Real entitlement: the story of "Help me save 300"

[Robin Of House Hill]

So am I to take it that everyone else posting in this thread has been a victim of burglary? I'd been reliabaly informed that burglary in the US is next to non existant, because ya'll have guns and know how to use em....

It's so hard to shoot someone burglarizing your home, when you aren't there. Was burglarized twice.

[all swedes are racist]

Most people are able to put themselves in a home-owner's shoes more easily than a burglar's shoes, which is why we have little sympathy for criminals. Most of us can imagine coming home to find our homes wrecked, but not going to a party and shitting on the coffee table. That's why we have little sympathy for these teen-aged hooligans.

I was a shitty little hooligan for nearly as long as I've been a home owner (or renter in this case), so I can very easily put myself in their shoes, and to be honest that is why I have so little sympathy for these kids

[Quoth]

Here's a link to a story about the first arrests:

http://www.huffingto..._n_4000161.html

It is not clear to me from this whether or not the four who did come forward will be charged or not.

I would like to point out that the six so far charged are not all charged with exactly the same thing. Some of the discussion on this thread has seemed to assume that everyone who was at the party would be charged with a felony. That was never likely to be the case. There are certainly going to be different degrees of legal culpability and the consequences will be more severe for those who either organized the party or stole something than for those who were just there.

I'm a little surprised they weren't all charged with the highest applicable offenses. I expected the plea bargan strategy of seeking to roll them over on others who were unable to be readily identified.

[TerraPrime]

They just need the names of the people, then get a phone dump, and sort through the text msg and twitters and facebooks, to find the instigators. Probably take a ffew weeks, but the info should be all there.

Also:

PK:

Yes, underaged drinking is typically not prosecuted, provided they didn't do any harm.

In this case, harm *was* done, to the tune of property damage.

Further, let us not forget that the trespassers and vandals were given an opportunity to make amends by the victim. They pissed on that chance, and then for good measure, shat on it, as well. At this point, they deserve no lenience whatsoever. When they rejected the first offer of lenience (no prosecution - simply come clean up) in such a spectacularly ungrateful manner, then they do not deserve a second dose of lenience. You spit on the food, you don't get to have another plate.

[Guy Kilmore]

I am a little surprised at the statement that Underage Drinking is rarely prosecuted. I think it depends a ton on age and location, because I see it getting prosecuted all the time with clients on my case load.

[thecryptile]

It's such a common offense that even if they are only charging a small minority of offenders, there is still a large number of cases. I think it's fair to say that the majority of under-age drinkers are never charged or prosecuted.

[Penguin king]

Not sure what guns has to do with it, but anyone who has been the victim of burglary or know someone how has, or for anyone else really, the brats where shown leniency and had a great opportunity to make amends.

This is not to say that kids can't make mistakes, I think everyone can agree that we've all done some dumb shit when we were teenagers/young adults. However, upon being caught (or upon being caught publishing the evidence on social media) and given the chance to make amends, the moral impetus is on the teenagers, don't you think?

*They* are the ones who are being shown leniency and understanding in this case, and *they* are given a moral choice. Make amends, and you'll be forgiven and this will all be forgotten. Do you find the opportunity given an ungenerous one? What offer should have been made instead?

The thing is, i'm not sure he ever said that they would be forgiven if they came forward. There was no mention of him not pressing charges on on anyone who showed up to help clean up it was just implied. Without some guarantee of amnesty, then it's no surprise that only a handfull bothered to make an appearance.

Although I;ve never been a victim of burglary myself, I was stolen from at school, and my Grandparents were burgled a couple of times in the mid 90s. All though it was hardly a nice experience to go through, I can't honestly believe that the world would be a better place had the classmates who stole from me received criminal records, and although unpleasant, the burglaries my grandparents suffered really didn't have that much of a negative impact on their lives in the long run. Their insurance covered most of their losses, and after the second time they increased their security and they were never burgled again. My grandad died in 2002, but my grandmother still lives in the same house, alone and in her 80s. The burglers were never caught, but somehow that doesn't bother me.

[Eponine]

Although I;ve never been a victim of burglary myself, I was stolen from at school, and my Grandparents were burgled a couple of times in the mid 90s. All though it was hardly a nice experience to go through, I can't honestly believe that the world would be a better place had the classmates who stole from me received criminal records, and although unpleasant, the burglaries my grandparents suffered really didn't have that much of a negative impact on their lives in the long run. Their insurance covered most of their losses, and after the second time they increased their security and they were never burgled again. My grandad died in 2002, but my grandmother still lives in the same house, alone and in her 80s. The burglers were never caught, but somehow that doesn't bother me.

Should people be prosecuted because of how much of a negative impact they had on someone's life in the long run? My house was trashed by a renter who stole things from me as well. Most of the things he stole were things I left in the house because they didn't have a large amount of financial value, although he also stole about $1000 in furniture. The things he stole included something that was my grandfather's that my family gave me after he died, as well as something that was my mother's father that she gave me even though I didn't know him before he died. Because I lost my job at this same time, the roughly $15000 of damage and theft have put me in debt, I'm one step ahead of being foreclosed on, and I've been in therapy I can't afford for depression I can't get rid of since this happened. This has been having a hugely negative impact on my life, now and for as far as I can see in the future, since my credit which was nearly perfect went to shit. I'm not sure that any of that should matter. The person in the OP can easily afford to have his house fixed. A person who started in a worse situation than where I was might have had to declare bankruptcy. Should that change anything?

[Maithanet]

Sorry to hear you're going through a tough time Ep :grouphug:

To answer your question, it probably shouldn't change anything, but it usually does.

[Penguin king]

The person in the OP can easily afford to have his house fixed. A person who started in a worse situation than where I was might have had to declare bankruptcy. Should that change anything?

I kinda think so yeah. If my grandparents had been poorer, and hadn't been covered by insurance, then the things that were stolen from them would have impacted their lives a lot more. I can see why the law takes a more rigid veiw, as it's hard to legislate based on subjective worth, but moraly speaking I do feel that it should be a consideration. Are criminals punished because of the effect they have on our economy or the effect they have on other people's lives?

[TheRaggedWildling]

Theft is theft. A crime is a crime, and a criminal should not be punished less just because the victim can "afford" being burglarized/vandalized more than someone else.

[TerraPrime]

The thing is, i'm not sure he ever said that they would be forgiven if they came forward. There was no mention of him not pressing charges on on anyone who showed up to help clean up it was just implied. Without some guarantee of amnesty, then it's no surprise that only a handfull bothered to make an appearance.

Why should it matter whether he has a written promise to not pursue charges? It's the ethically right thing to do, to come back and help clean up the damage you caused.

[Castel]

Why should it matter whether he has a written promise to not pursue charges? It's the ethically right thing to do, to come back and help clean up the damage you caused.

Well, I imagine that most parents would avoid an admission of guilt and hope to hide in the masses instead of jumping up and taking responsibility. Ethics has a bad track record against self-interest.

[Tetrarch42]

While i don't wish to excuse the actions of these delinquents or their litigious (and stupid) parents I feel there may be more to this story than meets the eye. This page http://www.tmz.com/2...osure-new-york/ suggests that the house was dilapidated and neglected well before this break in and the house was set to foreclose regardless.

I don't condone the teenager's actions, but Holloway may be playing this for his own advantage.

[Penguin king]

Why should it matter whether he has a written promise to not pursue charges? It's the ethically right thing to do, to come back and help clean up the damage you caused.

Because it wouldn't be the ethically right thing for him to do, to make a big deal about giving the teens a chance to make ammends, then hit them with court cases once they'd done so. Especially when he's the one making a big deal about trying to instill some moral character into these kids

While i don't wish to excuse the actions of these delinquents or their litigious (and stupid) parents I feel there may be more to this story than meets the eye. This page http://www.tmz.com/2...osure-new-york/ suggests that the house was dilapidated and neglected well before this break in and the house was set to foreclose regardless.

I don't condone the teenager's actions, but Holloway may be playing this for his own advantage.

Well it was clear he was playing it for his own advantage right from the start. The whole appeal was designed to provoke symapthy and earn him money through donations. I'm suprised about the house being abandoned though. You'd have thought that would have come out a lot sooner.

[slothman92]

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9893855/brian-holloway-house

[BLU-RAY]

Just came here to post that. What a thoroughly weird story.

[DanteGabriel]

Yeah, it's clear there's something odd going on with Holloway. He had a pretty disastrous Fox News interview too, at some point.

I still think the kids who partied in the house are rotten little shits and their parents are rotten big shits.

[Datepalm]

Dunno. I kind of get the parents here. Or, at least, I get what I would feel under those circumstances. If I - or my kid - had committed a crime, i'd want them to be punished for it, but not...well, chastized and moralized to. That's weird. That's...personal. Commit crime>get punished by society. I'd like to think i'm fine with that, even for myself or for my hypothetical spawn. I would be ok sending Hypothetical Spawn off to court...I don't feel ok sending Spawn off to some guy, to participate in a public...patronly lesson-teaching, civilizing mission, publicity stunt, personal crusade, white man's burdenesque attempt to bring back good old values of hard work and personal responsibility or this delightful narrative of the delinquent kids who a kindly mentor gives one more chance and sets their lives right or whatever the fuck is going on.

That isn't to say that I don't think whathisname isn't acting in perfectly good faith, just that I don't know that I want personal good faith interjecting itself into crime and punishment. Yeah, it sounds good and warm and community and looking your fellow man in the eye and all that, and maybe it works in some perfect Aw Shuks small town America of the good old days or whatever, but in practice I'll take my justice alienated and anonymous, thank you very much.