Targaryen Dragons

[Fire Eater]

wait is it confirmed that it is in 10 AC that Rhaenys and her Dragon died?

It is 4 AC, and her and Meraxes did die in Dorne

[Rhaegar Targaryen II]

Not in anything officially released, as far as I can remember.

oh ok thanks

[RumHam]

It is 4 AC, and her and Meraxes did die in Dorne

Where did that date come from?

[Ser Creighton]

Where did that date come from?

Apparently "A world of ice and fire." though it also says she had children in 7 and 8/9 AC, maybe you should ask Ran over some Cheese Doodles.

Also the World of Ice and Fire is listed.

Though I looked at the app and it doesn't say anything about it. The date is on the wiki page but she clearly didn't die then.

[Brian Boru Brightflame]

later

[RumHam]

Apparently "A world of ice and fire." though it also says she had children in 7 and 8/9 AC, maybe you should ask Ran over some Cheese Doodles.

Also the World of Ice and Fire is listed.

Though I looked at the app and it doesn't say anything about it. The date is on the wiki page but she clearly didn't die then.

It gets confusing with the wiki citations because people use the World of Ice and Fire to refer to the app and the book. Even though Ran doesn't want anything from the worldbook to be on there until after a three month spoiler period.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

It is 4 AC, and her and Meraxes did die in Dorne

4AC is listed in the app as the start of the war against Dorne.

Rhaenys dies later, but this is described, as RumHam said, is samples that were unofficially released.

Apparently "A world of ice and fire." though it also says she had children in 7 and 8/9 AC, maybe you should ask Ran over some Cheese Doodles.

Also the World of Ice and Fire is listed.

Though I looked at the app and it doesn't say anything about it. The date is on the wiki page but she clearly didn't die then.

All world book stuff from unofficial samples has been removed from the wiki, but clearly someone missed a spot.;)

[Grievous]

Re: the dragons and riders that went north (originally a reply in this thread)

Known for certain:

Jaeharys on Vermithor

Alysanne on Silverwing

Likely possibilities:

Rhaenys (b. 74 AC) on Meleys

Viserys (b. 77) on Balerion

Daemon (b. 81) on Carexas

Uncertainties:

Vhagar, with an unknown rider (possibly either Aemon or Baelon)

Dreamfyre, with an unknown rider (possibly either Aemon or Baelon)

One of the pairings listed above was NOT there, but we don't know which pair. Note that Aemon died in 92 AC and Baelon died in 101 AC. It is possibly Aemon was already dead when the dragons went north (less likely with Baelon, considering the later date). If both of them were there, then Daemon - as the youngest of the bunch - seems most likely to have been absent. Of course, there might also be some additional, impossible to account for with current knowledge wrench in the works.

This speculation seems to pretty conclusively point to Aemon and Baelon riding both Vhagar and Dreamfyre, though the exact pairing is unknown. I'm gonna speculatively say Aemon-Vhagar, since Laena was his grandchild.

[RumHam]

Re: the dragons and riders that went north (originally a reply in this thread)

Known for certain:

Jaeharys on Vermithor

Alysanne on Silverwing

Likely possibilities:

Rhaenys (b. 74 AC) on Meleys

Viserys (b. 77) on Balerion

Daemon (b. 81) on Carexas

Uncertainties:

Vhagar, with an unknown rider (possibly either Aemon or Baelon)

Dreamfyre, with an unknown rider (possibly either Aemon or Baelon)

I think you should add Rhaena as a possible rider of Dreamfyre. She's the only previous rider of the dragon mentioned in The Princess and The Queen.

[Grievous]

Rhaena was probably dead by then, possibly killed by Maegor, but of course we're not sure at this point.

The above speculation about the dragons of the north is based on the idea that Jaeharys I and Alicent went there quite late in their reigns, around 90 AC or so. It's entirely possibly that they went there at a much earlier period, from 48 AC onwards, before the birth (or adolescence) of his grandchildren. In that case, we are looking at the following dragons and riders:

Certain:

Jaeharys on Vermithor

Alysanne on Silverwing

Dragons that are known to be alive at that period:

Balerion, unknown rider

Vhagar, unknown rider

Dreamfyre, unknown rider

We are not certain of any other named dragon being alive and/or ridden at this point, but we know at least one dragon was active with a likely rider. Meleys and Caraxes are good candidates.

We have nine children of Jaeharys (we know of Aemon, Baelon, Daella, Saera and are missing five names) possibly active at this point, so it is 1) quite obvious at least some of them were among the riders and 2) possible that there were more dragons that somehow escaped mention in latter times.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Well, I think, until we know if Rhaena survived Maegor or not, she and Dreamfyre can still be added to the list. We now know she was born in 23AC, so if she survived Maegor, she could have lived quite a long time through Jaehaerys' reign, age-wise.

[RumHam]

I did some thinking about which dragons the nineteen skulls in the Red Keep belonged to. I figured this was as good a place as any to post what I came up with.

Definite: - These are confirmed to be among the skulls by Tyrion

3,000 year old skull, possibly first Targaryen dragon Skull

Balerion

Vhagar

Meraxes

Last Dragon #1

Last Dragon #2

Almost definite:

Meleys - Her head was brought back to King's Landing during the Dance.

Probably: - these dragons died during the Dance and their skulls could have easily been recovered.

Vermithor

Arrax - body washed up on shore

Seasmoke

Moondancer

Sunfyre

Tessarion

Stormcloud

Less Probably:

Silverwing - fate unknown

Syrax - Could the rabble have carried off the head?

Unknown dragon that survived dance - fate unknown.

Grey Ghost - wild

Unlikely: - Crushed by "tons of stone" in the Dragonpit. probably not recovered.

Dreamfyre

Morghul

Shrykos

Tyraxes

Extremely unlikely:

Cannibal - Fate unknown, wild

Sheepstealer - Fate unknown, wild.

Vermax- Sank in ocean.

Other possibilities:

-Hypothetical dragon between surviving healthy dance-era dragons and the last dragons. Something smaller but not quite so fucked up.

-Four non-Balerion dragons that escaped Valyria.

-Other pre-Doom dragons that were historically important to the family.

-The dragon of one of Jaehaerys' kids that we just haven't heard of.

[Arataniello]

4AC is listed in the app as the start of the war against Dorne.

Rhaenys dies later, but this is described, as RumHam said, is samples that were unofficially released.

All world book stuff from unofficial samples has been removed from the wiki, but clearly someone missed a spot. ;)

Based on the LonCon reading, we know that Aenys was born in 7AC, and his mother died when he was three. Thefefore, Rhaenys died in 10AC.

I have started work on a spreadsheet to try and at least track the riders of all dragons, as well as hatchings and deaths of the beasts, in an attempt to reconcile everything. My first thought is that Balerion MUST have had a rider between the death of Maegor the Cruel (in 48AC) and becoming the mount of Viserys I. Viserys I (careful to not confuse him with Viserys son of Aenys) was born in around 76-77AC. There is thus a forty year gap in the ridership of Balerion.

My money is on one of the offspring of Jaehaerys who has not yet been named.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Based on the LonCon reading, we know that Aenys was born in 7AC, and his mother died when he was three. Thefefore, Rhaenys died in 10AC.

I have started work on a spreadsheet to try and at least track the riders of all dragons, as well as hatchings and deaths of the beasts, in an attempt to reconcile everything. My first thought is that Balerion MUST have had a rider between the death of Maegor the Cruel (in 48AC) and becoming the mount of Viserys I. Viserys I (careful to not confuse him with Viserys son of Aenys) was born in around 76-77AC. There is thus a forty year gap in the ridership of Balerion.

My money is on one of the offspring of Jaehaerys who has not yet been named.

Possibly Aemon.. Aemon died in 92, right, and Viserys would have been around 15 years old by then.. The perfect age for trying to claim such a big beast.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Re: the dragons and riders that went north (originally a reply in this thread)

Known for certain:

Jaeharys on Vermithor

Alysanne on Silverwing

Likely possibilities:

Rhaenys (b. 74 AC) on Meleys

Viserys (b. 77) on Balerion

Daemon (b. 81) on Carexas

Uncertainties:

Vhagar, with an unknown rider (possibly either Aemon or Baelon)

Dreamfyre, with an unknown rider (possibly either Aemon or Baelon)

One of the pairings listed above was NOT there, but we don't know which pair. Note that Aemon died in 92 AC and Baelon died in 101 AC. It is possibly Aemon was already dead when the dragons went north (less likely with Baelon, considering the later date). If both of them were there, then Daemon - as the youngest of the bunch - seems most likely to have been absent. Of course, there might also be some additional, impossible to account for with current knowledge wrench in the works.

This speculation seems to pretty conclusively point to Aemon and Baelon riding both Vhagar and Dreamfyre, though the exact pairing is unknown. I'm gonna speculatively say Aemon-Vhagar, since Laena was his grandchild.

Hey cool thread Grievous!

And I love your handle :) one of the best things from Episode 3

I bet we get a ton more info for this in October :cool4:

[Mithras]

Drogon was always bigger than the other even before the chaining. I think dragons are like normal living beings in the sense that just like some people have larger built or different features than the others, dragons vary in color and size.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Drogon was always bigger than the other even before the chaining. I think dragons are like normal living beings in the sense that just like some people have larger built or different features than the others, dragons vary in color and size.

For sure they are, For instance right from the beginning we could tell Drogon would be huge. But I think a dragon like Dreamfyre would never get as big as Balerion or Vhargar no matter how long she lived.

[The Dragon Demands]

This is a good thread.

1 - TPATQ pretty much established that the 19 dragon skulls don't directly correspond to all Targaryen dragons there ever were. Some such as Vermax died at sea. Even the original text said that some were three *thousand* years old skulls brought as relics from Valyria to Dragonstone. So the number isn't an indication of anything and any attempt to match numbers is futile.

2 - If the app says that the renewed campaign against Dorne began in 4 AC, it was a drawn out conflict; other sources and public readings confirm that Rhaenys and Meraxes died in 10 AC.

3 - I asked Elyo specifically about Meraxes's skull being bigger than Vhagar - he pretty much established that Vhagar's presence in the Dance is a later addition to the mythos. The official explanation is that sometimes dragons just grew faster or slower...much like people. So the wink and a grin explanation is that if Vhagar managed to reach nearly Balerion's size during the Dance (Balerion's size during the original conquest), and if Meraxes's skull is bigger than Vhagar's when she died fighting Caraxes, that officially, Meraxes just happened to grow really fast and nearly reach Balerion's size before being killed in Dorne. That's the most explanation we're ever going to get.

Only four dragons survived the Dance. Silverwing was the only "functional" dragon at the time, but left riderless. The Cannibal had never been ridden and I'm curious if anyone ever managed to later ride such a monster. Sheepstealer "survived" but was also "never seen again"....so at the least, it never influenced history and politics again, so it's not like the battle that ended the Dance will include the miraculous re-appearance of Sheepstealer. There was a fourth one but it hasn't shown up yet - strongly indicating that it hatched *during* the Dance because Gyldayn gave a thorough head count at the beginning. I strongly suspect that it was one of Rhaena of Pentos's three eggs at the Eyrie.

[The Dragon Demands]

Dragons confirmed to have had more than one rider during the course of their lives:

We don't know if the original three Targaryen dragons had previous riders before the Conquest: as the eldest and the only one not hatched on Dragonstone, Balerion probably had other riders.

Balerion

• Aegon I, the Conqueror
  
• Maegor the Cruel, immediately following his father Aegon I, until Maegor's death in 48 AC.
  
• Viserys I, last rider of Balerion before it died of old age in 94 AC.
  

Vhagar

• Visenya - died around the end of Maegor's reign.
  
• Laena Velaryon - daughter of Rhaenys-grandaughter-of-Jaehaerys, Queen Who Never Was. Laena rode Vhagar from when she was age 12 in 105 AC, until her death in 120 AC.
  
• Aemond Targaryen rode Vhagar immediately after Laena, until the death of both fighting Daemon and Caraxes.
  

Quicksilver

• First ridden by Aenys I, until his death. Probably no previous riders as Aenys bonded with him 10 years after the Conquest.
  
• Aenys I's eldest son Aegon subsequently rode Quicksilver, until both were killed by Maegor and Balerion. Exactly how Quicksilver came to Aegon after his father died is unclear.
  

Dreamfyre

• Ridden by Aenys I's daughter and eldest child, Rhaena (who was later forcibly married by Maegor and quite probably killed, and thus called his "Black Bride").
  
• Later ridden by Helaena Targaryen just prior to the death of both during the Dance, though it participated in no major battles.
  

Vermithor

• Ridden by King Jaehaerys I, the Conciliator
  
• Retired on Dragonstone at the beginning of the Dance, later ridden by Hard Hugh Hammer until the death of both at the Second Battle of Tumbleton.
  

Silverwing

• Ridden by Good Queen Alysanne, sister-wife of Jaehaerys I. Vermithor and Silverwing were a mated pair, like their riders.
  
• Retired on Dragonstone at the beginning of the Dance, later ridden by Ulf the Sot. After Ulf drank poisoned wine after the Second Battle of Tumbleton, Silverwing was left riderless.
  

Seasmoke

• Ridden by Laenor Velaryon until his death in 120 AC.
  
• Apparently left riderless in retirement on Dragonstone until the Dance in 129 AC, in which it was ridden by Addam Velaryon, until the death of both at the Second Battle of Tumbleton.
  

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

3 - I asked Elyo specifically about Meraxes's skull being bigger than Vhagar - he pretty much established that Vhagar's presence in the Dance is a later addition to the mythos. The official explanation is that sometimes dragons just grew faster or slower...much like people. So the wink and a grin explanation is that if Vhagar managed to reach nearly Balerion's size during the Dance (Balerion's size during the original conquest), and if Meraxes's skull is bigger than Vhagar's when she died fighting Caraxes, that officially, Meraxes just happened to grow really fast and nearly reach Balerion's size before being killed in Dorne. That's the most explanation we're ever going to get.

Did Ran also say whether Meraxes was older than Vhagar?