that one of his close friends at the wall is in some sense a "little bird".

And that may end up being a huge and unseen (by the large and ignorant readership/viewership) plot device.

[JLE]

Although, keeping the mother's name secret implies that she was highborn, since a lowborn woman as mother to a bastard would not be much cause for suspicion. And Ned *was* known to have courted Ashara Dayne before taking over his late brother's obligations and betrothal to Catelyn Tully. (Fewer people know, although Barristan seems to be one of them, that Brandon Stark *also* had an affair with Ashara - and Barristan knows that Ashara did indeed have a bastard child by a Stark: Brandon's stillborn daughter.) All of this adds up to make the "Jon = Ned + Ashara" theory stack up - along with the fact that the vehemence of Ned's denials leads people to believe, not that Ashara is innocent, but that he really is that serious about not traducing the honour of a guilty highborn lady, and that this level of chivalry would trump even the desire to tell the truth.

So, "Ned + Ashara" would be the popular theory in Winterfell, that people learn not to gossip about. And in fact it makes a perfect smokescreen to hide "Rhaegar + Lyanna" behind. The louder Ned denies "Ned+Ashara" specifically, the more people think there's something to hide there, and the more attention is drawn *away* from anybody asking questions about possible Targaryen descendants who might be in danger from anyone wanting to curry favour with Robert...

One thing is for certain: Wylla the Wetnurse was NOT the mother, because her name would not have been worth Ned concealing (even though, at a pinch, he gives her name to Robert, because he has to give *a* name at that point, otherwise Robert would have had cause for suspicion.) The fact that he's kept the mother's identity secret from everybody else indicates her identity is worth keeping secret. (And the only reason for him NOT to name Wylla as the mother, in public, even if she isn't the mother, must be BOTH that it is a lie AND that he hates lying, and will lie no more than he has to - since even Wylla seems to be willing to call herself Jon Snow's real mother, according to Edric Dayne.)

[Florina Laufeyson]

Ned's honesty and honor make accepting Jon as his bastard son easier to accept at face value, I think. He never wavered and gave anyone reason to doubt him. In particular Ned's refusal to talk about the other woman, especially with Catelyn, only seems to cement as fact for those around him that Jon is his because no one wants to talk about something they are ashamed of. That would be the perception; that the ever-honorable Ned Stark is ashamed he dishonored himself and Catelyn by having a child with another woman. Because he was known for being so honest, there is really no reason for anyone to question his story.

Pretty much. Also, no one else seemed to refute it. The rumor mill was that it was Ashara Dayne and people kept to that one because of mystique and Ned's supposed desire for her. Also:

I thinks there was a kind of schadenfreud to their acceptance of Jon as Neds kid. Remember how Jaimie says hes more honorable than Ned coz he never cheated on Cersei,.that kind of thing.People were secretly glad that he had sinned

Theres a little bit of this, i feel, too. "Oh look, perfect golden boy, Ned, actually did do something naughty! Mwahaha!"

[Mladen]

I like this post for a different reason.

Varys and Illyrio had to have followed the Starks and had to have planted their own agents into Winterfell at least shortly after the fall of Aerys II.

If there was any link to the Targaryan bloodline, whether they are Blackfyre sympathizers or not, they seem to be diligent enough to explore all avenues of power.

If Jon Snow is Lyanna's son, even possibly, you can bet that one of his close friends at the wall is in some sense a "little bird".

And that may end up being a hire and unseen (by the large and ignorant readership/viewership) plot device.

Welcome to the forum...

And this, ladies and gentlemen is one of ground Boardology rules - At some point someone will inevitably claim Varys knoes everything. :)

The beauty about hiding Jon's true parentage is that Ned, who by all standards suck in playing the Game, has beaten Varys in keeping secret...

[JanAgro]

Varys and Illyrio had to have followed the Starks and had to have planted their own agents into Winterfell at least shortly after the fall of Aerys II.

Practally impossible a stranger in WF would stand out like a sore thumb. In the north you dont trust someone unless you know his granfather

[a free shadow]

There is not one thread specifially about this issue. Like this one.

In short, it is odd, at least a little, that we hear not even a rumour about it. But it does not mean there were none. It might be that it simply died away, because Eddard was so meticulous in keeping the lie up and because Jon grew up with no sign of Targaryen blood.

It can also be somewhat explained away by saying that the speculations about the tragic fate of Ashara Dayne, combined with the supposed fall of honourable Eddard Stark were enough for most of the people to rejoice and not want to let go. Also, most of them were having a thousand things on their minds after the war, while Eddard took Jon far away to the North and out of sight, where Catelyn's distaste for the child likely became famous soon.

Maybe someone who had time, data, heads and taste for cracking every puzzle on their way (Tywin, Tyrells) had some suspicion as well, but it is not like they could have been sure.

[N/A]

it wasn't that obvious really i mean it took us a couple of years and we knew everything that was happening