Whats up with the Jorah dislike?

[Nictarion]

but if those two and Drogo are scumbags, who do you root for?

every character in the series bar Sansa is directly responsible for a number of deaths.

There are more than just Sansa, Sam for one.

[The guy from the Vale]

Puddles begs to differ there :-P

[David Selig]

In the threads about Tyrion, about 50% of the commentariat will call him a scumbag, and about 50% will leap to his defence.

In this Jorah thread, it's more like 95% of the commentariat calling him a scumbag.

Jorah has no PoV and he's not funny. That's the difference.

I'm extremely distressed to learn that so many people seem to be too addled by neo-Victorian morals to grasp the elementary point that you can't judge characters from the Middle Ages or from Westeros by 21st century standards.

Sure I can. It's very easy. And you know Martin wrote the series for modern readers, right?

[Sansa_Stark]

There are more than just Sansa, Sam for one.

Define deaths then

That other he slew counts as a death.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

One could argue Sansa is responsible for Lady's death

[Sansa_Stark]

One could argue Sansa is responsible for Lady's death

One could argue Sansa is responsible for N-*is shot*

[Nictarion]

Puddles begs to differ there :-P

Screw puddles, he had it coming.

[David Selig]

One could argue Sansa is responsible for Lady's death

It was a wolf, who gives a damn.

[Nictarion]

Define deaths then

That other he slew counts as a death.

That's hardly "a number of deaths".

[Winter's Knight]

Are Others even alive to begin with? :P

Come on guys, you're reading a grimdark series populated with grey characters and you're complaining about who to root for?

[LordFirkraag]

Jorah has no PoV and he's not funny. That's the difference.

Sure I can. It's very easy. And you know Martin wrote the series for modern readers, right?

Well have fun judging every character in the series as a scumbag.

[DaarioKnowsBest]

It was a wolf, who gives a damn.

A lot of people gave a damn about Lady dying

[Sansa_Stark]

Are Others even alive to begin with? :P

Come on guys, you're reading a grimdark series populated with grey characters and you're complaining about who to root for?

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/others

"The Others are not dead. They are strange, beautiful… think, oh… the Sidhe made of ice, something like that… a different sort of life… inhuman, elegant, dangerous." ^[4]

Yep

That's hardly "a number of deaths".

Fair enough.

[Mark Antony]

It was a wolf, who gives a damn.

Regardless Sansa was not responsible

[Sansa_Stark]

Let's not turn this into a Sansa topic guys.

We barely have good discussion about Jorah the Slaver.

[David Selig]

Well have fun judging every character in the series as a scumbag.

Quite a few of them are very far from it by any standards.

Besides, Jorah is a scumbag by the Westerosi standards too. He's a slaver and a honorless traitor.

A lot of people gave a damn about Lady dying

I know, bad attempt at sarcasm.

[Le Cygne]

Context for ages in Westeros the author made clear here:

"You were a child or you were an adult. And the onset of sexual maturity meant you were an adult. So I reflected that in the books."

http://shelf-life.ew.com/2011/07/12/george-martin-talks-a-dance-with-dragons/

One can fight it or go along with it. Dany wants to have sex at 13, at 14, at 15, and to deny that is to deny the story. One can pretend she doesn't, for whatever reasons, but that's not the way the story was written, as the author has said repeatedly.

After which she dwells on what him putting his cock inside her would feel like...

and bless her she tries several times but his face kept turning into her Drogo.

The scene unfolds quite differently. She quite simply does not desire him. Is she lonely and does she miss a man kissing her and making love to her, sure. She's put these thoughts aside, and she doesn't want to anymore. But she doesn't want Jorah. And she's not dwelling on his cock inside her, as you say, nor picturing his face in her fantasies at all, this "more comely" face she pictures in the narrative is to set up the introduction of Daario, who she calls "beautiful" (and still refers to as "her love" after thinking about him a dozen times in her last chapter in the series to date).

What Dany wanted she could not begin to say, but Jorahs kiss had woken something in her, something that had been sleeping since Khal Drogo died. Lying abed in her narrow bunk, she found herself wondering how it would be to have a man squeezed in beside her in place of her handmaid, and the thought was more exciting than it should have been. Sometimes she would close her eyes and dream of him, but it was never Jorah Mormont she dreamed of; her lover was always younger and more comely, though his face remained a shifting shadow...

The next day, it all seemed a dream. And what did Ser Jorah have to do with it, if anything? It is Drogo I want, my sun-and-stars, Dany reminded herself. Not Irri, and not Ser Jorah, only Drogo. Drogo was dead, though. Shed thought these feelings had died with him there in the red waste, but one treacherous kiss had somehow brought them back to life. He should never have kissed me. He presumed too much, and I permitted it. It must never happen again.

[Queen Daenerys Stormborn]

I like Jorah. He's a pretty interesting character. Not a good guy by any means, although I don't see him as a massive creep. He only hit on Dany when she was a Queen and leading her small khalasar. He was a very good advisor and I hope he gets back to Dany by the end.

edit: and no, I am not influenced by the show about this. I see the book character as very different.

[Nictarion]

It's obviously ridiculous to apply 21st century Western morals to people from entirely different cultures.

How are we not supposed to judge things like slavery, and marital rape. Just because they were normal in those cultures doesn't mean we should be ok with them.

[bluntraven]

Is Jorah meant to be that likable? Dany's first observation about him is that he's old and ugly and bald. If he wasn't from Westeros I doubt she would have ever spoken to him. Then we find out that he's a double agent and a fugitive slaver in the next Ned chapter, very early on in GoT. From the start it seems like GRRM wants us to distrust him and be a little repulsed, and he only gets creepier as the series progresses. What's up with the people who actually like this guy would be a better question.