[TWoW Spoilers] Worldcon reading: second Tyrion chapter

[honeyed chicken]

The death of major characters like Tyrion only happens in GRRM when there's a lot at stake in their deaths. Ned's death tore the kingdom apart, resulting in the War of Five Kings. Robb's death ended the War of Five Kings, but mixed insult with injury to the North.

Even Pycelle and Kevan weren't killed until the maximum amount of impact could be felt from their deaths. Balon's death shook the Ironborn up, enabling Euron to reach out to Dany. And Jon's fate at the Wall is so dicey precisely because it's a patented GRRM time for him to die.

But what's at stake if Tyrion dies in the Battle of Meereen? Nothing but his own potential. If Tyrion ever dies, you can bet it will be as Dany's Hand at the worst possible moment, or in some crucial role like that. I don't see Tyrion being in a position like that until the last book.

Thanks for your OP on Tyrion 2 - most interesting of the leaked chapters of WOW imo.

Wrt Tyrion's potential death, your points make sense and numerous people have made similar ones to me. The idea of Tyrion as hand & dragon counselor to Dany is so tantalizing I can almost taste it . . .

which is why I doubt it will come to pass. This story doesn't go like that.

But I hope I'm wrong.

[The Crow's Third Eye]

Yes they seem to be catapults/ trebuchets, they are tossing corpses of pale mare victims into the city.

Wicked Sisters are GRRM shout out to Scott Lynch author of "The Gentleman Bastards" series. One of the protagonists, Jean Tannen, is armed with a matching pair of

fighting hatchets named " The Wicked Sisters".

I thin Wicked Sister is a specific trebuchet. There were six and I am almost almost almost certain that Tyrion mentions that one is called Wicked Sister :)

[King Zee]

Dany has already learned the essentials of riding Drogon. I think by the time she meets Tyrion she won’t need him to teach her dragonriding.

riding not steering. She cant make Drogon go where she wants to go.

[Roughspun]

When she laid the whip across Drogon’s right side he veered right, for a dragon’s first instinct is always to attack. Sometimes it did not seem to matter where she struck him, though; sometimes he went where he would and took her with him.

[mbuehner]

Perhaps Dragons aren't entirely trainable? I'm not sure what knowledge Tyrion could have that Dany hasnt developed working with her dragons for months and flying around the Grass Sea... unless its something along the lines of the dragon horns.

[kjm16216]

Tyrion's part to play is as the queen's hand. Danerys has continually suffered from her own inexperience and the lack of able, trustworthy counselors. That's why Varys sent Tyrion to her, and why he cant die unless its very near the end.

and talk of him as a Targ is absurd. Tywin would have fed him to the lions before raising a dwarf as his own if he was not.

[Ignacia]

Yeah, I think Tyrion will probably be more helpful in politics. What about that maester that was travelling to see her, though? Wasn't he studying magic? Maybe he will be able to help her a bit with the dragons.

[Gordias]

The death of major characters like Tyrion only happens in GRRM when there's a lot at stake in their deaths. Ned's death tore the kingdom apart, resulting in the War of Five Kings. Robb's death ended the War of Five Kings, but mixed insult with injury to the North.

Even Pycelle and Kevan weren't killed until the maximum amount of impact could be felt from their deaths. Balon's death shook the Ironborn up, enabling Euron to reach out to Dany. And Jon's fate at the Wall is so dicey precisely because it's a patented GRRM time for him to die.

But what's at stake if Tyrion dies in the Battle of Meereen? Nothing but his own potential. If Tyrion ever dies, you can bet it will be as Dany's Hand at the worst possible moment, or in some crucial role like that. I don't see Tyrion being in a position like that until the last book.

I agree with this very much. Tyrion's like to die at some point, I'd be very surprised if he lived the series out: but it will probably be just as life comes back together again, serving as Dany's hand or Master of Coin or some other important position.

[Gordias]

The death of major characters like Tyrion only happens in GRRM when there's a lot at stake in their deaths. Ned's death tore the kingdom apart, resulting in the War of Five Kings. Robb's death ended the War of Five Kings, but mixed insult with injury to the North.

Even Pycelle and Kevan weren't killed until the maximum amount of impact could be felt from their deaths. Balon's death shook the Ironborn up, enabling Euron to reach out to Dany. And Jon's fate at the Wall is so dicey precisely because it's a patented GRRM time for him to die.

But what's at stake if Tyrion dies in the Battle of Meereen? Nothing but his own potential. If Tyrion ever dies, you can bet it will be as Dany's Hand at the worst possible moment, or in some crucial role like that. I don't see Tyrion being in a position like that until the last book.

I agree with this very much. Tyrion's like to die at some point, I'd be very surprised if he lived the series out: but it will probably be just as life comes back together again, serving as Dany's hand or Master of Coin or some other important position.

[Howie Manderly]

You people do realize if you skip chapters you're going to have absolutely massive plot holes right? :eek:

[aFeastForDragons]

Tyrion is grrm's favorite character. He will live to see the end for that reason alone

+1

We all know not everyone will survive the series but Tyrion will definitely survive. Only way he dies is sitting on a comfy couch drinking himself to death in Casterly Rock surrounded by beautiful women.

[KingHodorTargaryen]

+1

We all know not everyone will survive the series but Tyrion will definitely survive. Only way he dies is sitting on a comfy couch drinking himself to death in Casterly Rock surrounded by beautiful women.

At the age of eighty.

[Urien the Ragged]

Jorah is going to wind up saving Dany in some way.

[The Grey Wolf]

Or maybe he ends up a corpse covered in hair. Seriously though, someone we know and care about to a certain extent [Tyrion, Barristan, Jorah, Victarion, etc.] has to die. Its the biggest battle in the series yet, not to mention we're nearing the end [unless--god forbid--Martin decides to extend the series to eight books].

[kjm16216]

I see Jorah dying while saving Dany. He has to end or he will end up with eternal unrequited love. He dies spectacularly, with all forgiven with Dany.

Victorian too, probably. The bigger question here is who is lord of the iron born when Dany sits the iron throne? V? Neuron? Sasha? Theon? Other? Figure that out and assume everyone else on that list is dead.

Barristan never wanted to do anything but protect the king/queen. Likely he'll die doing it. However with him and Jorah dead, she's left with no kings guard she would trust.

[John Reynolds]

The only way Tyrion survives to the end of ADoS is if he really is Aerys' by-blow via rape; otherwise he pays the price of fratricide.

[fehler]

Patricide, you mean. Fratricide would be if he killed his brother.

[John Reynolds]

D'oh! Big words make Hodor's head hurt. :)

[total1402]

I agree with what a few people have already said. There are too many chapters being put into an introductory fight to Winds of Winter. Just think how any chapters were put into the Battle of the Fist to get the ball rolling in ASOS? We still need the real threat to emerge in the form of the Voltanese and yet it takes two Tyrion chapters to establish that the Second Sons defect? Something which we already knew was going to happen in the previous book. This seems like Martin wanting to vindicate ADWD by putting a lot of effort into explaining how all the stuff he set up is going to play out in minute detail.

Don't get me wrong. The barristan, tyrion and vic chapters aren't on his website so could be edited or merged later in writing process since they're not finalized. However is indicitive that resolving the hanging threads of AFFC/ADWD will be a huge preoccupation of Winds of Winter.

A lot of people are pointing at the horn being the big spoiler for the feel good moment here. But personally I think it is going to be the Volantine fleets arrival. I think its mentioned at one point that they have 300-500 ships and Vic is clearly scared of them. He is relying on getting those dragons and getting out fast in order to avoid fighting them. Since Dany isn't there and the dragons probs won't follow him I suspect that he will find his fleet trapped by the Volts in the bay. Most of the Iron Fleet will get wiped out and only some will escape. Vic has just got himself trapped just like he did at Fair Isle by Stannis because of his ambition. Their arrival could very well also make the slavers rally and even the sellswords change sides (again) forcing everyone else back to the city. Tyrion and Jorah will have to either escape or risk being taken captive.

Basically I imagine it will look like the battle is being won and then we have a "Longest Day" moment when the Voltanese armada arrives and the horn doesn't work for Vic. Moq probably knows this and has led Vic to his doom to neutralize Eurons plans.

:D First blood for the Bear.

[Brother Seamus]

At the age of eighty.

i think we all recall Tyrion's own vision of his death, when he first met the mountain clans. it involved wine, a whore and her mouth.

I predict he lives to end of the books.