Dany wouldn't be hated if GRRM had kept the 5-year gap

[Nami]

Jon says "sup."

That's why I said almost.

[Cold Hands Luke]

words are wind, and good intentions are probably farts or something, they aren't of much use at the end of the day especially when playing with people's lives can't feed people with good intentions, can't cure the sick with good intentions, can't bring back the dead with good intentions well maybe thoros can but dany can't.

on a side note if good intentions are farts, does that make the red priests' breath of life actually be rhllor's farts ?

There is always gonna be casualties and the commoners are always gonna feel it the worse. What about all the rebellions from Blackfyre on, started just because I am the rightful ruler, no I am the rightful ruler, total greed. Dany's reasons are the only just, freedom, anti-slavery. Her war isn't over yet, Sorry, I dont fault anyone for trying to free people. Once people are freed, it is up to them to keep it.

[ejhawman]

She would be more polished, more mature and skilled and wise in the ways of the world. But as to readers... haters will hate.

[TorCub Tormundson]

There is always gonna be casualties and the commoners are always gonna feel it the worse. What about all the rebellions from Blackfyre on, started just because I am the rightful ruler, no I am the rightful ruler, total greed. Dany's reasons are the only just, freedom, anti-slavery. Her war isn't over yet, Sorry, I dont fault anyone for trying to free people. Once people are freed, it is up to them to keep it.

There is always gonna be casualties and the commoners are always gonna feel it the worse. What about all the rebellions from Blackfyre on, started just because I am the rightful ruler, no I am the rightful ruler, total greed. Dany's reasons are the only just, freedom, anti-slavery. Her war isn't over yet, Sorry, I dont fault anyone for trying to free people. Once people are freed, it is up to them to keep it.

well from my point of view if your plan is "f*ck them slavers and see what happens" is a shitty plan... dany is a child making the mistakes that a child makes falling from one mess to the next with no real clue of what to do and doing it just because she has dragons that enable her to do whatever she wants.

[Night's Ranger]

This is the second "why does everyone hate Danny" post I've seen in the last couple if days and I have to disagree.

There is a lot of analyzing and second guessing on the forums. And Danny gets as much of it as anyone. But we need to be careful and not confuse dissent with derision. Dany has made a lot if bone head moves, which we analyze to death ere, but I've seen very few people who flat out dislike the character. She has less "in defense of" threads then some of the others but she also needs less. I think people just feel less of a new to defend her.

Also, if you step back from the forums, Danny is crazy popular among the mundanes (yep that's the word I'm going with). I mean, you can go buy a "mother of dragons" shirt in hot topic but can't find a "stanis is the true king" shirt anywhere.

So long story short: I think she is one of the most popular characters among people without a westeroes.org screen name. And I think grrm anticipated that.

he fame is only because TV show made her look like she is some sort of hero.all my friends who read the book and i loved her in GoT but after that she becomes boring.she is like Rand,thinking that everyone must serve them because of the dragons and shit.

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

Her character arc of becoming a conquering queen was already finished at the end of ASOS. The 5-year gap would have brought everyone else up to Dany's level of character development (they would've become who they set out to become,) but it would have been bad for everyone's story except Dany's.

The problem with Dany's arc was that she was too badass too early. She's got the dragons (which are like having nuclear weapons in a medieval society,) she conquered 3 cities before her dragons were grown using guile, and her current goal is freeing slaves, a morally unambiguous position.

Dany needed to have some weakness as well, and it looks like poor decision making and boastfulness is it. So she chooses a terrible lover and a terrible husband, and she declares her titles a bit too loudly. Would you prefer a character with no weaknesses at all?

[Eating My Wings]

What about Jaime and Jon fans, where do they go?

Jon bro fists with Stan, just as Jon fans should with Stan fans. And Jaime fans can dig themselves into a hole, since no one likes them.

[ckal]

I dont hate Dany, I hate Meereen.

While I think applying the five year gap would have helped, the main problem to me is that Danys story could have been summed up in less chapters.

Entirely agree. This can be applied to many parts of AFFC and ADWD in fact, as the main problems I had with these books were that they felt unnecessarily bloated.

[ckal]

I see why GRRM decided upon this 'time killer' of Dany in Meereen to teach her lessons about rule and have the readers witness her actions along the way.

If I had to choose though, what I would have preferred would have been Damy traveling around Essos attempting to increase her army. I wouldn't have minded seeing her settle for part of a book in a city(ies), but places more interesting than Meereen.

[Parwan]

not me, but if you don't know what you're doing you don't do it.

This is not true. Perhaps you mean it not as a fact, but as an admonition: "If you do not know what you are doing, stop and think. Perhaps you should not do anything at present." This is good advice in most circumstances, but it does not always apply. Sometimes one has to act on very limited info, maybe close to no info at all.

Dany makes some bad decisions. All of the characters do. I don't think that, overall, she stands out as a person who doesn't know what she's doing.

especially her! i mean c'mon she's all about "all people are equal bla bla bla"

When did Dany ever say or think that all people are equal? When did anyone in ASoIaF ever say or think that?

but the price of her learning to rule is been paid with the blood of the people she claims to be saving. so in the inmortal words of preston "bodie" broadus that's fucked up!

In war people suffer and die. People you try to save die. People who are fighting against you die. Third parties die...I maintain that the "learning to rule" business is an artifact of pro and anti Dany arguments on threads like the current one. I don't think it is in the text at all. The dragon queen did wonder how she could rule a kingdom if she could not rule a city. That is one hell of a long way from saying, "I need to practice on this place. Then I can take what I learn here to Westeros." It's possible that I missed something. Is there an actual place in the text where Dany says, "I need to practice governing," or "I need to see how ruling works," or something like that?

words are wind, and good intentions are probably farts or something, they aren't of much use at the end of the day especially when playing with people's lives can't feed people with good intentions, can't cure the sick with good intentions, can't bring back the dead with good intentions well maybe thoros can but dany can't.

...

Dany is no more playing with people's lives than is any other character who is trying to gain power. No one's good intentions can feed people. No one's roar, or fire, or honor, or whatever-the-hell can cure the sick. This is one of the points that I have tried to hammer home in many places, especially in a series of threads with the general title of "Systemic Problems." Governance in Westeros sucks. It just purely sucks. It has come to consist of a bunch of guys running around yelling things like, "I am the only Great Big Cheese! All of my milk comes from true-born cows!" Meanwhile, the probability continues to grow that most of the cows, horses, dogs, and people will soon freeze to death or die of starvation. The only "survivors" will have blue eyes.

Thoros does not bring back the dead with good intentions. I believe he'd say that he himself can't bring back the dead at all.

There is a lot of complaining about titles, words, repeated phrases, etc. As far as I can see, not many people on these forums, and probably no people in the seven kingdoms, know what a self-referential statement is. "Words are wind." Is that supposed to be profound? Look carefully. What do you see?

Answer: three words.

[Nictarion]

Well I don't have my books, so no quotes for me, but Dracarys and the Fighting Pit outrank all of those in terms of badassery.

Indeed!!!

[Nictarion]

Dany is the Darkstar of the "main" povs.

and btw fire and blood are chessy not badass top 3 cheesy.

2 of the most untrue statements I've ever seen in my life.

[Zman1863]

In war people suffer and die. People you try to save die. People who are fighting against you die. Third parties die...I maintain that the "learning to rule" business is an artifact of pro and anti Dany arguments on threads like the current one. I don't think it is in the text at all. The dragon queen did wonder how she could rule a kingdom if she could not rule a city. That is one hell of a long way from saying, "I need to practice on this place. Then I can take what I learn here to Westeros." It's possible that I missed something. Is there an actual place in the text where Dany says, "I need to practice governing," or "I need to see how ruling works," or something like that?

That's an important point. Dany doesn't view her time in Meereen as merely experimental. Discussions of "learning to rule" are thematic and structural. AFFC/ADWD are built around the three POV characters who are experimenting with governing. But those discussions don't go to the actual thoughts and goals of the characters themselves. Cersei doesn't think to herself "Now let's see if I can handle the power I've groped for my whole life" and Jon doesn't think "I hope my time as Lord Commander prepares me for some future unexpected leadership role." It might be true that GRRM has pulled a Peter Griffin and told Meereen that it is a "practice kingdom." But the fact that we know Meereen represents a learning experience does not automatically lead to judgments of Dany as a character.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

She wouldn't be hated if KL was never sacked, she would be riding to tourneys being crowned queen of love and beauty, but however that is for another thread.....

[TorCub Tormundson]

2 of the most untrue statements I've ever seen in my life.

the two statements are as truthfull as anything can be. Dany may not be of the night but she is fire and blood and yada yada yada. these two are supposed to be badass in-universe but fail to deliver.

[Groat]

the two statements are as truthfull as anything can be. Dany may not be of the night but she is fire and blood and yada yada yada. these two are supposed to be badass in-universe but fail to deliver.

In the fighting pit Dany describes looking into Drogon's eyes was like looking into hell itself. When Gerold Dayne can look hell in the eyes, then dominate it, he can call himself a badass. Until then, Dany has delivered a thousand times over.

[StannisBamfatheon]

2 of the most untrue statements I've ever seen in my life.

So an opinion is untrue? Got it.

[Garlan Marius]

Daenerys is an imperialist. I dislike her for the same reason I dislike US foreign policy: "We know better than these savages what they need."

[Ser Greg of House House]

Daenerys is an imperialist. I dislike her for the same reason I dislike US foreign policy: "We know better than these savages what they need."

Well, it's not exact the same thing because we're inside her head and we know she doesn't have an ulterior motive (it's not like she needs oil or anything), she truly wants to end slavery. Also slavery is universally seen as a bad thing. Though she is facing a somewhat similar dilemma when things don't go as planned. Though in US foreign policy it's not really a dilemma at all. Everybody knows the whole democracy bit is pure crap.

[TorCub Tormundson]

Daenerys is an imperialist. I dislike her for the same reason I dislike US foreign policy: "We know better than these savages what they need."

i agree.

also the problem with dany is that she doesn't carry a big stick, actually she has the biggest stick on earth (or planetos if you like, i hate the name) but doesn't know how to carry it.