US Politics: the eternal Teahad

[Shryke]

How do you know?

It's the Crazification Factor

[Shryke]

Also, this tragic news:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/10/09/3265972/shutdown-means-no-new-beer-from.html

The federal government shutdown could leave America's craft brewers with a serious hangover.

Stores will still offer plenty of suds. But the shutdown has closed an obscure agency that quietly approves new breweries, recipes and labels, which could create huge delays throughout the rapidly growing craft industry, whose customers expect a constant supply of inventive and seasonal beers.

Lynch mob time?

Lynch mob time.

[Fez]

How do you know?

27% was what Keyes got in Obama's senate race. They were both black and both from out-of-state, so eliminate those factors, and Keyes was straight up absolutely insane, but he still got 27% of the vote because he had an R next to his name.

Anyway, now the the talk is that the House might approve a 6 week debt limit extension that won't do anything about the shutdown at all; so I guess they might be going for the very long haul. If they do, I think that's the time to put the screws to the GOP; after its passed the Senate should amend the bill to be longer and end the shutdown and call that the negotiation.

[Shryke]

On the subject of polling:

Noting that the individuals in question may be extremely mentally disturbed or suffering from a serious psychological illness, the nation’s psychiatrists announced Wednesday that they are deeply concerned for the estimated 5 percent of Americans who were found in nationwide polls this week to approve of the U.S. Congress. “With numerous members of Congress refusing to negotiate an end to the shutdown in the face of widespread federal furloughs and a looming deadline to avoid defaulting on government debt, we are extremely concerned for the mental health of those Americans who responded, ‘Yes, we think Congress is doing a good job,’” psychiatrist Dr. Donald Levin said in a press conference this morning, telling reporters that the estimated 15.5 million Americans who approve of Congress are likely “very troubled” citizens who may in fact be experiencing psychotic episodes or delusional thoughts. “We’re not entirely sure who these people are or where they come from—perhaps they are psych ward patients, or unstable recluses living in remote huts on the outskirts of society—but what we do know is that they are extremely disconnected from reality and in need of immediate attention if they are not already receiving it. We need to find these people and get them the help they need before their illnesses get worse.” Psychiatrists added that because a number of mental health services are currently furloughed, many respondents would just have to “sit tight and hang in there” until the shutdown is resolved.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/psychiatrists-deeply-concerned-for-5-of-americans,34163/

[WeirwoodTreeHugger]

Sci-2, on 09 Oct 2013 - 5:52 PM, said:

Hahahaha.

I wanted to get back the idea of the Dems as the "free stuff party". It seems to me that the various tax benefits and lax regulations offered by Republicans to businesses also qualifies as "free stuff"?

Democrats like government services and understand that these services must be paid for with tax revenue and/or borrowing. Republicans like government services, but they don't want to pay taxes. They love borrowing, but only when republicans are in power.

IMO Republicans are the party of free stuff. Their the ones who can't understand why things are shut down during the shutdown. Maybe they thought angels or faeries emerge in the night to run the government. That would explain why government employees are "takers."

[Larkstongue]

It's the Crazification Factor

Ha! I knew there was some logical, scientific basis for our current situation...

[WeirwoodTreeHugger]

Shryke, on 09 Oct 2013 - 5:54 PM, said:

Also, this tragic news:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/10/09/3265972/shutdown-means-no-new-beer-from.html

Lynch mob time?

Lynch mob time.

Nooooo! Is the wine still OK?

[bbstark]

there appear to be many questions regarding approval of Congress circulating about,

NPR has something to say about this:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/10/09/231015154/americans-prefer-hemorrhoids-and-cockroaches-to-congress?utm_content=socialflow&utm_campaign=nprfacebook&utm_source=npr&utm_medium=facebook

[Americans] prefer hemorrhoids, cockroaches and toenail fungus to Congress.... [however] Congress polled better than the Ebola virus, Anthony Weiner and Miley Cyrus.

Congress you beat out Miley! Not bad, Congress, not bad! (actually really bad, get your fucking act together! <rage>)

[Dinsdale!]

Isn't Obama's approval rating hovering somewhere around 38%?

Looks to me no one in the government is very popular.

17 trillion in debt.

When Bush the Horrible left office we were 6 trillion in debt and the Dems were flipping over how deep in debt we were because of "Bush's wars".

Now we have people defending being 17 trillion in debt with some kind of household budget nonsense.

You appear to be comparing Public Debt at the end of Bush with Gross Debt current. Those are different numbers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USDebt.png

These numbers aren't hard to find. In the google age, there is no excuse for this laziness. Here, I'll help you:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=us+public+debt+over+time

[Shryke]

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_05/the_kind_of_people_who_get_eat029555.php

For the last few months, congressional Republicans have fallen into two broad categories when it comes to dealing with the debt ceiling. The first, which includes the GOP leadership in both chambers, believes the debt limit must be raised, and failure to do so would be catastrophic, but this should be nevertheless be held hostage until Democrats give Republicans stuff to make them happy.

The second includes rank-and-file Republicans who simply aren’t very bright, and who are convinced that concepts such as “default” and “full faith and credit” just aren’t a big deal.

This week, we’re starting to see a third group, which is something a hybrid of the first two. This contingent believes a congressionally-created debt crisis would, in fact, be a disaster, but doesn’t believe the deadline is actually the deadline.

A senior administration official told Politico, “These are the kinds of people who get eaten by bears.”

Also:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/10/08/obama_s_shutdown_analogies_a_complete_list_of_the_analogies_president_obama.html

Without further ado, and in no particular order, here's a (no-doubt incomplete) list of all the things Obama either directly or indirectly compared Republicans to this afternoon.

Employees Who Confuse Themselves For Kidnappers
Actual Kidnappers Demanding a Ransom
Half-Kidnappers, Half-Pranksters
Habitual Hostage-Takers With a Flair For Hyperbole
Video Game-Loving Homeowners Who Demand Perks for Paying Their Mortgage
Homeowners Irrationally Choosing to Be Deadbeats
Potential Homebuyers Turned Would-Be Arsonists
Small Business Employees Turned Would-Be Arsonists
Butchers
Children
Children Who Believe in Magic
Children Who Believe In Magic and Maybe Werewolves

[lokisnow]

The first, which includes the GOP leadership in both chambers, believes the debt limit must be raised, and failure to do so would be catastrophic, but this should be nevertheless be held hostage until Democrats give Republicans stuff to make them happy.

There you go, Proof That Republicans are the Party of Free Stuff.

They're also clearly Takers, not Makers.

[WeirwoodTreeHugger]

Shryke, on 09 Oct 2013 - 6:56 PM, said:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_05/the_kind_of_people_who_get_eat029555.php

Video Game-Loving Homeowners Who Demand Perks for Paying Their Mortgage

Also:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/10/08/obama_s_shutdown_analogies_a_complete_list_of_the_analogies_president_obama.html

Is he trying to piss off nerds? It's Jedi mind meldgate all over again!

[lokisnow]

If there's going to be a grand bargain, The democrats should have a list of demands to negotiate with the republicans on reopening the government. Reopening the government ought to be off the table, not subject to negotiation.

Realistically, democrats might be able to tax loopholes closed that Obama's been campaigning on since 2008. We should be aiming for some of the following low hanging fruit. ;)

closing the carried interest loophole

ending tax benefits for offshoring american jobs

enacting tax benefits for repatriating offshored jobs to america

Creating and funding an infrastructure bank

taxing capital gains as income

levying a social security tax on capital gains income

trains

50% tax on capital gains over 10,000,000

78% tax on capital gains over 100,000,000

returning the estate tax to 1999 levels

removing the index to inflation from the estate tax

raising the federal minimum wage

indexing the minimum wage to inflation.

a 10 billion stimulus to endow the Arts

Carbon tax

[Shryke]

Another depression injection coming.

How crazy are these people?

Fucking crazy.

House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan's (R-WI) latest proposals to avert a potential debt crisis made no reference to the Affordable Care Act, an omission that left hardline conservatives miffed.

In an op-ed published Wednesday in the Wall Street Journal, Ryan called for "common-sense reforms of the country's entitlement programs and tax code" to be included in any debt limit deal, but he never explicitly proposed reforms to the health care law. And for that, some on the right used Twitter to throw shade at the 2012 Republican vice presidential nominee.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/conservatives-furious-that-ryan-didn-t-address-obamacare-in-debt-proposals

Coburn said he'd rather have a "managed catastrophe now" than "kick it down the road."

"We can't continue to get an increased limit on our credit card when we're not demonstrating any financial integrity in the way we run our government," he told CNN's Chris Cuomo.

The senator made his point in a more visual way on the Senate floor Tuesday, when he ripped apart a giant poster modeled after a credit card for the U.S. government.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/09/on-debt-ceiling-coburn-calls-for-managed-catastrophe-now/

Sage advice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsMc-IswG3w

[Suttree]

This really highlights how incredibly absurd the GOP position is:

The Senate-passed measure to keep the government operating represents an enormous compromise by progressives to avoid a damaging government shutdown. The Democrat-controlled Senate agreed to temporary funding levels that are far closer to the Republican-controlled House budget plan than they are to the Senate’s own budget for fiscal year 2014. Moreover, this concession is only the latest of many such compromises over the past several years.

The Democrat-controlled Senate passed a continuing resolution, or CR—a temporary funding measure meant to keep the government operating—that would set the relevant funding levels at an annualized total of $986 billion. That’s about $70 billion less than what the Senate endorsed as part of its comprehensive budget plan back in April. But that actually understates the extent of the compromise.

When President Barack Obama first took office in 2009, his budget proposed $1.203 trillion in discretionary spending for FY 2014. The Senate CR is about $216 billion, or nearly 18 percent, lower than that. Actual enacted funding levels for FY 2010, when the Democrats controlled both chambers of Congress, totaled $1.185 trillion in 2014 dollars. The Senate CR is about $200 billion below that, a cut of nearly 17 percent.

After the 2010 midterm elections, the Republican Party took control of the House of Representatives and offered a budget plan that proposed dramatic spending reductions. That plan, authored by House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-WI), envisioned FY 2014 funding levels at $1.095 trillion. Note that the funding in the current Senate-passed CR is about 10 percent less than the levels in the original Ryan budget.

Finally, in August 2011, after a prolonged standoff over the debt limit, President Obama and Congress agreed to cut even more spending than the original Ryan budget demanded. The original spending caps in the 2011 debt limit deal limited funding to $1.066 trillion in FY 2014. The Senate CR accepts a cut of an additional $80 billion, or nearly 8 percent, from that compromise level.

Progressives have repeatedly made significant concessions in order to protect the economy from a series of manufactured crises. Today’s manufactured crisis is no different. The Senate-passed legislation to keep the government open sets funding levels that are even lower than previous compromises. If the Tea Party shuts the government down anyway, it will not be because progressives were inflexible. Just ask House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH)—the compromise incorporated in the Senate CR was originally his idea.

Yeah...totally not willing to negotiate.

[Inigima]

Where is that from?

[Suttree]

Sorry didn't realize I forgot the link. First item on list here:

http://m.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/10/shutdown-debt-ceiling-explained

[Mlle. Zabzie]

If there's going to be a grand bargain, The democrats should have a list of demands to negotiate with the republicans on reopening the government. Reopening the government ought to be off the table, not subject to negotiation.

Realistically, democrats might be able to tax loopholes closed that Obama's been campaigning on since 2008. We should be aiming for some of the following low hanging fruit. ;)

closing the carried interest loophole. THIS IS SUCH A RED HERRING. THE REVENUE RAISED IS MINIMAL. IT IS COMPLETELY SYMBOLIC AND THEY HAVE THUSOFAR FAILED TO PROPOSE A FIX THAT DOESN'T PLAY MERRY HELL WITH SITUATIONS WHERE MOST PEOPLE THINK IT IS OK FOR THE EQUIVALENT OF A CARRY TO GET CAP GAINS. I ACTUALLY DON'T HAVE MUCH OF AN AX TO GRIND HERE OTHER THAN TO BE APPALLED THAT THIS OF ALL THINGS IS AT THE TOP OF YOUR REFORM LIST.

ending tax benefits for offshoring american jobs. YOU KNOW THIS TALKING POINT GETS THROWN AROUND ALL THE TIME AND IT MEANS DIFFERENT THINGS TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE. WHAT IT DOES IS DODGE THE REAL ISSUE WHICH IS THAT OUR CORPORATE TAX SYSTEM IS OUT OF SYNCH WITH THAT OF MOST OF THE REST OF THE DEVELOPED WORLD. THE FOCUS ON TAKING JOBS OFFSHORE WHATEVER THAT MEANS COMPLETELY MISSES THE POINT THAT OUR TAX SYSTEM CURRENTLY CREATES STRING INCENTIVES TO INVERT, WHERE POSSIBLE AND THE PATCHES THEY HAVE TIRED PUTTING IN PLACE ARE INEFFECTUAL AND WILL CONTINUE TO CAUSE US TO LOSE GROUND TO SAY THE UK, WHICH, BTW IS A PRETTY AWESOME HOLDING COMPANY JURISDICTION THESE DAYS.

enacting tax benefits for repatriating offshored jobs to america. SEE ABOVE.

Creating and funding an infrastructure bank. NOT ONE OF MY PRIORITIES BUT I KNOW SOME PEOPLE LIKE THE IDEA.

taxing capital gains as income. YOU MEAN DOING AWAY THE DISTINCTION BTW CAP GAINS AND ORDINARY INCOME AND THAT SHOULD BE FIRST ON THE LIST ON ANY TAX REFORM PROPOSAL (NOTE IT OBVIATES THE NEED FOR YOUR FIRST ENUMERATED POINT)

levying a social security tax on capital gains income THIS WILL COME EVENTUALLY. THEY ALREADY LEVY MEDICARE TAXES ON SUCH INCOME. WE FIRST HAVE TO ABANDON THE FICTION THAT SS IS ANYTHING OTHER THAN A WEALTH TRANSFER.

trains. GOOD LUCK

50% tax on capital gains over 10,000,000. DOESN'T SEEM NECESSARY AND SEEMS LARGELY SYMBOLIC.

78% tax on capital gains over 100,000,000. CONFISCATORY AND ALMOST ENTIRELY SYMBOLIC.

returning the estate tax to 1999 levels.

removing the index to inflation from the estate tax. THAT IS IRRATIONAL.

raising the federal minimum wage

indexing the minimum wage to inflation.

a 10 billion stimulus to endow the Arts. WHY? I SEE NO GOOD REASON TO HAVE GOVERNMENT SPONSORED ARTS PERIOD.

Carbon tax

Thoughts in caps in the quote (on phone and quoting wonky).

[karaddin]

By doing your comments in caps for the sake of distinction you sound a lot angrier than I think you are :p

[sologdin]

so, point of default threat is to raise t-bill rates to punitive levels. defaulters load up on same, &c.?

the whole thing is like dune: koch brothers as baron, hold out the beast rabban, boehner, to universal hatred, bring in feyd-ruatha ryan with new plan to get the spice flowing again?