Whats up with the Jorah dislike?

[Ser Greg of House House]

OP, I don't understand why you take for granted that the author's view is that of his POVs. His mosaic of POVs allows you to see a bigger picture and question the characters, that's one of the most compelling aspects of the series.

Dany is one of the most shielded characters from this, as she's always viewed from her own point of view or from the point of view of those who love her. I guess the same could be said about Robb. And still some people will dislike them.

Now for Jorah specifically... He's not as bad as the Mountain, sure. But still he seems to be quite dishonorable, and he was probably spying on Dany even after he presented himself as her ally. Then he fell in love with her.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

I believe she was already topless before he made the move.

Of course in its own way that might make it even creepier.

Really? Well I gotta go Reread that chapter than. And yes that makes it slightly more creepy.

[Ser Greg of House House]

Really? Well I gotta go Reread that chapter than. And yes that makes it slightly more creepy.

Yeah, there was some boob stuff. I don't remember if he grabbed them or anything, but they were exposed. I don't think we can say he raped her or tried to, but Dany is uncomfortable. He, an older man, was trying to force his way on a child. It's somewhere between a kiss and rape, and it's very creepy.

Not that Drogo was any better, though... And I still don't quite understand how Drogo became her "sun and stars". Anyway I believe she's mad, so...

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

Yeah, there was some boob stuff. I don't remember if he grabbed them or anything, but they were exposed. I don't think we can say he raped her or tried to, but Dany is uncomfortable. He, an older man, was trying to force his way on a child. It's somewhere between a kiss and rape, and it's very creepy.

Not that Drogo was any better, though... And I still don't quite understand how Drogo became her "sun and stars". Anyway I believe she's mad, so...

i consider it Stockholm Sydrome

[Winter's Knight]

Yeah, there was some boob stuff. I don't remember if he grabbed them or anything, but they were exposed. I don't think we can say he raped her or tried to, but Dany is uncomfortable. He, an older man, was trying to force his way on a child. It's somewhere between a kiss and rape, and it's very creepy.

Not that Drogo was any better, though... And I still don't quite understand how Drogo became her "sun and stars". Anyway I believe she's mad, so...

I think with Drogo it started as a coping mechanism that she ended up believing in. Because I prefer that explanation over Martin having written a Dothraki version of the Sheikh.

[Jory Cassel]

How is Jorah whining? He just wants to go home. Yes he is a slaver, but he only sold guys who other wise would have been sent to the wall and probably many would prefer to be a slave in warm Essos than frozen to death on the wall. He has paid the price for that by being branded a slave.

so potential temperature preference is now sufficient justification to circumvent the law and expose someone to inhumane treatment by making him someone's property?

(this "argument" is bs anyway, reversely it can be argued that a Northman used to Bear Island will be highly uncomfortable in Volantis or Slaver's Bay whereas the wall provides a climate similar to BI )

[LordFirkraag]

The Puritan-feminist hysteria in this thread is simply mind-boggling.

Tyrion has raped a servant, strangled a woman to death, and expressed the intent to rape and murder his sister. Yet he inspires nowhere near the same degree of loathing that Jorah does...presumably for no other reason than that the Puritan-feminist angle with Jorah is more consistent.

Joran, how dare you be attracted to underage girls! You must be a monster! That seems to be the essential position of the majority of commenters in this thread.

Give it a rest, learn to think for yourselves, and stop trying to outdo the Catholic Church in policing other people's sexual activity.

[Ice_Specter]

Tyrion has raped a servant, strangled a woman to death, and expressed the intent to rape and murder his sister. Yet he inspires nowhere near the same degree of loathing that Jorah does...presumably for no other reason than that the Puritan-feminist angle with Jorah is more consistent.

I also don't see Drogo or Sandor getting this amount of loathing either.... I think its because Dany doesn't like him back. But still

[Nictarion]

I also don't see Drogo or Sandor getting this amount of loathing either.... I think its because Dany doesn't like him back. But still

Drogo is pretty well hated around here.

[Ice_Specter]

Drogo is pretty well hated around here.

Really? I haven't noticed anything. Dudes a barbarian and rapist and I haven't seen him get as much hate to be honest

[Nictarion]

Really? I haven't noticed anything. Dudes a barbarian and rapist and I haven't seen him get as much hate to be honest

Just wait. I honestly don't ever see anyone that does like him.

[Winter's Knight]

Really? I haven't noticed anything. Dudes a barbarian and rapist and I haven't seen him get as much hate to be honest

Because he's boring-we don't talk about him, just like we don't go on and on about what a scumbag Gregor is-opinion is fairly united. There are several threads on how awful Tyrion is.

[Guillotine]

The Puritan-feminist hysteria in this thread is simply mind-boggling.

Tyrion has raped a servant, strangled a woman to death, and expressed the intent to rape and murder his sister. Yet he inspires nowhere near the same degree of loathing that Jorah does...presumably for no other reason than that the Puritan-feminist angle with Jorah is more consistent.

Joran, how dare you be attracted to underage girls! You must be a monster! That seems to be the essential position of the majority of commenters in this thread.

Give it a rest, learn to think for yourselves, and stop trying to outdo the Catholic Church in policing other people's sexual activity.

welcome to the boards

[Jasta11]

I also don't see Drogo or Sandor getting this amount of loathing either.... I think its because Dany doesn't like him back. But still

I noticed the double standards too. I guess it's because the two were liked back (in some very disturbing ways IMO) so it makes it all good somehow. It's a big reason why I will never understand stuff like the SanSan ship.

But anyhow. I think the simple explanation is that Jorah ain't cool or larger-than-life enough. Drogo is a multi-rapist, mass-enslaving barbarian asshole, but he's a massive badass who makes nice speeches so it's OK for Dany to fall in love with him. Sandor is a very creepy child murderer, but he has some good lines and helps Sansa/Arya so it's forgiven. You also have people like Tyrion or Jaime who are very liked despite arguably being even bigger creeps or scumbags than Jorah, but they have interesting story arcs and witty lines.

Not that I'm complaining about fan reaction. It's just logical to like characters like that rather than more down to earth ones. But I definitely see accusations levied at Jorah that aren't levied towards many characters who deserve them more IMO.

[David Selig]

The Puritan-feminist hysteria in this thread is simply mind-boggling.

Tyrion has raped a servant, strangled a woman to death, and expressed the intent to rape and murder his sister. Yet he inspires nowhere near the same degree of loathing that Jorah does...presumably for no other reason than that the Puritan-feminist angle with Jorah is more consistent.

What? This is one of the very few anti Jorah thread I've ever seen on this board in years. Tyrion has had an awful lot more of these. And the most active anti-Jorah posters have posted a lot more against Tyrion. I personally think Tyrion is a lot bigger scumbag for sure.

[Guillotine]

What? This is one of the very few anti Jorah thread I've ever seen on this board in years. Tyrion has had an awful lot more of these. And the most active anti-Jorah posters have posted a lot more against Tyrion. I personally think Tyrion is a lot bigger scumbag for sure.

but if those two and Drogo are scumbags, who do you root for?

every character in the series bar Sansa is directly responsible for a number of deaths.

[LordFirkraag]

In the threads about Tyrion, about 50% of the commentariat will call him a scumbag, and about 50% will leap to his defence.

In this Jorah thread, it's more like 95% of the commentariat calling him a scumbag.

I'm extremely distressed to learn that so many people seem to be too addled by neo-Victorian morals to grasp the elementary point that you can't judge characters from the Middle Ages or from Westeros by 21st century standards.

[Ice_Specter]

I noticed the double standards too. I guess it's because the two were liked back (in some very disturbing ways IMO) so it makes it all good somehow. It's a big reason why I will never understand stuff like the SanSan ship.

But anyhow. I think the simple explanation is that Jorah ain't cool or larger-than-life enough. Drogo is a multi-rapist, mass-enslaving barbarian asshole, but he's a massive badass who makes nice speeches so it's OK for Dany to fall in love with him. Sandor is a very creepy child murderer, but he has some good lines and helps Sansa/Arya so it's forgiven. You also have people like Tyrion or Jaime who are very liked despite arguably being even bigger creeps or scumbags than Jorah, but they have interesting story arcs and witty lines.

Not that I'm complaining about fan reaction. It's just logical to like characters like that rather than more down to earth ones. But I definitely see accusations levied at Jorah that aren't levied towards many characters who deserve them more IMO.

I can understand if someone thinks a character is more interesting or complex but if both are guilty of behaving a certain way then they should both be criticized for it. I don't think being a "badass" or having witty liners should excuse your enormities. Avoiding biased behavior and double standards is essential for a series full of grey characters.

[LordFirkraag]

Drogo is pretty well hated around here.

The idea of going to the trouble of "hating" Drogo is itself pretty laughable.

Do you realize what an unrealistic, freakish, one-in-a-billion genius Drogo would have to be to conform to 21st century morals even though he lives and was brought up in a savage and barbarian culture?

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

In the threads about Tyrion, about 50% of the commentariat will call him a scumbag, and about 50% will leap to his defence.

In this Jorah thread, it's more like 95% of the commentariat calling him a scumbag.

I'm extremely distressed to learn that so many people seem to be too addled by neo-Victorian morals to grasp the elementary point that you can't judge characters from the Middle Ages or from Westeros by 21st century standards.

It's really quite mind boggling.