Best to Worst Mothers in ASOIAF

[Alayne's Shadow.]

Why is Elia being called a good mother? Wasn't Rhaenys running around with any guardian during the sack? Which good mother would leave her toddler unattended during such a time?.

There was no time. The city was sacked by surprise. Hell, Elia herself had no protection.

[Fat Mac]

"... "Will the king and I have children?" she asked.

"Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you."

Robert had 16 kids total: Mya Stone, Gendry, Edric Storm, Bella, the Casterly Rock twins, Barra and 9 others. Cersei had three of them that we know killed. But Gendry, Mya, Edric and Bella are all part of the sixteen, so Cersei did not kill 16 of Robert's kids. She had at least 3 killed, but no more than 12 since Mya, Edric, Gendry and Bella are all alive..

[PeterPaulGualtieri]

Robert had 16 kids total: Mya Stone, Gendry, Edric Storm, Bella, the Casterly Rock twins, Barra and 9 others. Cersei had three of them that we know killed. But Gendry, Mya, Edric and Bella are all part of the sixteen, so Cersei did not kill 16 of Robert's kids. She had at least 3 killed, but no more than 12 since Mya, Edric, Gendry and Bella are all alive..

What String said..

[WeaselPie]

Why is Elia being called a good mother? Wasn't Rhaenys running around with any guardian during the sack? Which good mother would leave her toddler unattended during such a time?

I wouldn't call Gilly a good mother yet. She is new and there isn't enough to go on. The way cersei talked about Joffrey, I am sure Cersei treated Joffrey just like Gilly treats her son and adoptive son. Cersei didn't turn out so well.

Regarding Elia, we don't know the facts yet. Rhaenys wasn't running around, she was hiding under a bed on a different floor of the keep. If you want to lay blame, there are many attendants that should have been present to guard Elia and her children. That doesn't make her a bad mother. By all accords, she loved her kids and hoped to escape with them to Dragonstone ...until Aerys held her captive (so to speak).

[MotherAnduin]

There was no time. The city was sacked by surprise. Hell, Elia herself had no protection.

There was ample time to climb a flight of stairs and get her toddler to safety. Elia should have been with her children the moment Tywin's army appeared at the gates. From that moment to her death, it is likely that hours passed by.

[PeterPaulGualtieri]

There was ample time to climb a flight of stairs and get her toddler to safety. Elia should have been with her children the moment Tywin's army appeared at the gates. From that moment to her death, it is likely that hours passed by.

Even if she was, it wouldn't have made much of a difference. What's she to do against Gregor and Amory Lorch?

[Fat Mac]

We don't know the specifics of the Red Keep during the sack. For all we know, perhaps Elia's guards didn't let her leave for her own protection. Stuff like that isn't too uncommon.

[CosimaistheHottest]

We don't know the specifics of the Red Keep during the sack. For all we know, perhaps Elia's guards didn't let her leave for her own protection. Stuff like that isn't too uncommon.

Yea. We don't know the specifics. For all we know, as soon as Elia realized what was happening she could have told Rhaenys to hide. Or maybe Rhaenys did have a guardian who was her nursemaid at the time and the servant told her to hide under the bed. Or even more likely, Rhaenys probably got out of her bed and was running around playing with her cat especially if it was nighttime and she knew to be back in bed before her mother came to check in on her. Kids do it all the time.

I and many other people are under the assumption that she was a good mother because of what we have heard about her and the qualities that she had that people remember her for. These qualities are things people look for some times not necessarily all the time when ascertaining if someone was a good mother. Since she didn't have a chance to raise her children to adulthood we don't know how well those qualities would have played out for her.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

There was ample time to climb a flight of stairs and get her toddler to safety. Elia should have been with her children the moment Tywin's army appeared at the gates. From that moment to her death, it is likely that hours passed by.

We can't really know what happened. Maybe they were asleep. It just didn't sound to me that Elia would have the time to hide her children to safety. Also, there was probably a big confusion when Tywin started to sack the city. How is she supposed to have gone to little Rhaenys? We also don't have any evidence that she didn't. We probably won't ever know. Also, it's possible she wasn't able to leave the heir to the throne after Rhaegar's death alone.

Yea. We don't know the specifics. For all we know, as soon as Elia realized what was happening she could have told Rhaenys to hide. Or maybe Rhaenys did have a guardian who was her nursemaid at the time and the servant told her to hide under the bed. Or even more likely, Rhaenys probably got out of her bed and was running around playing with her cat especially if it was nighttime and she knew to be back in bed before her mother came to check in on her. Kids do it all the time.

I and many other people are under the assumption that she was a good mother because of what we have heard about her and the qualities that she had that people remember her for. These qualities are things people look for some times not necessarily all the time when ascertaining if someone was a good mother. Since she didn't have a chance to raise her children to adulthood we don't know how well those qualities would have played out for her.

We probably will never know how Elia Martell would be as a mother. I have a soft spot for the character and I wish we know more about her in the next books.

[MotherAnduin]

We can't really know what happened. Maybe they were asleep. It just didn't sound to me that Elia would have the time to hide her children to safety. Also, there was probably a big confusion when Tywin started to sack the city. How is she supposed to have gone to little Rhaenys? We also don't have any evidence that she didn't. We probably won't ever know. Also, it's possible she wasn't able to leave the heir to the throne after Rhaegar's death alone.

 

 

We probably will never know how Elia Martell would be as a mother. I have a soft spot for the character and I wish we know more about her in the next books.

[Minsc]

Cat (UnCat) - had made horrible mistakes, could be redeemed as a mother and probably will be as a plot point

Making mistakes doesn't mean someone isn't a good parent, as seen how Ned made numerous mistakes and he is still considered a good father.

Furthermore, a number of the things you considered mistakes aren't really mistakes.

[Alty732]

Cat defenders, I am always ignored when I bring up a valid and good point about her and I want to here your actual justifications for her cruelness to Jon. I agree she is not his mother, nor should even have to love him. But hate him? the cruelness that comes from her mouth to him? totaly unjustified. HE DID NOTHING TO HER. He was born. That is it. she should be mad at ned, and jon should only be a reminder of her anger towards ned. He "cheated" (i say that cause of R+L=J). Jon did not betray her or hurt her or cause her any harm. It should be Ned she is mad at, but instead she takes it out on an innocent child who is nothing but a consequence of someone else's choice.

P.s. I like Cat, but defending her for this is silly. There is not rational reason behind her hate, so if I don't get a reply I am taking it as there is no rational reason you can come up with.

[Arya kiddin']

Cat defenders, I am always ignored when I bring up a valid and good point about her and I want to here your actual justifications for her cruelness to Jon. I agree she is not his mother, nor should even have to love him. But hate him? the cruelness that comes from her mouth to him? totaly unjustified. HE DID NOTHING TO HER. He was born. That is it. she should be mad at ned, and jon should only be a reminder of her anger towards ned. He "cheated" (i say that cause of R+L=J). Jon did not betray her or hurt her or cause her any harm. It should be Ned she is mad at, but instead she takes it out on an innocent child who is nothing but a consequence of someone else's choice.

P.s. I like Cat, but defending her for this is silly. There is not rational reason behind her hate, so if I don't get a reply I am taking it as there is no rational reason you can come up with.

Here. Check what the author has to say.

[Minsc]

Cat defenders, I am always ignored when I bring up a valid and good point about her and I want to here your actual justifications for her cruelness to Jon. I agree she is not his mother, nor should even have to love him. But hate him? the cruelness that comes from her mouth to him? totaly unjustified. HE DID NOTHING TO HER. He was born. That is it. she should be mad at ned, and jon should only be a reminder of her anger towards ned. He "cheated" (i say that cause of R+L=J). Jon did not betray her or hurt her or cause her any harm. It should be Ned she is mad at, but instead she takes it out on an innocent child who is nothing but a consequence of someone else's choice.

P.s. I like Cat, but defending her for this is silly. There is not rational reason behind her hate, so if I don't get a reply I am taking it as there is no rational reason you can come up with.

Most Cat-defenders admit that what she said to Jon was mean and unnecessary, however according to George that was a one time thing and part of it arose from how she was under extreme grief and emotional breakdown. Thus, while we acknowledge that it was wrong it shouldn't be judged as representative of her normal persona and status as a mother.

Additionally, I think saying she "hated" him is overblown. In how, while she might not like him I wouldn't put it do the degree of hatred instead she just didn't want him around her and her children. Otherwise, she didn't mind if Ned provided for him if he had just followed tradition and had him fostered out thus he wasn't constantly in her face and humiliating her.

[kaspar]

Best: Ellaria Sand, Maege Mormont.

Worst: Lysa Tully, Selyse Florent.

[Damon_Tor]

Inspired by this thread:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/93866-best-to-worst-the-fathers-in-the-song-of-ice-and-fire/

For me the best would be

1. Joana Lannister

2. Olenna Redwyne

3. Catelyn Tully

So, what "A for effort?" Olenna, I'll give you that one, she seems to have her head on straight. The other two appear to have been miserable failures, simply based on their results. One spawned three monsters, two of whom bear the bulk of the blame for destroying a nation. The other spawned a boy who started a civil war, a daughter who joined an assassin death-cult, another daughter who is in the hands of the creepiest man in the world, a son who's crippled from the waist down, and another son who is probably going to be more ****ed up than the rest of them.

[MrsManderly]

Best:

Gilly

Elaria Sand

Lady Mormont (yes she's a working mother but she taught her girls right)

Taena Merryweather (yup, cause she's keeping that boy of hers well and far away from court and Cersei and you can tell she cares about him)

Worst:

Cersei

Mrs Doran Martell (whatever her name is - the one that cleared off back to Narvos cause she couldn't deal)

Dany (to her dragons - no training and off to the dungeon with you)

[Minsc]

The other spawned a boy who started a civil war, a daughter who joined an assassin death-cult, another daughter who is in the hands of the creepiest man in the world, a son who's crippled from the waist down, and another son who is probably going to be more ****ed up than the rest of them.

How do any of those relate back to Catelyn's mothering?

[MotherMerciless]

Best- Melessa Florent, Olenna, Ellaria, Cat

Worst- Lysa, Selyse

[Damon_Tor]

How do any of those relate back to Catelyn's mothering?

She raised 5 children, all of whom turned out broken, physically or mentally. If somebody bakes 5 pies and all of them turn out to be terrible pies, do you call her a good baker?