NFL- Week Six: How High A Spread at Mile HIgh

[Jace, Extat]

I dunno man. Manning has already said that he really dislikes playing his brother. I could easily see him lacking the killer instinct against his former club, or at least not wanting to embarrass anybody. No need to give him any more reasons to go for the throat.

I think he's going to put on a show, and that he was always going to put on a show.

Not to defend Irsay after I called him a drunken shitheel's idiot kid, but isn't the failure to find/develop talent more on Bill Polian (whom I also loathe)? And isn't the lack of FA activity because of all the years they had a top-heavy team with a ton invested in skill players, with Peyton's huge contracts and big contracts for his favorite toys like Harrison, Wayne, and Edge James?

Actually, Peyton Manning adjusted his contract in 2007 so that the Colts could save $8.2 million in cap space. Only like 6 years before anyone else that I know of (Tommy) was enough of a team player to do that.

Reggie Wayne's largest contract (signed in 2006) was a 6-year $39.5 million (just over 6 million a year) deal which is a bargain for such a consistently great player. Edgerrin James was allowed to walk when his 7 year $49 million contract was up, and Marvin Harrison's largest contract was 7 years for $67 million (a little less than 10 million a year). Those are two future hall of fame WR's (two of the guys you mentioned) who combined for less than the cap hit of Larry Fitz or Megatron alone.

The real waste came from Bob Sanders's five year 37.5 million dollar contract (with 20 million guaranteed), an unprecedented amount for a safety at the time. The guy was paid 20 million dollars to play about 6 games in 4 years.

That's not what he said. In fairness, this is exactly what he said:

"I have no idea how to run a football team nor how to keep my clap-trap shut. So, I am going to simultaneously throw the best player in our franchise's history under the bus while pretending to honor him. It will be great. By the way- Tom Brady, Championships, Pittsburg, draft picks, Johnny Unitas, Babba-Booey, Babba Booey, Howard Stern's Penis.... Spygate.... (jazz hands)."

Then an elephant riding a tricycle wandered into the frame and took a shit on the corpse of Dwight Freeney.

Ughh... okay, for starters, the Colts surrounded Manning with offensive talent at every level- running back, tight end, and wide receiver. They also brought in major defensive help from Mathis to the aforementioned Freeney. The Colts were also operating with the Manning Salary Cap issue which always made acquiring HUGE free-agent contracts a problem (but not impossible). They tried to get a good LT for years after Glen with Castanzo, but they REALLY wanted Nate Solder, who the Pats got a few picks earlier. THey also may have grabbed the best kicker in NFL history when he became available. Just saying.

I think the Colts DID screw up though as time went on- many things started to fall off and they never tried to fix them. I think a major factor was keeping the offense and Manning happy while other parts of the ship languished. When Manning got hurt they just imploded and instead of going 6-10, they just took their foot off the accelerator altogether and started Curtis Painter. Nothing says surrender like Curtis Painter.

After 2005 (the year Mr. Trickster uses as a reference) the Colts would go on to draft Joe Addai (bust) at RB. Anthony Gonzalez (bust) at WR. Tony Ugoh (bust) in 2007. Donald Brown (bust, but maybe not completely) at RB. Jerry Hughes (bust) at DE. And the Polian era's last gasp was Anthony Castanzo (we'll see) at LT. So outside of Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie (sixth and fourth rounders, respectively) neither of which are on the team anymore, there was no real offensive talent there, and that's just WR, anyway. Robert Mathis was drafted in 2003, and while I agree that the Colts wanted Nate Solder he was drafted in 2011, and would not have saved Polian's job.

ETA: People forget (because it was forgettable) that Kerry Collins actually started the year at QB in 2011, and the Colts were competitive until he got hurt.

[trickster]

Not to defend Irsay after I called him a drunken shitheel's idiot kid, but isn't the failure to find/develop talent more on Bill Polian (whom I also loathe)? And isn't the lack of FA activity because of all the years they had a top-heavy team with a ton invested in skill players, with Peyton's huge contracts and big contracts for his favorite toys like Harrison, Wayne, and Edge James?

Agree on the Polian point and I am happy that the Colts moved away from that regime. But Isray is suggesting that replacing Manning was the solution. Is he trying to say that with Brady or Roethlisberger or Eli they would have netted more SBs?

I agree that the Colts model was based around investing in skill position players. But they failed to find adequate replacements for various holes that were opening up. It's been 8 years since Edge left and where is the replacement ? Productive RBs are not that expensive. Tarik Glenn retired after 2006 and they replaced him with Tony Ugogh. By 2010, the Colts should have been in win now mode like Denver is currently. The team just lost the superbowl. Their championship window was "now". But they were quite content with the statues quo. At that time Manning's "toys" were not any better than what Rodgers/Brady/Brees had. In 2010, the Steelers and the Giants had offensive skill position players on par with the Colts. Apart from Rodgers, I think every one of those QBS were earning quite hefty salaries.

ETA: or what Jace just said.

[trickster]

Seems, Isray's comments did not get unnoticed in the Broncos' locker room.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9830976/john-fox-calls-jim-irsay-comments-peyton-manning-cheap-shot

If the Broncos run up the score once this season, we now know which game that would be. I'm still hoping that Luck and Colts will be competitive and not lay an egg like they did against the Chargers. Heck, as a fan I am hoping for a win. But I can see Manning playing till the end even if they are up by 3 TDs.

Thanks Mr Isray.

[Rockroi]

ESPN is reporting that Jerrad Mayo will miss the rest of the season. So, for those keeping score, the Pats have lost two of their three best defensive players for the season, with Talib and Kelley's injury status unknown.

Sweet...

[trickster]

ESPN is reporting that Jerrad Mayo will miss the rest of the season. So, for those keeping score, the Pats have lost two of their three best defensive players for the season, with Talib and Kelley's injury status unknown.

Sweet...

This is pretty bad. There is no Tom Brady on that side of the ball to make up for this kind of loss. Seems like a snake bitten year for your team.

[DanteGabriel]

I think he's going to put on a show, and that he was always going to put on a show.

Actually, Peyton Manning adjusted his contract in 2007 so that the Colts could save $8.2 million in cap space. Only like 6 years before anyone else that I know of (Tommy) was enough of a team player to do that.

Reggie Wayne's largest contract (signed in 2006) was a 6-year $39.5 million (just over 6 million a year) deal which is a bargain for such a consistently great player. Edgerrin James was allowed to walk when his 7 year $49 million contract was up, and Marvin Harrison's largest contract was 7 years for $67 million (a little less than 10 million a year). Those are two future hall of fame WR's (two of the guys you mentioned) who combined for less than the cap hit of Larry Fitz or Megatron alone.

The real waste came from Bob Sanders's five year 37.5 million dollar contract (with 20 million guaranteed), an unprecedented amount for a safety at the time. The guy was paid 20 million dollars to play about 6 games in 4 years.

I don't believe this was the first time Brady has adjusted his contract, but who was talking about the Patriots? I'm talking about Peyton Manning and the effect his contracts had on the Colts. Manning's contracts were always top-of-the-market deals.

For the WR salaries comparison, you are comparing a contract signed in 2006 with the contracts of Megatron and Fitzgerald now. The values you quoted for Wayne and Harrison's contracts are still big contracts now, and were pretty near the top of the market back when Harrison was good. Yes, they're HoF-caliber wideouts, and deserved to be paid accordingly. So yes, the Colts did invest a huge amount of their cap on deals for their skill position players.

As for the Bob Sanders contract -- how quickly a Colts fan forgets! Sanders may have been hurt a lot, but he was healthy for that one Super Bowl run the Colts did go on -- a postseason in which Peyton himself was putrid, and was bailed out by his defense. I remember that year. The played the Chiefs and Ty Law picked off Manning in the playoffs, but the Chiefs could muster no offense and so the Colts advanced. Granted, Peyton got a good win against the Pats in the AFC Championship game that year, but their SB draw was... Rex Grossman's Bears. And Peyton tried to give away the Super Bowl then too, only to have the Rex Cannon fire it right back. The defense bailed out Peyton Manning's underperforming ass in the playoffs that year, and that defense was held together by the Bob Sanders you now lament. Peyton's still ringless without Bob Sanders. You shouldn't throw shade on him.

[Kalbear]

For the most part the Colts did fine with their contract. It wasn't the case that they were too loaded at offense to keep anyone; it was that they didn't see a need to. Just like the Pats routinely got rid of their best receivers after they showed development and awesomeness and did nothing anywhere else, the Colts routinely let their free agents go on defense (with a few exceptions) and just reloaded. This seemed to be completely fine as far as the defense goes. The biggest problem was their inability to get a healthy safety.

People just seem to forget how much luck goes into winning everything, and how big a deal a team is. We've had 4 years in a row now where a wildcard wins it all - and none of those wildcards were particularly awesome in the regular season.

Also, Manning's cap numbers had been extremely friendly. Wayne wasn't too bad. Freeney was oddly one of the worst at the time. Mostly, there were really no true good free agents that Polian would have wanted to go after and that was never their style to begin with. Who did the team lose in FA that they could have signed were it not for the massive money being spent on that offense? Cato June (who was injured in 2006 and never really recovered)? The ruined remains of Bob Sanders? The biggest problem was them missing often on picks in the draft, not their cap space.

[Jace, Extat]

I don't believe this was the first time Brady has adjusted his contract, but who was talking about the Patriots? I'm talking about Peyton Manning and the effect his contracts had on the Colts. Manning's contracts were always top-of-the-market deals.

For the WR salaries comparison, you are comparing a contract signed in 2006 with the contracts of Megatron and Fitzgerald now. The values you quoted for Wayne and Harrison's contracts are still big contracts now, and were pretty near the top of the market back when Harrison was good. Yes, they're HoF-caliber wideouts, and deserved to be paid accordingly. So yes, the Colts did invest a huge amount of their cap on deals for their skill position players.

As for the Bob Sanders contract -- how quickly a Colts fan forgets! Sanders may have been hurt a lot, but he was healthy for that one Super Bowl run the Colts did go on -- a postseason in which Peyton himself was putrid, and was bailed out by his defense. I remember that year. The played the Chiefs and Ty Law picked off Manning in the playoffs, but the Chiefs could muster no offense and so the Colts advanced. Granted, Peyton got a good win against the Pats in the AFC Championship game that year, but their SB draw was... Rex Grossman's Bears. And Peyton tried to give away the Super Bowl then too, only to have the Rex Cannon fire it right back. The defense bailed out Peyton Manning's underperforming ass in the playoffs that year, and that defense was held together by the Bob Sanders you now lament. Peyton's still ringless without Bob Sanders. You shouldn't throw shade on him.

The mention of the Pats was a reference to Tom Brady and restructuring contracts (since Tommy did it this year) I wasn't slighting the Pats, I was praising the willingness of both Brady and Peyton to be team-friendly.

Also, sure Bob Sanders played great in the playoffs, and I still have a #21 jersey in my closet right now, but he soaked up over 7 million a year with little to no production for 4 years. He was a huge part in winning that superbowl, but he was also a factor in the lack of any others.

You seem to forget how great the 06 Patriots, Ravens, and Bears defenses were. And the Pats weren't a bad D either. Yeah, Peyton played poorly, but it's not like he was facing the 2008 Lions.

Also, Manning's cap numbers had been extremely friendly. Wayne wasn't too bad. Freeney was oddly one of the worst at the time. Mostly, there were really no true good free agents that Polian would have wanted to go after and that was never their style to begin with. Who did the team lose in FA that they could have signed were it not for the massive money being spent on that offense? Cato June (who was injured in 2006 and never really recovered)? The ruined remains of Bob Sanders? The biggest problem was them missing often on picks in the draft, not their cap space.

^ Word.

[Rockroi]

The mention of the Pats was a reference to Tom Brady and restructuring contracts (since Tommy did it this year) I wasn't slighting the Pats, I was praising the willingness of both Brady and Peyton to be team-friendly.

But its a bad comparison; Brady's need to restructure his contract was always mitigated against the reality that his INITIAL contracts were always fairly reasonable; you don't generally need to restructure something that was pretty much on the cheap to begin with. Manning was always paid more.

Here is a bare-bones article and chart explaining the cap hits etc - http://overthecap.com/earnings-comparisons-tom-brady-vs-peyton-manning/ Manning has always made more NFL money than Brady and his contracts have always been worth more. Now, I'm not saying that this made it impossible for the Colts to sign free agents; I'm saying that it did not make it easier on them, and certainly it was easier for the Pats to do so.

Bob Sanders ... or Rob Gronkowski ... or Danny Amendola... there is a lot of that going 'round.

And the Pats missed on drafts as well (HINT: most teams DO miss) - Taylor PRice (4th round pick), Laurence Maroney (1st Round - I mean if you think Joseph Adai was a bust ... fuck, don't even look at Maroney's numbers); Chad Jackson (2nd round), Bethel Johnson (2nd rd.), but I think they made up for it in their ability to sign quality free- agents (Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Thomas [though he ended up being a huge bust]) during those years. In 2010- after the 2009 lost PAts' season (the first Brady season after his injury) they had that now infamous draft where they Gronk, McCourty, Cunningham, Spikes and Hernandez (easy....). Few Drafts go that well... until one of your guys ends up shooting 1-3 other people in cold blood.

I think the Colts with Manning had their money tied up in 3 guys - Manning, Harrison and Freeney. This made their cap more inelastic (There were never three Pats taking up THAT much cap space by contrast).

And I think the Colts made more of an effort to draft on offense than they did on defense and this is especially true after 2005. From 2006 to 2010 EVERY SEASON the Colts took an offensive player with their #1 pick. In 2007, it was their first TWO picks; 2008 their first and third picks; and just a note, the Colts traded their 1st round pick that season, but after trades ended up with 4, 6th round picks... where they proceeded to draft all offensive players; in 2009 it was their 1st and 4th rd picks for offensive players and in 2011, over half their draft was for offensive players (all linemen, IIRC). And that tradition has continued in 2012 (Luck) and 2013 where an astounding 13 of the 17 players they drafted are on offense. (By contrast, since 2001, the Pats have only used 4 first round picks on offensive players).

And this season they traded their #1 pick in 2014 for Trent Richardson. So... not sure what the new philosophy is down there.

And the Colts did completely implode once Manning got hurt and that was due to a variety of factors, not least of which was never having a good Back up QB and not having any semblance of a team without Manning. Hence, the draft inequities were considerable. I also think they had bad coaches and an inept management system. But the inability to sign free agents...

But I mentioned this before - one of the things I am angry at right now is the Pats having the most unintelligible and unreliable receiving corps in football. The Pats' #1 receiver (who can actually make it on the field) is Julian Edelman- I like Edleman, but he's a stunning 7th round draft pick out of Kent State. Where he played QB. JUlian would not be the #1 or #2 WR on any other team (and yes with Blackmond and Shorts in Jacksonville, that includes the Jaguars). Manning would NEVER have allowed that to happen. Almost every single major target of Manning's QB career (who has not retired) is a force in the NFL today- Wayne, Garcon, even Dallas Clark is still playing as is Austin Collie (until his forehead caves in). I know that this was a scattered-brained way to say this but I think Manning exerted a far greater degree of control OR was given a higher degree of deference in the COlts' draft strategy than was Brady. I say that NOW because the PAts have the Sisters of the Poor catching for them and Manning always was stacked.

Now- disclaimer - the Pats put their team together thinking Aron Hernandez would be here and that Gronk would be playing. I just still don't even PRETEND to understand the Amendola/Welker moves or why Lloyd is not playing etc.

[BLU-RAY]

Edelman would probably be the 1 or 2 on the Jets, possibly on the Rams (depending on what you think of Austin right now), quite possibly on the Chargers, maybe on the Seahawks (it's impossible to really tell the quality of their WRs), the 49ers, maybe the Vikings, currently the Packers, quite possibly the Lions, if Johnson is out, then probably the Bills... who the hell is the Browns' #2 WR... maybe the Texans, though I like their new rookie... maybe the Titans, though given their QB situations for the past few years, it's hard to evaluate their WR talent; probably the Chiefs? I guess Avery might be better than him. Maybe Oakland.

That's been an unsystematic evaluation, but even still. Once you exclude injured guys (Amendola, Holmes, Hill, everyone on the Chargers before K. Allen and V. Brown, Harvin, Crabtree, Manningham, Cobb, Jones, Burleson, Johnson...), I mean, it's hard to separate Edelman from Brady, but someone who can run a decent route, catch a ball, and absorb contact is actually not that widespread a skillset.

ETA: Part of the point being, you're wrong about Edelman; the other part being, Jacksonville is a pretty bad example - just because they're (by far) the worst team in the league doesn't mean they're the worst at every unit. WR is probably their biggest strength (maybe RB or LB).

[Kalbear]

Here is a bare-bones article and chart explaining the cap hits etc - http://overthecap.co...peyton-manning/ Manning has always made more NFL money than Brady and his contracts have always been worth more. Now, I'm not saying that this made it impossible for the Colts to sign free agents; I'm saying that it did not make it easier on them, and certainly it was easier for the Pats to do so.

Eh. It's 2.3 mil during the time we're talking about. Not crippling to any team. Again, it would be a better argument if the Colts were actively looking to sign FAs and keep the defensive stars they drafted, but they never were. It's not like the Pats getting rid of star left and right like they did in the late 2000s - like Samuel for instance. The Colts never had players of that caliber that they were trying to keep. Nor were they losing talent left and right either; it was basically losses via retirement or losses via injury.

The Colts could have gone after players like Welker and Moss that year (or several other years). They had cap space. Polian simply never looked at the FA market. That wasn't ever his style. Belichick did so a couple of times - but even then got a good Brady discount for the players. Moss signed for peanuts, after all, and Welker's contract was pretty cheap. They had the cap to pay Welker this year as well; how'd that work out?

Polian's strategy in the draft was fairly simple: always have a good offense with star players (because they aren't as fungible) and get enough players via UDFA and the later rounds to make a serviceable defense. That was Dungy's strategy from day one. Dungy's D didn't need a star past Freeney and to a lesser extent Sanders; as long as he had those, he could make the Tampa 2 work. It's much harder (as the Pats and others are finding out) to find star offensive linemen, WRs and TEs in the later rounds. That's what their strategy was. The Pats, meanwhile, appeared to want to go after FAs that were 'problem' issues and rebuild them or go after specific skillsets that would fit their needs on offense and hope they panned out, while going after a shotgun approach on defense.

End result? Pretty close to the same. The Colts had historically a significantly better offense for a longer stretch. The Pats had a very good defense for a while, then a really shitty one. Brady is now dealing with the effects of missing on a lot of defensive players while getting unlucky on offense and not willing to resign stars; the Colts are dealing with having to blow up their entire team for a year and not having much in the way of depth.

Kinda sucks all over.

[trickster]

<...> a postseason in which Peyton himself was putrid, and was bailed out by his defense. I remember that year. The played the Chiefs and Ty Law picked off Manning in the playoffs, but the Chiefs could muster no offense and so the Colts advanced. Granted, Peyton got a good win against the Pats in the AFC Championship game that year, but their SB draw was... Rex Grossman's Bears. And Peyton tried to give away the Super Bowl then too, only to have the Rex Cannon fire it right back. The defense bailed out Peyton Manning's underperforming ass in the playoffs that year, and that defense was held together by the Bob Sanders you now lament. Peyton's still ringless without Bob Sanders. You shouldn't throw shade on him.

As I have mentioned a couple of times already, the game was played under rainy condition. Their opponents had a great D and Rex Grossman under center. There was no need to play hero ball. Also Manning did come through when it mattered in the AFC championship game against the Pats.

In a team game why should the defense not carry the team for a game or two? Even with three INTs, the colts offense did put 23 points on the board against the chiefs. This is more than what the Brady led Patriots had to score during the 2001 postseason run to their first superbowl. They scored 24 against the Steelers, but it was Bledsoe who played most of the game and the Pats actually scored two special team TDs. They scored only one offensive TD. Hell Brady had the luxury of winning the SB (and the MVP) against the greatest show on turf in a DOME while throwing for only 145 yards. If the pats defense did not hold the Warner led Rams offense to 17 points only, there would be no game winning drive. So yes, sometimes the defense does carry the QB's ass.

Or how about the win in 2003 playoffs against the Titans? The Patriots offense scored only 17 points and still won. Brady passed for 201 yards, only 45 yards in the last three quarters. Yes it was one of the coldest games in memory; but is that a good enough reason (rain apparently is not)? Or did the defense carry his ass so that he could come through in the clutch? How many times Peyton had this luxury? In close games, Colts D would either fail to hold the other teams offense (Billy Volek led the game winning drive in 2007 for the chargers) or the coach will call a stupid timeout to help the opposing team after the special team has given up a 40+ yards return (vs the Jets in 2010) or the idiot kicker would miss a game tying FG (against the Steelers in 2005).

I think Brady is a great QB, first ballot hall of fame QB. His 2004 playoffs performance during the NE run towards their third SB win was amazing. He would be my first choice to play QB for a game if Manning was not available (you may think the other way round and I have no big problem with that). He delivered several game winning clutch drives in the playoffs. But the defense had kept his team in quite a few of those low scoring games, their HoF kicker kicked clutch FGs. The Colts D would not have been able to do that in most games. In 2006 they did and look at the result.

I know Manning lost two playoffs games against NE and the Colts offense crapped the bed. But the NE defense and strategy were just stellar and hats off to them. ( I still think Manning circa 2007-9 could have won one of those games. But that's just speculation.) But Brady's team also lost 2 SBs where the offense failed to score more than 17 points. The Giants D played great on both occasions, but the NE offense scored only 14 and 17 points. So NE D did it's part, the O lost them the game, right?

Football is a team game, match ups, injury, luck, weather everything matters, it literally is a game of inches. I am disappointed as a Colts fan since in my opinion the front office should have done more or at least shown more effort to make the team better during the Manning era. And then the owner says that the best player in club history is to blame for this.

[DanteGabriel]

The Colts could have gone after players like Welker and Moss that year (or several other years). They had cap space. Polian simply never looked at the FA market. That wasn't ever his style. Belichick did so a couple of times - but even then got a good Brady discount for the players. Moss signed for peanuts, after all, and Welker's contract was pretty cheap. They had the cap to pay Welker this year as well; how'd that work out?

Welker and Moss were both trades, not FA acquisitions.

And yeah, I'm unhappy about Belichick as a GM, especially in the last couple of years. His drafting has improved from when he was blowing high picks on the likes of Maroney, Chad Jackson, and Darius Butler, but he's been doing poorly on veteran players in trades and FA -- like Haynesworth and the Ocho. And this offseason he basically lost out on Welker and Emmanuel Sanders for a couple of million dollars a year. Outsmarting himself on the Welker contract, especially, was a bad attempt to fix a problem that didn't exist. Even if you think he's lost a step, just keep him out of the hands of another team, like say the goddamned Broncos.

[Rockroi]

End result? Pretty close to the same. The Colts had historically a significantly better offense for a longer stretch. The Pats had a very good defense for a while, then a really shitty one. Brady is now dealing with the effects of missing on a lot of defensive players while getting unlucky on offense and not willing to resign stars; the Colts are dealing with having to blow up their entire team for a year and not having much in the way of depth.

The Patriots should have known that Amendola was not a realistic Welker replacement. I'm sorry but I said that back when they let Welker go and replaced him with Amendola for, basically, the same amount of money. That's not "unlucky" that's myopathy. The Patriots on defense, meanwhile, have been boarder-line terrific this season after being historically terrible for the prior 2.5 years. The major difference has been the Talib. Right now the Pats have (probably) too many defensive injuries to be effective, but that's not because of a bad philosophy.

Though, its not really what we have been discussing this entire time.

I also think that the COlts didn't go after free-agent talent because they knew they could not afford that talent in the long run. Yes, they were never in cap Hell (like Oakland - they are still paying Russel btw) but I think the cause and effect is misaligned; I think they never went after big free agents because they knew the cap would be a problem later on and not the other way around.

And as far as the COlts defense went ... they were always pretty bad. I don't think you can just give the Colts organization a pass for that. Yes, they went after the offense because it was at a premium, but they had glaring holes on D they never addressed and it usually snake-bit them in the end. And the only year that was NOT true was in 2006 and that's amazing when you consider that 1) the Colts D was at its worse that season and 2) Manning had a pretty bad playoffs that season. He threw like 3TDs v. 7 INTs and a QB rating of 70.5... his lowest playoff QB rating since 2003 and he has never been that low since.

And I think the Colts proof went into the pudding after Manning left and they imploded and then just stopped trying for a season; no realistic #2 QB and they are rebuilding with Luck (which, all of a sudden, does not seem like such a sure thing now).

But the Pats are no better. Right now, if Brady went down they don't win another game the whole rest of the season (and granted, injuries are taking the toll on D, not mismanagement). And, yeah, the HErnandez clusterfuck hit the Pats AFTER they made their off-season moves and drafted. Gronk's "injury" and the Pats' perplexing response drone on and on.

But... BRady's 2014 cap number is only $2M. HOw much room under the cap does that leave the Pats to sign real WRs?

Edelman would probably be the 1 or 2 on the Jets, possibly on the Rams (depending on what you think of Austin right now) ...

I went through most of the teams and I think its safe to say that Edleman could be, at best a #2 WR on about half the teams you mentioned, and that factors in all the injuries. So, yes, after major injuries if you scrape the bottom of the NFL talent barrel among teams that have no chance of making the post season, JUlian Edelman is almost a #2WR on several of those teams. Well played...

Though, in fairness, I did overstate my point, so, I see what you were doing.

[Rhom]

And I think the Colts proof went into the pudding after Manning left and they imploded and then just stopped trying for a season; no realistic #2 QB and they are rebuilding with Luck (which, all of a sudden, does not seem like such a sure thing now).

Not to pick nits from your post, but I do have to ask: Luck has one bad game in his second season and all of a sudden we're questioning if he's the right man for the job?

[awesome possum]

The dumbest part of Irsay's comments - besides all of them - is this idea that, "We weren't winning championships with a QB-centered team so we let him walk so that we could build a... QB-centered team."

[Maithanet]

The dumbest part of Irsay's comments - besides all of them - is this idea that, "We weren't winning championships with a QB-centered team so we let him walk so that we could build a... QB-centered team."

Exactly, and if the Colts keep making moves like trading away first round picks for running backs, Luck is going to be making regular first round exits too.

[Mexal]

Not to pick nits from your post, but I do have to ask: Luck has one bad game in his second season and all of a sudden we're questioning if he's the right man for the job?

Yea, no idea what Rock is talking about there. Luck is the right man for the job as long as the rest of the pieces fall into place. He won't be Peyton Manning right away but when the ball is in his hands (and not the running game), he's pretty damn effective and will only get better.

[Rhom]

Yea, no idea what Rock is talking about there. Luck is the right man for the job as long as the rest of the pieces fall into place. He won't be Peyton Manning right away but when the ball is in his hands (and not the running game), he's pretty damn effective and will only get better.

Agreed. And Peyton Manning wasn't exactly PEYTON MANNING in his second year either.

[sperry]

Luck didn't even have a bad game on Monday. He was clanking balls off his receivers skillet hands all night, many of which would have led to points. As a Sam Bradford fan, I can sympathize with that predicament, and how it can kill the momentum of a game and make a QB look a lot worse than he is, statistically and otherwise.