Mladen Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Not always. A good bra or corset will make boobs look like whatever one wants them to look like. As long as the skin hasn't started to wrinkle, even saggy breasts can be made to look firm and perky with a well fitted garment. I'm not really sure what the ladies of Westeros were wearing for their breasts as, iirc, corsets were never mentioned in the text. But I think they certainly had to have been wearing some sort of binding and supportive material for their breasts. Ahem, ahem... Blasphemy... Women need to learn that the only way for us men to know the firmness and perkiness of the breasts is to go topless. JCRB's comment is a small step for this discussion, but huge for all straight men. You know what is the most ironic about all of this. I found at least two things in WOIAF that can be considered as proof (not from my POV, though) for this theory. And OP and supporters missed them completely... One has to enjoy such irony... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Ahem, ahem... Blasphemy... Women need to learn that the only way for us men to know the firmness and perkiness of the breasts is to go topless. JCRB's comment is a small step for this discussion, but huge for all straight men. You know what is the most ironic about all of this. I found at least two things in WOIAF that can be considered as proof (not from my POV, though) for this theory. And OP and supporters missed them completely... One has to enjoy such irony... Don't leave us in suspense--do tell. What is the new information that could be additional evidence (my copy won't arrive until next week so I have to rely on reports from others). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Ahem, ahem... Blasphemy... Women need to learn that the only way for us men to know the firmness and perkiness of the breasts is to go topless. JCRB's comment is a small step for this discussion, but huge for all straight men. You know what is the most ironic about all of this. I found at least two things in WOIAF that can be considered as proof (not from my POV, though) for this theory. And OP and supporters missed them completely... One has to enjoy such irony... Don't leave us in suspense--do tell. What is the new information that could be additional evidence (my copy won't arrive until next week so I have to rely on reports from others). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Don't leave us in suspense--do tell. What is the new information that could be additional evidence (my copy won't arrive until next week so I have to rely on reports from others). Well, you all have to read it and find for yourselves... I don't consider it as proofs, but you all might... But, I will never facilitate your job, that's certain :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faydra Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Why would Aerys be commenting on her breasts unless he had previously seen them and then seen them again recently? He remarks how they are not what they once were, meaning he saw them back then (262-265) and has seen them now (272). Women at court wear corsets, the only way to tell what they (breasts) really look like is in 'the nude'. Trust me I am a fit technician for lingerie/corsetry and swimwear, this is one area I can speak on with expertise. IIRC it was a question not a comment. If you truly want secret Targs you could make a better case with the twins. Even if it doesn't add much to the plot, there are at least some speculations about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 Well, you all have to read it and find for yourselves... I don't consider it as proofs, but you all might... But, I will never facilitate your job, that's certain :) I honestly am waiting to get home to read. Everything I have posted is based on other people posting quotes from the book. Many have messaged me these quotes as they would know I am interested. I plan on reading fully tonight, so will post any further hints tomorrow that I find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 IIRC it was a question not a comment. If you truly want secret Targs you could make a better case with the twins. Even if it doesn't add much to the plot, there are at least some speculations about it. Want secret Targs? Buddy I dont think you have read many of my posts. I say over and over that there is only 1 secret Targaryen in these books and that's Jon. Tyrion is a bastard, not the same thing at all, and it's not a 'secret'. Ned and Howland have specifically kept Jon's parentage a secret all these years. It sounds to me, based on WOIAF, that none of this shit between Joanna and Aerys was a secret, he is talking about her breasts over dinner, groping her on her wedding night in front of everyone, commenting that he married the wrong woman to enough people to get it printed by Yandel. Nope this is no secret, it's just that everyone who knew about it is dead already. Tywin told Tyrion the truth with his dying words, but Tyrion had no idea that it was even a possibility that Aerys was his father, obviously no one has ever told him the rumors, so he didn't give Tywin's last words a second thought. I think it's obvious why Tywin would never tell anyone. But I dont want anything in these books, except whatever GRRM has in store, I just accept them as they come out. No no, I would say if there is any want going on here. It is Targaryen-haters not wanting any other characters to be associated with the house of dragonlords that they hate so much. Many such posters have already admitted this today on the Aerys + Joanna threads, that they 'wish this wasn't true'. It's funny to me because I picked up on A+J= T on first read-through but did not pick up on R+L=J until one of my friends told me about it, the same person who recommended this forum to me. Which is one of the reasons I believe there are more hints towards this theory than that one. I simply call 'em like I see 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 The thread title: What happened to make Aerys lose respect for Tywin? The current discussion in the thread: Saggy breasts of Joanna. Aerys: Dude, you ruined them! GTFO, you are no longer my Hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrow spoiler Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 well put together and very thought provoking! you get my vote! OP :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 Well, you all have to read it and find for yourselves... I don't consider it as proofs, but you all might... But, I will never facilitate your job, that's certain :) LOL. Ok been reading a few hours. If you are referring to the fact that by naming Jaime to the Kingsguard, that Aerys was essentially naming his own bastard as heir to Casterly Rock, then yeah I am right there with you. I honestly cannot believe I never thought of that before. And the fact that Aerys became convinced Rhaella was cheating, and he saw Joanna give birth to healthy twins, and the fact that Rhaella had so many miscarriages and stillbirths. He notably says that he 'married the wrong woman'. Heavily hints that he would try to score with Joanna again. There are a ton more hints, I can't wait to start a new thread in the WOIAF section. But it wont be this weekend, partying in Denver for Halloween and will have no time for typing. well put together and very thought provoking! you get my vote! OP :agree: Thanks a lot! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Where was it written that Tyrion preferred to bathe in water that was hotter than others preferred? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Where was it written that Tyrion preferred to bathe in water that was hotter than others preferred? My mistake--I was going from memory and was confused on that one (I think it might have been said about Dany--not Tyrion). Sorry for the mistake on that one point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 My mistake--I was going from memory and was confused on that one (I think it might have been said about Dany--not Tyrion). Sorry for the mistake on that one point. yeah Dany, I think twice. UnmaskedLurker, What do you think about my above post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 yeah Dany, I think twice. UnmaskedLurker, What do you think about my above post? I think you are right on. I also saw in the WoIaF forum the following spoiler (going from memory, so might have it a bit off): Apparently the book has information about Aerys stopping his affairs after he has a deformed still born child. That was put in juxtaposition to Aerys thinking Tywin deserved a deformed monstrosity earlier when Tyrion was born. Those quotes of Aerys, taken together, also seem to support Aerys as Tyrion's father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble Maester Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 From all the new material it seems thatAerys, besides being mad as a coo-coo, was merely an envious asshole. E: decided to spoiler because much new information :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 From all the new material it seems that Aerys, besides being mad as a coo-coo, was merely an envious asshole. E: decided to spoiler because much new information :| I agree, It does seem that Aerys was insanely jealous of the steadfastness of Tywin. Tywin was clearly very smart and capable, had a wife who could give him children......Aerys was quite envious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeethGrinder Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Not reading through the whole thread yet but Tyrion is too much like Tywin IMO. He's also constantly having his characteristics compared with Tywin to the point where Jaime is dismissed entirely as inheriting those traits - "You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg, and there's some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak... but Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you." - Why put that in if we're they're not even related? Their relationship (Tywin/Tyrion) is/was one of the most fascinating aspects of the story and I think it would be tainted somewhat if it was all based on a lie. To me it's simply a foreshadowing of where he's destined to end up rather than where he's from. Brilliant theory though and it really makes me think, very solid stuff to back it up but I just don't see it - Maybe out of hope more than anything. But particularly with Jon emerging as a secret Targ - It's much too quickly. If both were to be revealed I think one would have been by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 LOL. Ok been reading a few hours. If you are referring to the fact that by naming Jaime to the Kingsguard, that Aerys was essentially naming his own bastard as heir to Casterly Rock, then yeah I am right there with you. I honestly cannot believe I never thought of that before. And the fact that Aerys became convinced Rhaella was cheating, and he saw Joanna give birth to healthy twins, and the fact that Rhaella had so many miscarriages and stillbirths. He notably says that he 'married the wrong woman'. Heavily hints that he would try to score with Joanna again. There are a ton more hints, I can't wait to start a new thread in the WOIAF section. But it wont be this weekend, partying in Denver for Halloween and will have no time for typing. Of course not, Suzanna... LOL... I meant shady clues for him being Aerys' son, not some made-up conjectures by the fans. Also, the second part is more a differentiation between two women, given children they were giving births to... As Dr.P said, we now at least know that something was going on between these two before the marriage to Tywin. We know that Aerys was enamored with her, and I agree that he would try it, but alas, simply, humiliation in front of her children leaves, at least to me, no space for anything happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Of course not, Suzanna... LOL... I meant shady clues for him being Aerys' son, not some made-up conjectures by the fans. Also, the second part is more a differentiation between two women, given children they were giving births to... As Dr.P said, we now at least know that something was going on between these two before the marriage to Tywin. We know that Aerys was enamored with her, and I agree that he would try it, but alas, simply, humiliation in front of her children leaves, at least to me, no space for anything happening. Unless the humiliation happened the next day after they slept together. Aerys may have seduced her and then tossed her aside after proving he could have her one more time. Wouldn't that explain the insulting remark in front of the twins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 Unless the humiliation happened the next day after they slept together. Aerys may have seduced her and then tossed her aside after proving he could have her one more time. Wouldn't that explain the insulting remark in front of the twins? Aerys was obviously just jealous and trying to bring the couple down from their happiness of the healthy twins. Aerys was bitter and mean. But after everything I read and all the shit Aerys put Tywin through. Tywin was steadfast, he never quit on aerys no matter what Aerys did or said, and he said a lot of shit about TYwin, like non-stop shit-talker. So why would TYwin all of a sudden resign as hand because of one comment about Joanna's breasts? No NO NO, that makes no sense at all, for Tywin to resign, something hella serious had to happen. Like Aerys having his guards grab Joanna out of her bed and take her to the kings chambers for sex. What did Jaime say about Rhaella? "Isn't it our job to protect her?" "It's our job to protect her from everyone accept him." Same thing would apply to his Hand's wife, or anyones wife for that matter. Kings can do what they want to women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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