E-Ro Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 But why is that justice? In war you kill you're enemies, with any arms at your disposal. If the gods were just Renly would have declared for Stannis in the first place and the Lannisters would have lost the war of the five kings.I agree, renly got what was coming to him. Insulting stannis young daughter and wife, trying to steal the throne from kids he didnt even know were not roberts, and just being an ass in general. In fact, i would go so far as to say it would be justice if stannis got to kill loras for his part in convincing his father to declare for renly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2fingers Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I think it wouldn't be a book by GRRM if she got her revenge. Just like in life we may never get back at people who have angered us or wronged us. Sometimes you move on, fall in love, have kids. I think Brienne of Tarth will either move on in a way she never thought, like doing things a lady would. Or she will die by lady stonehearts hands to never have revenge or fufill her oaths. Remember that Rob never got his revenge either...GRRM has to have somebody finally get their revenge.......not everyone escapes vengeance. If GRRM is going for reality in a fictional, fantasy world...we should see people see their revenge come to fruition. In fact, that is the number one reason for murders in today society....somebody was wronged by someone and they eventually killed that person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 But why is that justice? In war you kill you're enemies, with any arms at your disposal. If the gods were just Renly would have declared for Stannis in the first place and the Lannisters would have lost the war of the five kings.Would "fitting" be a better word? Loras lost much more than Brienne when Renly died-I'd rather he get to take Stannis' life than her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StannisBamfatheon Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I agree, renly got what was coming to him. Insulting stannis young daughter and wife, trying to steal the throne from kids he didnt even know were not roberts, and just being an ass in general. In fact, i would go so far as to say it would be justice if stannis got to kill loras for his part in convincing his father to declare for renly.Bingoooo.And good point about Renly not knowing about the parentage of Tommen, Joffrey, Myrcella. He was an over ambitious usurper in the truest sense and he paid for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Would "fitting" be a better word? Loras lost much more than Brienne when Renly died-I'd rather he get to take Stannis' life than her.I think your letting your dislike of stannis get in the way here. In war, people die. That whole thing could have been far bloodier then it ended up being. And lets be honest, loras and co were in the wrong.Bingoooo.And good point about Renly not knowing about the parentage of Tommen, Joffrey, Myrcella. He was an over ambitious usurper in the truest sense and he paid for it.Glad we are on the same page brah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StannisBamfatheon Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I'm just saying justice= righting a wrong. If Loras wants vengeance he's welcome to try. Though the whole ordeal ruined Brienne's life far more than Loras' as WK pointed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I think your letting your dislike of stannis get in the way here. In war, people die. That whole thing could have been far bloodier then it ended up being. And lets be honest, loras and co were in the wrong.It's not like Stannis was an innocent drawn against his will in the war. He invaded Renly's lands and besieged his castle. He started the war between the brothers and by his own admission he had exactly zero evidence for his incest claims besides the very weak "Edric looks more like Robert than Cercei's kids". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I think your letting your dislike of stannis get in the way here. In war, people die. That whole thing could have been far bloodier then it ended up being. And lets be honest, loras and co were in the wrong.Do you use the same logic for the Red Wedding? Were the Frey's/Lannister's/Bolton's justified because it could have been far bloodier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis' shadow babies Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I don't think they'll cross paths but if the do, I'd like it to happen once Stannis is king (I mean officially king of the 7 kingdoms), so Brienne has to make the choice to (eventually) become a kingslayer. Not to save thousands of lives, like Jaime did, but to avenge a ghost. I'd like to see her in a situation somehow similar to Jaime's and find out what she chooses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I think your letting your dislike of stannis get in the way here. In war, people die. That whole thing could have been far bloodier then it ended up being. And lets be honest, loras and co were in the wrong.Of all the arguments Stannis had to kill Renly, I hate this one the most. It sounds too much like when Tywin justified RW. Simply, Renly was ambitious man that needed to be stopped somehow and Stannis did it. End of story. IF Renly wasn't obliged by anything, why would Stannis be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Do you use the same logic for the Red Wedding? Were the Frey's/Lannister's/Bolton's justified because it could have been far bloodier?Parallels exist, but Freys and Boltons also betrayed Robb, while Stannis and Renly were obvious enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 It's not like Stannis was an innocent drawn against his will in the war. He invaded Renly's lands and besieged his castle. He started the war between the brothers and by his own admission he had exactly zero evidence for his incest claims besides the very weak "Edric looks more like Robert than Cercei's kids".He invaded renlys lands after renly started starving his capitol city, and subjecting innocent civilians to death by starvation. At least stannis felt stronlgy that the kids were not roberts, do you really think he would he declared himself king if he had any doubt in his mind of the kids legitimacy? Do you use the same logic for the Red Wedding? Were the Frey's/Lannister's/Bolton's justified because it could have been far bloodier?At the red wedding thousands died, not one person. The red wedding was also betrayal, stannis had sworn nothing to renly. They were enemies and they both knew it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 He invaded renlys lands after renly started starving his capitol city, and subjecting innocent civilians to death by starvation. At least stannis felt stronlgy that the kids were not roberts, do you really think he would he declared himself king if he had any doubt in his mind of the kids legitimacy?LOL, "his capitol city". This really cracked me up.Stannis "felt strongly"? Who cares? What gives him the right to act all righteous and "I am the true king" when he had zero evidence and barely anyone supported his claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Tony Stark Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 GRRM has to have somebody finally get their revenge.......not everyone escapes vengeance. If GRRM is going for reality in a fictional, fantasy world...we should see people see their revenge come to fruition. In fact, that is the number one reason for murders in today society....somebody was wronged by someone and they eventually killed that person.I agree. Atleast there should be some who get their happy ending. That's much more "realistic" than everyone getting a bitter ending.But to answer the question, I personally think it would be more suited if Brienne atleast fulfill 1/2 of her oath to Cat, bump into Sansa/Arya, than to be the one to kill Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentwanderer Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Would "fitting" be a better word? Loras lost much more than Brienne when Renly died-I'd rather he get to take Stannis' life than her.The real issue to me is not which one lost more - arguably Loras lost much more than Brienne or Margaery in this - but that Brienne has already changed her desire for revenge into a quest for life without even notice it herself.Her honor lies no longer into avenge Renly, but to save Jaime: every single one of her POVs has made the point of how important this is to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab aeterno Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 It's not like Stannis was an innocent drawn against his will in the war. He invaded Renly's lands and besieged his castle. He started the war between the brothers and by his own admission he had exactly zero evidence for his incest claims besides the very weak "Edric looks more like Robert than Cercei's kids".Well, he'd also been investigating this with Jon Arryn, we're led to believe, or as has been suggested on the forum, Littlefinger told him. His "evidence" is not really much weaker than Cat's evidence for seizing Tyrion, to be honest. I don't mean that as a criticism of Cat by any means, but he's hardly the only one to act on that level of evidence. Another example would be Ned, whose reasoning was exactly the same as Stannis'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I never had a problem with Stannis killing Renly, in war. The problem I've always had was the use of the shadowbaby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Jesus.Look, you can throw justice out the window here. All I meant was, I'd find it more pleasing if Loras got to take Stannis' head than if Brienne did it. I like stores about lovers seeking revenge and I have a soft spot for queer romances plus I dislike Stannis. I had no intention of starting yet another bloody Renly/Stannis argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aderyn the Sly Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I honestly don't see how Brienne is going to be anywhere near Stannis, and even if she did, E-Ro has a point - he is surrounded by an army, not to mention a snowstorm, his enemies' armies as well, and half a continent away. Why would she go north? If she did, I would much rather see her exacting her revenge on Melisandre than Stannis. The first time I read it seemed like Stannis didn't even realize what she had done, but on a reread it seems like it was as though he was trying to deny it. So he knows he is a kinslayer, and that will come back to haunt him later down the road-but not with Brienne.I would love to see her reach the Vale and "find" Sansa though. Or maybe Arya if she returns from Bravos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Well, he'd also been investigating this with Jon Arryn, we're led to believe, or as has been suggested on the forum, Littlefinger told him. His "evidence" is not really much weaker than Cat's evidence for seizing Tyrion, to be honest. I don't mean that as a criticism of Cat by any means, but he's hardly the only one to act on that level of evidence. Another example would be Ned, whose reasoning was exactly the same as Stannis'. Ned had a lot more evidence. Stannis never mentioned anything about the Baratheon - Lannister marriages always producing black haired kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.