US Politics: Catholic Suicide Bombers?

[lokisnow]

Even if I'm paying more, it's still a less than the amount I pay every year to subsidize the mortgage interest tax deduction.

on a related note, there is no means test on the mortgage interest tax deduction.

There is a means test on the student loan interest tax deduction.

So although my wife has 166,000 in outstanding law school loans (double the mortgage of the three bedroom house my little sister bought this year for 80,000), we get no tax credit because we exceed the means test by 1500 and my sister gets a MASSIVE tax write off. we won't buy a house for 5-10 years because of the student loans, so no mortgage for us.

I'm much more angry about the mortgage interest and student loan interest tax situation than I am about anything relating to healthcare, the subsidy I pay to the middle class every year to make their cushy houses more 'affordable' is far worse, in my eyes, than a subsidy to help the poor get healthcare or regulations that increase the cost of my healthcare.

[Pero the first of His name]

I want know politic of U, S and A but posts move always veryfast, like cheetah. No can keep up.

[polishgenius]

If it were any other organizations associated with pedophiles, would there be any outrage?

I'd be a lot more sympathetic towards this opinion if I had the slightest belief that the NSA was spying on the Pope because of the pedophile thing. And hell, if it turns out they managed to gather some evidence that will help take down some more pedo priests I'll take this opinion back and applaud them heartily. But I doubt it.

Also yeah, if it turns out the NSA has been spying on college football teams there'll probably be some outraged criticism too.

[Lummel]

I don't see why security services wouldn't spy on the Papacy and the Catholic church hierarchy. They are an international organisation that national governments deal with, they are privy to confidential information that is useful for national government to have. Knowing what they know, knowing the currents of opinion within an organisation like the papacy puts you in a far stronger position when it comes to dealing or negotiating with them.

Terrorism here is a giant red herring, or perhaps simply a garnish on the business of information gathering. Organisations gather information by legal and illegal means. Metternich had spies within the Austrian administration that he was chancellor over to find out what other ministers were doing! In the back-pages of the magazine Private Eye they used to advertise listening devices (perhaps they still do) and the advertising pitch was so that employers could listen in on what their employees were saying.

Addressing terrorism is simply a potential spin off benefit from collecting intelligence. Most of it will be utilised to improve the government's position in diplomacy, trade talks, maybe a bit of industrial espionage, certainly finding out what allies are doing and thinking. It's like a poker player using a mirror to see their opponents cards. It is something that gives you an advantage and enables you to act more effectively rather than being in the dark.

Terrorism is simply a palatable excuse to either win some level of public, but probably more importantly political support because nobody wants to be seen as soft on Terrorists, unless they are actually Freedom Fighters of course. If there was no terrorism there would still be intelligence gathering.

[Galactus]

Agreed. That the US is listening in on foreign heads of state and governmet is only them doing their y'know... Job.

[polishgenius]

Yeah, that point is a pretty strong one- the real outrage here is that they got caught out so comprehensively.

[Inigima]

Yeah, that is what they are supposed to do. The embarrassing thing is getting caught, surely.

edit: hah

[Prosesskrift]

Well, I'd argue that there is something to the scope of said surveilance too. A kind of surveilance which, as a result of the US unique position, is all but impossible to safeguard against.

There are no laws governing spy-missions (outside of them being illegal in most countries), but there does seem to be a certain code of conduct all the same. Whether it is wrong to go against said code is an interesting question, but it's hardly surprising that the countries involved react the way they do. In fact, it must have been known within the US that they would react this way. As such, Snowden's Access to those kinds of materials shows a disturbing level of incompetence within the NSA.

[Horza]

Agreed. That the US is listening in on foreign heads of state and governmet is only them doing their y'know... Job.

Up to a point.

The problem is that we have this global internet thing that works really well for everyone when it's all connected together and people trust that the private communications they make through it aren't going to end up on the database of a vast US intelligence agency that doesn't seem terribly bothered to tell its elected officials what it does.

This doesn't seem possible with the current arrangements under which the NSA operates, and that's a problem for us smallfolk. It's a problem for US tech giants, who can't guarantee clients that their information won't get Huawei'd. This distrust is already accelerating moves by individual governments to 'balkanize' the internet. Regardless of the spy vs spy shit, the basic question that arises out of this is who owns the internet - governments, corporations or something else.

[awesome possum]

Well its not like they've even been caught so much as had a former insider leak all this information. Without Snowden all of this would have likely only been discusses in conspiracy circles.

Let's see if the so-called liberal media or even lamestream media will point out that there are more "winners" than "losers" due to the reform.

Where's the Rabble-Rousing fun in positive stories? I often think the media has forgotten there are positive stories out there that don't involve small animals riding on miniature vehicles of some sort.

[A wilding]

Well its not like they've even been caught so much as had a former insider leak all this information. Without Snowden all of this would have likely only been discusses in conspiracy circles.

It has been very strongly suspected for years by most technical people at the high end of IT.

In the UK we knew where GCHQ was in 1945 (penetration of the Nazi comms network that was near total and near real time) and could extrapolate as to where they probably were 50 years later.

Think of how careless the NSA's oversight was, and how it has been variously misused over the years by individuals for their own private or political purposes. Think of all the people who had at least some knowledge, for example all the people in the Telcos implementing the back doors and gathering info to hand over. Some sort of Snowden event was only a matter of time.

[polishgenius]

Well its not like they've even been caught so much as had a former insider leak all this information. Without Snowden all of this would have likely only been discusses in conspiracy circles.

I think that qualifies as 'getting caught', given that he reportedly got a job there with the express purpose of finding the information, and was certainly actively looking for it for a long time before the leaks. It didn't just fall into his lap during the natural course of his career and he decided he had to tell the world.

[awesome possum]

It has been very strongly suspected for years by most technical people at the high end of IT.

In the UK we knew where GCHQ was in 1945 (penetration of the Nazi comms network that was near total and near real time) and could extrapolate as to where they probably were 50 years later.

Think of how careless the NSA's oversight was, and how it has been variously misused over the years by individuals for their own private or political purposes. Think of all the people who had at least some knowledge, for example all the people in the Telcos implementing the back doors and gathering info to hand over. Some sort of Snowden event was only a matter of time.

I agree completely. Snowden has merely brought to light what everyone already suspected. The real surprises have been how deep the spying goes rather than the fact that there's spying at all.

I think that qualifies as 'getting caught', given that he reportedly got a job there with the express purpose of finding the information, and was certainly actively looking for it for a long time before the leaks. It didn't just fall into his lap during the natural course of his career and he decided he had to tell the world.

Fair enough. I don't see it as "getting caught" so much as "being exposed" but there's really very little difference between the two.

[Prince of the North]

There's a chart here which helps to put Obamacare in perspective during these days of woe.

I feel for anyone who is getting screwed over in the short term, but I still believe that this is a positive overall and going to continue to get better.

Let's see if the so-called liberal media or even lamestream media will point out that there are more "winners" than "losers" due to the reform.

And even for those getting screwed in the short term...remember that lifetime limits are gone and you can't get dropped; both problems that persisted as part of the status quo before the new law.

I saw that chart yesterday, too, Trisk and I feel the same way you do. I also thought the chart's source made for some interesting reading.

Gruber’s specific expertise is predicting the effects of changes to health-care policy. His models of the insurance market helped convince both Romney and Obama of the importance of including an individual mandate in their respective plans. Wednesday morning, as Gruber was preparing for his meeting with Obama, I asked him for his thoughts about the various troubles plaguing the rollout of the A.C.A.

Finally, Gruber was frank about the issue that has caused the President so much political pain this week: the oft-repeated promise that any American who liked his health-insurance plan could keep it. It turns out than many people—probably millions—will not be able to keep the exact plans they currently have.

But the details and context are important.

Gruber broke down the A.C.A. “winners” and “losers” for me. About eighty per cent of Americans are more or less left alone by the health-care act—largely people who have health insurance through their employers. About fourteen per cent of Americans are clear winners: they are currently uninsured and will have access to an affordable insurance policy under the A.C.A.

But much of the current controversy involves the six per cent of Americans who buy their own health care on the individual market, which the A.C.A. has dramatically reformed. Gruber argued that half of these people (three per cent of all Americans) will have little change to their polices. “They have to buy new plans, but they will be pretty similar to what they had before,” he said. “It will essentially be relabeling.”

The other half, however, also three per cent of the population, will have to buy a new product that complies with the A.C.A.’s more stringent requirements for individual plans. A significant portion of these roughly nine million Americans will be forced to buy a new insurance policy with higher premiums than they currently pay. The primary reason for the increased cost is that the A.C.A. bans any plan that would require a people who get sick to pay medical fees greater than six thousand dollars per year. In other words, this was a deliberate policy decision that the White House and Congress made to raise the quality—and thus the premiums—of insurance policies at the bottom end of the individual market.

[Frog Eater]

Even if I'm paying more, it's still a less than the amount I pay every year to subsidize the mortgage interest tax deduction.

on a related note, there is no means test on the mortgage interest tax deduction.

There is a means test on the student loan interest tax deduction.

So although my wife has 166,000 in outstanding law school loans (double the mortgage of the three bedroom house my little sister bought this year for 80,000), we get no tax credit because we exceed the means test by 1500 and my sister gets a MASSIVE tax write off. we won't buy a house for 5-10 years because of the student loans, so no mortgage for us.

I'm much more angry about the mortgage interest and student loan interest tax situation than I am about anything relating to healthcare, the subsidy I pay to the middle class every year to make their cushy houses more 'affordable' is far worse, in my eyes, than a subsidy to help the poor get healthcare or regulations that increase the cost of my healthcare.

Student Loan interest and Mortgage Interest are completely different types of deductions on your tax return.

Student Loan interest is an "above the line" deduction, meaning that it is deducted before figuring your AGI.

Mortgage Interest is an itemized deduction, meaning that your sister would have to pay more in mortgage interest, property taxes, and other itemized deductions than the standard deduction to get any benefit at all. Assuming 4.75% interest on a $80,000 mortgage, her interest would not have been any more than $3,461. Assuming property taxes of $1,500, your sister's itemized deductions from her house are $4,961. The standard deduction for single taxpayers last year was $5,950, married was 11,900. She might not have even been able to itemize, and taken the standard deduction, thus getting no benefit from her house.

You on the other hand, deduct your student loan interest before AGI, so the standard deduction does not affect you.

[Kouran]

Well so six whole people signed up for Obamacare on day one. That is a smashing success, I mean in roughly 136,986 years we would get the whole US signed up. Way to go!

Ok now that satire is over lets get real. The web site is a travesty of design and the roll out is like watching a monkey fuck a football.

I like how even Joe Klein has had enough as well.

http://swampland.time.com/2013/10/30/buckpasser/

Dont nix it, fix it.

[Frog Eater]

Well so six whole people signed up for Obamacare on day one. That is a smashing success, I mean in roughly 136,986 years we would get the whole US signed up. Way to go!

Ok now that satire is over lets get real. The web site is a travesty of design and the roll out is like watching a monkey fuck a football.

I like how even Joe Klein has had enough as well.

http://swampland.time.com/2013/10/30/buckpasser/

Dont nix it, fix it.

Be real. I am not an Obamacare apologist, but purchasing health insurance is a big deal. getting quotes and then discussing them with your spouse or thinking them over for a few days/weeks is not unreasonable.

[Prince of the North]

There is pushback against that chart here.

Heh, that's not surprising at all. Dueling estimates and all that :rolleyes:

[awesome possum]

And another one bites the dust

A Republican congressional candidate is renouncing his party and switching his affiliation to Democrat.

Jason Thigpen, who is challenging Republican U.S. Rep. Walter Jones in the 3rd Congressional District, wrote a blistering assessment of his former party, saying his shift was precipitated by the tea party push for a government shutdown.

“I simply cannot stand with a party where its most extreme element promote hate and division amongst people,” Thigpen said in a statement posted to his campaign website Thursday. “Nothing about my platform has, nor will it change. The government shutdown was simply the straw that broke the camels back. I guess being an American just isn’t good enough anymore and I refuse to be part of an extremist movement in the GOP that only appears to thrive on fear and hate mongering of anyone and everyone who doesn’t walk their line.”

Thigpen is a six-year Army veteran who received a Purple Heart, according to his website. He graduated from UNC-Wilmington in May and started a nonprofit group called Student Veterans Advocacy Group. The 36-year-old lives in Holly Ridge with his wife and four children.

Good, good. Let the hate flow out of you as you come to the less dark side. And then slam the Teanuts some more

His statement is not the first time he’s bucked the Republican Party. Earlier this year, he earned a headline in the Fayetteville Observer for calling the GOP-drafted law to require a voter ID at the polls discriminatory and saying it would suppress the right to vote. At the time, he described himself as a “true Republican.”

"You can paint a turd and sell it as art, but it's still a turd,” he said at the time.

Thigpen again took aim at the GOP legislature in his party-switching announcement. “I didn’t go to war to defend the liberties and freedoms of one party, race, sex, or one income class of Americans,” he said. “So, to come home from serving our country and see North Carolina legislators using their super-majority status to gerrymander districts and pass a law to deliberately suppress and oppress the voting rights of Democrats but more specifically minorities and college students, is absolutely deplorable.

“This same group of spineless legislators piggybacked a motorcycle safety bill with legislation intentionally geared to shut down women’s health clinics because of their ‘right righteous’ beliefs on abortion, while then cutting funding to the programs which help feed and provide healthcare to the babies they invariably forced the same women to have. Sounds like the Christian thing to do, huh?”

I hope this guy gets national publicity and starts a wave of defections. The Repugnant Party deserves so much worse.

[armidil0]

And another one bites the dust

Good, good. Let the hate flow out of you as you come to the less dark side. And then slam the Teanuts some more

I hope this guy gets national publicity and starts a wave of defections. The Repugnant Party deserves so much worse.

If this becomes a habit with the more moderate and centrists republicans I can see this hurting the Democratic party in the long run.