US Politics: the eternal Teahad

[danm_999]

ETA: And I guess the more optimistic analysis is that the GOP is giving up on the debt ceiling fight, and its only a matter of time before they give up on the shutdown fight.

At the least, I've got to imagine the Tea Party faithful would see their moderate brethren compromising on the debt ceiling, which many of them either don't understand or believe the seriousness of anyway, as a treasonous action. From there, is there any chance of mending things internally?

But if you don't bend, you break. A very interesting corner the GOP seems to have put themselves into here.

They've bet the farm on this shutdown. But they seem to be on the losing side of the public opinion polls, they seem to have burnt several traditional bridges of support along the way like the US Chamber of Commerce, and some of the ambiguous and ambivilent comments from House Republicans; like Congressman Stutzman's “We have to get something out of this. And I don’t know what that even is" seems to indicate they've failed to adhere to that most basic of Sun Tzu's maxims of avoiding going to war first, and then seeking somehow, in some vague way, to win.

[awesome possum]

Hahahaha.

I wanted to get back the idea of the Dems as the "free stuff party". It seems to me that the various tax benefits and lax regulations offered by Republicans to businesses also qualifies as "free stuff"?

No, see, Republicans prefer to give out free stuff to rich people and people who have "pulled themselves up by their bootstraps." They've earned free stuff.

Guys, defaulting totally isn't a big deal. I forgot to pay my credit card a few months ago and they didn't even call me for like 3 days! I'm sure government finances work the same way.

That's true! I remember my cousin a few years back got into a bad car wreck, shattered his hip, and couldn't work. He got his student loan payments reduced to nothing until he was back to work. So in order to avoid paying our debt, we just need to drive the car into a tree!

[Fez]

Mitch McConnell to save the day?

Behind the scenes, the Kentucky Republican is gauging support within the Senate GOP Conference to temporarily raise the debt ceiling and reopen the government in return for a handful of policy proposals. Among the ideas under serious consideration are a repeal of medical device tax in the health care law, a plan to verify that those seeking subsidies under Obamacare prove their income level and a proposal to grant additional flexibility to federal agencies to implement sequestration cuts.

I don't know if Democrats would go for the medical device tax repeal, since that's still a concession. But the income verification is part of the ACA already, it was just delayed for a year by HHS due to technical issues (and people caught lying after-the-fact have to repay the subsidies), and the additional flexibility on sequestration is something Democrats straight up want (if they can't get the sequestration repealed).

I also don't know if the House GOP can go along with this; the immigration bill had a lot of Senate GOP support and it hasn't gone anywhere. On the other hand, this fight is doing a lot more immediate and visible damage to the GOP.

If nothing else, its interesting that McConnell sees this fight as so damaging that he's willing to look for a deal despite being primaried. I wonder if he's seen some internal polling that he's losing badly in the general election right now.

[Inigima]

Mitch McConnell to save the day?

I don't know if Democrats would go for the medical device tax repeal, since that's still a concession. But the income verification is part of the ACA already, it was just delayed for a year by HHS due to technical issues (and people caught lying after-the-fact have to repay the subsidies), and the additional flexibility on sequestration is something Democrats straight up want (if they can't get the sequestration repealed).

How does this help us? Doesn't it still legitimize minority extortion as a part of the process?

[TerraPrime]

Yup. New donor rules have made the GOP incapable of controlling funding within the party. The Tea Party is an insurgency and the GOP is scared shitless of it. That's why they can control the way the party votes in the House despite not having enough members or support to oust Boehner. They can't replace the leadership, but leadership can't control them.

In some ways, they are as paralyzed as they are making Congress.

Which is what many of us had said about Citizens United and predicted that this is the sort of stuff that would happen. Money is political power, so when our society has a structural mandate for unequal income distribution, we have a default inequality in power, which goes against the idea of a democracy. In principle, each person has one vote and we all look like we have equal power, but this is not true in practice, because one can campaign for one's causes. And it is in this arena that the difference in power/money is amplified. When organizations like the Chamber of Commerce is being edged out by two billionaires' concerted effort to influence the GOP, it shows just how much effort is needed to counteract these influence. Put that in perspective against the power of a household with median income and limited disposable income for political donations and it's starkly clear how our system does not incentivize participation.

[DanteGabriel]

Sometimes a blind squirrel finds a nut, a stopped clock is right twice a day, and the sun occasionally shines on a dog's ass. Which is my way of saying that I hope that the professional asshole Erick Erickson is right about this:

"This comes at the same time the Obama administration admits it will be months before their Obamacare website will be fixed and Kathleen Sebelius is saying if people want out of the mandate they can pay a fine," Erickson wrote. "Nonetheless, Cantor, Boehner, and with them Mitch McConnell and John Cornyn are expected to cave in and fully fund, unimpeded, Obamacare."

Erickson wrote that those leaders "will ensure that Obamacare is fully funded and give the American public no delay like businesses have."

"In doing so, they will sow the seeds of a real third party movement that will fully divide the Republican Party," he added.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/erick-erickson-predicts-real-third-party-movement-to-divide-gop

Please, Teahadis, secede from the Republican Party. I understand your rage -- they have been giving you lip service while abandoning your (admittedly incoherent) goals, since at least the regime of Bush the Lesser. Go make a party for yourselves that will advocate all the 18th century social policies you crave. It will be well funded, thanks to the Kochs.

[TerraPrime]

Go make a party for yourselves that will advocate all the 18th century social policies you crave. It will be well funded, thanks to the Kochs.

Perhaps. But I think that the Koch brothers may not be as eager to fund the Tea Party if they officially split off and become cut off from the power current that the GOP provides. I see the Koch brothers as pragmatists and not idealogues - they are leveraging the Tea Party to gain control of the GOP. If Tea Party splits, they lose the leveraging power, and thus its value as a cattle prod.

[Hereward]

From an outside perspective, it kind of looks like you are driving the car into a tree.. :leaving:

Nah, it's a bus. And we're all on board.

[The Iceman of the North]

Same goes for save the world crusaders like the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Since 1994 it's provided $23 billion in grants. The US non-military foreign aid budget was $31.7 billion in 2011. In Europe the EU aid budget is about EUR 60 Billion

There's nothing in existence with the spending power of the public policy purse. Private development/aid organisations have a great feel good factor but they are a mere drop in the bucket of the charitable needs of any society, especially the developing nations.

Then of course, the public purse is a major contributor to private charities (at least in Europe).

[TerraPrime]

Nah, it's a bus. And we're all on board.

Faux Daily Mail Headline: Will GOP brinksmanship impregnate gay Muslims?

[Hereward]

If only Lummel were here. He could do Tea Party/blind squirrel. On a bus.

[Shryke]

Which is what many of us had said about Citizens United and predicted that this is the sort of stuff that would happen. Money is political power, so when our society has a structural mandate for unequal income distribution, we have a default inequality in power, which goes against the idea of a democracy. In principle, each person has one vote and we all look like we have equal power, but this is not true in practice, because one can campaign for one's causes. And it is in this arena that the difference in power/money is amplified. When organizations like the Chamber of Commerce is being edged out by two billionaires' concerted effort to influence the GOP, it shows just how much effort is needed to counteract these influence. Put that in perspective against the power of a household with median income and limited disposable income for political donations and it's starkly clear how our system does not incentivize participation.

And then just think of local elections where the money from other sources is even smaller.

I mean, fuck, one man basically bought North Carolina.

[Shryke]

Nah, it's a bus. And we're all on board.

I think it's more like an SUV with a trailer.

The US is driving themselves into a tree and the rest of us are hitched to them and hoping we get thrown clear in the wreck.

[DanteGabriel]

In case there was any doubt the GOP was rigging circumstances to create a shutdown:

Under normal House rules, according to House Democrats, once that bill had been rejected again by the Senate, then any member of the House could have made a motion to vote on the Senate's bill. Such a motion would have been what is called "privileged" and entitled to a vote of the full House. At that point, Democrats say, they could have joined with moderate Republicans in approving the motion and then in passing the clean Senate bill, averting a shutdown.

But previously, House Republicans had made a small but hugely consequential move to block them from doing it.

Here's the rule in question:

When the stage of disagreement has been reached on a bill or resolution with House or Senate amendments, a motion to dispose of any amendment shall be privileged.

In other words, if the House and Senate are gridlocked as they were on the eve of the shutdown, any motion from any member to end that gridlock should be allowed to proceed. Like, for example, a motion to vote on the Senate bill. That's how House Democrats read it.

But the House Rules Committee voted the night of Sept. 30 to change that rule for this specific bill. They added language dictating that any motion "may be offered only by the majority Leader or his designee."

So unless House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) wanted the Senate spending bill to come to the floor, it wasn't going to happen. And it didn't.

"I've never seen this rule used. I'm not even sure they were certain we would have found it," a House Democratic aide told TPM. "This was an overabundance of caution on their part. 'We've got to find every single crack in the dam that water can get through and plug it.'"

Congressional historians agreed that it was highly unusual for the House to reserve such power solely for the leadership.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/the-house-gop-s-little-rule-change-that-guaranteed-a-shutdown

We're in some kind of vehicle heading for a crash, which may or may not have a trailer attached -- but we know the GOP messed with the brakes.

[Mexal]

In case there was any doubt the GOP was rigging circumstances to create a shutdown:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/the-house-gop-s-little-rule-change-that-guaranteed-a-shutdown

We're in some kind of vehicle heading for a crash, which may or may not have a trailer attached -- but we know the GOP messed with the brakes.

That's crazy. Talk about manufacturing this entire crisis (not that this was in any doubt at all). I wonder why this doesn't get more press.

[Usotsuki]

So it seems they don't want to drive into the next tree and die in a fire, they want to drive into a tree thirty yards down the road because ... er ... er ... sparklepony.

[Merentha]

That's crazy. Talk about manufacturing this entire crisis (not that this was in any doubt at all). I wonder why this doesn't get more press.

Because then whichever news agency reported on this would be "LIBERAL MEDIA!!!" forever, and that doesn't bring in the revenue.

[lokisnow]

but yelling "LIBERAL MEDIA!!!" always brings in the revenue?

[Merentha]

but yelling "LIBERAL MEDIA!!!" always brings in the revenue?

Works for Fox, doesn't it?

[Guest Raidne]

You know what's worse than being $17 trillion in debt? When our creditors think we're not going to pay it back.

Most quotable statement I've read so far. Well said.