Stannis' shadow babies Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 How avenging Renly could be a 'happy' ending? She may get her revenge, but Renly will still be dead. Very dead. I think Brienne may see this at some point. At least I'd like to see her pondering it.(Stannis is my fav but...why are you guys hijacking the thread about Brienne? :frown5: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentwanderer Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 The real issue to me is not which one lost more - arguably Loras lost much more than Brienne or Margaery in this - but that Brienne has already changed her desire for revenge into a quest for life without even notice it herself.Her honor lies no longer into avenge Renly, but to save Jaime: every single one of her POVs has made the point of how important this is to her.I never had a problem with Stannis killing Renly, in war. The problem I've always had was the use of the shadowbaby.To me, the problem is that he killed his baby brother for a petty crown: shadowbaby or sword, Stannis killed his baby brother to size Robert's seat. Deliberately and willingly.That's something I can't be comfortable with, but I don't think its Brienne's place to avenge it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab aeterno Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Ned had a lot more evidence. Stannis never mentioned anything about the Baratheon - Lannister marriages always producing black haired kids.Yet we know he visited Robert's bastards like Ned did. We're not told explicitly that he read the book, though if Jon Arryn read it and was working with Stannis it seems likely that he would have seen it or been told by Jon Arryn. While Ned visiting the bastards was a result of tracking Jon Arryn's progress, Stannis and Jon Arryn would have no reason to be visiting the bastards unless they already had something to look for, it seems to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overlord of Skagos Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 To me, the problem is that he killed his baby brother for a petty crown: shadowbaby or sword, Stannis killed his baby brother to size Robert's seat. Deliberately and willingly.That's something I can't be comfortable with, but I don't think its Brienne's place to avenge it.It was not Robert's seat....by all laws...it was his seat now...and renly was the one trying to kill stannis or anyone to sieze Stannis's seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentwanderer Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 It was not Robert's seat....by all laws...it was his seat now...and renly was the one trying to kill stannis or anyone to sieze Stannis's seat.It still makes it a family feud: Brienne has no place in it.If someone has to avenge Renly it must be part of the family, like Loras or Margaery (by marriage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 LOL, "his capitol city". This really cracked me up.Stannis "felt strongly"? Who cares? What gives him the right to act all righteous and "I am the true king" when he had zero evidence and barely anyone supported his claim?It was his capitol city, or it was jofs capitol city. either way, renly had no right to it and had the kids been roberts stannis would have been fighting against renly and trying to kill him anyway. As for zero evidence, bullshit. He had the evidence of EVERY SINGLE BARATHEON LANNISTER MARRIAGE GOING BACK AGES AS EVIDENCE. I had no intention of starting yet another bloody Renly/Stannis argument. Ooops? :D (lol pls dont be mad with me, im just callin it as i see it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 It was his capitol city, or it was jofs capitol city. either way, renly had no right to it and had the kids been roberts stannis would have been fighting against renly and trying to kill him anyway.As for zero evidence, bullshit. He had the evidence of EVERY SINGLE BARATHEON LANNISTER MARRIAGE GOING BACK AGES AS EVIDENCE. Pity he didn't speak up then.Ooops? :D (lol pls dont be mad with me, im just callin it as i see it)Ha. Not mad, I'm just excitable today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrunderhill Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 It was his capitol city, or it was jofs capitol city. either way, renly had no right to it and had the kids been roberts stannis would have been fighting against renly and trying to kill him anyway.As for zero evidence, bullshit. He had the evidence of EVERY SINGLE BARATHEON LANNISTER MARRIAGE GOING BACK AGES AS EVIDENCE. Ooops? :D (lol pls dont be mad with me, im just callin it as i see it)I agree with this. Stannis was perfectly in his rights to kill Renly. Perhaps if had the stronger forces, then he could have defeated Renly and taken him captive or sent him into exile, but that was not the case.The problem I have with Stannis is that he used dark magic. If say he had sent his best knight to assassinate Jaime then I would have been fine with it. I am not comfortable with the use of such magic.Brienne's love for Renly was always very shallow and pretty sad. She is in love with a man she does not know and has spent very little time with. It's nothing more than a childish crush, made worse by her being 19 or so.I hope Brienne is able to actually grow up and see what Renly was, rather than continue to be blinded by her crush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overlord of Skagos Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 As the TV Galbart Glover says..."Renly is not right!!" :rofl: :lmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 As for zero evidence, bullshit. He had the evidence of EVERY SINGLE BARATHEON LANNISTER MARRIAGE GOING BACK AGES AS EVIDENCE. Stannis had no idea about this. Unless he was lying to Davos when he told him he had no proof besides Edric, and according to you this is impossible, right? :)OK, time to stop because we are getting offtopic. Sorry, WK, I just couldn't resist to tease the Stannis brigade a bit. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickren Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 OT:1--I absolutely do not think Brienne and Stannis will ever cross paths again. One or both will be dead before long. 2--In the unlikely event that they do cross paths, Brienne would absolutely try to kill Stannis, at any personal cost. She swore a holy vow and Brienne is serious about that shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 At the red wedding thousands died, not one person. The red wedding was also betrayal, stannis had sworn nothing to renly. They were enemies and they both knew it.That's not the argument you used, you said it would have been far bloodier. It would have been far bloodier (especially for the Lannister's) if the RW didn't happen. I'll give you that the RW was a betrayal, but it's not like the shadowbaby was some honorable act. Both acts were dishonorable and should be condemned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentwanderer Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 One or both will be dead before longThis is the key to me, both characters Stannis and Brienne are about to face the biggest threat against their lives in the upcoming books...and neither one of those threats is one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lala Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 In Davos' eyes, Stannis is his god. Stannis is his creator who made him from the mud, shit and clay of Flea Bottom, raised him up and made him a lord. Renly did the same to Brienne. He took a misfit, a freak, and raised her to his kingsguard. her world still revolves around Renly. Remember her first thoughts when she saw Gendry. She instinctively saw Renly. if ever their paths cross again, one will die.Oh that's an interesting parallel that hadn't crossed my mind, thank you!I think your letting your dislike of stannis get in the way here. In war, people die. That whole thing could have been far bloodier then it ended up being. And lets be honest, loras and co were in the wrong.Glad we are on the same page brah.Mm~ WK already explained, but it would be because Loras lost the love of his life :leaving: I suppose the same could be argued for Brienne insofar as she was also in love with Renly, but Loras had the mutual happy domestic arrangement filled with Tyrell roses and all~ I do feel for Loras and if he wanted vengeance no matter what I can probably find it more understandable than if Brienne understood the entire why and wherefore and still wanted to kill Stannis.How avenging Renly could be a 'happy' ending? She may get her revenge, but Renly will still be dead. Very dead. I think Brienne may see this at some point. At least I'd like to see her pondering it.(Stannis is my fav but...why are you guys hijacking the thread about Brienne? :frown5: )I don't think it would be a happy ending either~ Rather, I would think it were fairly tragic if one of the most honorable characters (that I love!) in the series ends up killing another of the fairly honorable characters. I'm just curious about whether, if their paths do cross, there is any way around what seems to be an inevitable outcome (one of them dies) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a free shadow Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Now that you mentioned it, I do believe what Stannis did to Renly will prove to be his undoing. :( :commie: :commie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommens Cat Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 What if Brienne convinced LS to spare her due her oath on stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickren Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 This is the key to me, both characters Stannis and Brienne are about to face the biggest threat against their lives in the upcoming books...and neither one of those threats is one another.Yeah they're both in severely dangerous positions and any moves out of those positions are still dangerous. Given their geography alone, I would think it would take GRRM until ADOS to even put them in the same place. Chances they're both still alive by then...severely questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valya of Myr Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I think Brienne and Stannis will meet again, if his claim for the throne continues, it's obvious he'll have to march to King's Landing at some point, and whether she'll be there with Jaime or anywere in Westeros, he would still have to go South, so it's possible they'll see eachother. But I don't think she'll kill him eventually, nor will she try. I know she loved Renly, but I think she'll somehow find it in her heart to leave Stannis be, to ignore him and maybe despise him forever.. but she won't kill him. That's just a feeling I have, but the thread it's interesting :) I even forgot about the promise Catelyn made to Brienne, with all the I'm-looking-for-a-fair-maid-of-three-and-ten thing .__. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2fingers Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 How avenging Renly could be a 'happy' ending? She may get her revenge, but Renly will still be dead. Very dead. I think Brienne may see this at some point. At least I'd like to see her pondering it.(Stannis is my fav but...why are you guys hijacking the thread about Brienne? :frown5: )I never understood this argument.... I never thought anybody wanted revenge for their dearly departed to be literally resurrected. I knew a guy who shot his ex-wife after he found out she killed their son...and he didn't think that by killing his wife it would magically bring back his son. His thinking was "stupid bitch thinks she can kill my only son and get away with it. Bang!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentwanderer Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 This is the key to me, both characters Stannis and Brienne are about to face the biggest threat against their lives in the upcoming books...and neither one of those threats is one another.Yeah they're both in severely dangerous positions and any moves out of those positions are still dangerous. Given their geography alone, I would think it would take GRRM until ADOS to even put them in the same place. Chances they're both still alive by then...severely questionable.Indeed.Just the odds for them to survive, move on to a common place, find each and spare time from their own respective quests to confront are slim to none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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