Things the Viewing Unsullied are missing (BOOK SPOILERS)

[iknownothingjonsnow]

Pretty sure all of this is mentioned in the show! Just takes careful watching to pick all of the points up :)

It was and it wasn't.

I don't remember Viserys being given an even remotely comprehensive background, any mention of Tywin trying to arrange Cersei with Rhaegar, or how that facilitated Robert's rebellion. Rhaegar was just mentioned this week, but I doubt many unsullied know he was Dany's brother or can explain how she ended up alive in Essos while he and their father died in Westeros.

The stuff they have covered was usually by way of an out-of-context overview while something more interesting was going on onscreen, e.g. Tywin on Tytos: "I grew up with him. I watched him grow old. He loved us. He was a good man, but a weak man. A weak man who nearly destroyed our house and name." That came while Arya was stealing his scroll. I'd be surprised if 1 in 100 unsullied even heard what Tywin said, let alone processed how that influence may have shaped the man Charles Dance portrays.

I understand this is basic stuff and that it sounds like I'm criticizing the show - I'm not. The question is "what non-spoilers are the unsullied missing," and I think many, if not most, are probably missing a lot of the connective tissue between the shows many storylines.

More in the spirit of the OP (these aren't great):

- Ayra named her direwolf after Queen Nymeria of the Rhoyne, Nymeria now being a somewhat common name.

- The bastard names from regions other than the North are: Waters, Pyke, Rivers, Stone, Hill, Flowers, Storm, and Sand.

- Cat's brother Edmure is the one who gave Littlefinger his nickname.

- When Cat became engaged to Ned's brother Littlefinger challenged him to a duel, got his butt kicked, and would have been killed if Cat hadn't pleaded for Brandon to spare him.

[Skythe1]

I think a lot of things are alluded to in the show, and as a book reader I guess it's quite hard to not pick up on those little bits of dialogue and insights.

With the Littlefinger and Brandon duel for example, doesn't Ned say something (on the show) to the effect of he'll finish the job Brandon started when he takes him to the whorehouse and says that Cat is inside?

The most annoying thing for me is how little we get of the Blackfish in the show.

[Annara Snow]

It was and it wasn't.

I don't remember Viserys being given an even remotely comprehensive background, any mention of Tywin trying to arrange Cersei with Rhaegar, or how that facilitated Robert's rebellion. Rhaegar was just mentioned this week, but I doubt many unsullied know he was Dany's brother or can explain how she ended up alive in Essos while he and their father died in Westeros.

The stuff they have covered was usually by way of an out-of-context overview while something more interesting was going on onscreen, e.g. Tywin on Tytos: "I grew up with him. I watched him grow old. He loved us. He was a good man, but a weak man. A weak man who nearly destroyed our house and name." That came while Arya was stealing his scroll. I'd be surprised if 1 in 100 unsullied even heard what Tywin said, let alone processed how that influence may have shaped the man Charles Dance portrays.

I understand this is basic stuff and that it sounds like I'm criticizing the show - I'm not. The question is "what non-spoilers are the unsullied missing," and I think many, if not most, are probably missing a lot of the connective tissue between the shows many storylines.

More in the spirit of the OP (these aren't great):

- Ayra named her direwolf after Queen Nymeria of the Rhoyne, Nymeria now being a somewhat common name.

- The bastard names from regions other than the North are: Waters, Pyke, Rivers, Stone, Hill, Flowers, Storm, and Sand.

- Cat's brother Edmure is the one who gave Littlefinger his nickname.

- When Cat became engaged to Ned's brother Littlefinger challenged him to a duel, got his butt kicked, and would have been killed if Cat hadn't pleaded for Brandon to spare him.

They mentioned the duel between Brandon and LF several times. LF talks about it the first moment he meets Ned on the show, and he talks about it in his infamous sexposition monologue.

[iknownothingjonsnow]

They mentioned the duel between Brandon and LF several times. LF talks about it the first moment he meets Ned on the show, and he talks about it in his infamous sexposition monologue.

You're right. The first conversation is worthless, but Littlefinger does give a rather nice summation of the event later in his brothel.

The nice thing about the West Wing's walk-and-talks is that they infused energy into the scene without pulling focus. I can't help but wonder how effective Aaron Sorkin's dialogue would have been had Martin Sheen been pondering the virtue of a proportional response behind a pair of naked lesbians climaxing against each other on the conference table in the Situation Room.

At the same time, I suppose that probably would have gotten more teenagers to take an interest in politics...

[Le Cygne]

Maybe I'm alone in this since everyone and their moms are loving Arya and Sandor's dynamic in the show (don't get me wrong, I think it's great), but I think their relationship in the books is just explosive. Like, how they hate each other's guts and they're both so violent and hateful and it makes more sense when Arya leaves him to die. I don't know I just love how they never quite reach a state of grudging respect or true concern for each other (unlike Jaime and Brienne), but how they're just two enemies that have to work together.

There was a lot of subtlety in the book relationship, I think they are bringing out the subtext and making it explicit on the show. Show Arya is 2 years older, and not as clueless as book Arya. But even book Arya caught on.

When she was about to hit him with a rock, she said he took it from her like a baby and gave her another chance. After a while of this, she came to realize he wasn't going to hurt her. When she hit him below the belt by saying he lost his belly for fighting, that was the maddest he ever got, and all he did was toss her the food he caught and cooked for her.

She stayed with him even though she kept saying he didn't care if she ran off or not. When they were about to go into the inn, she thought to herself, here's my chance, I can leave. And she thinks we shouldn't go in here. But what does she do? She follows him into danger. And then she still doesn't leave, she defends him, he would have died if she hadn't.

And then after he passes out, she doesn't leave then, either, she finishes caring for his wounds. And she takes him off her list, and asks why she did that, and thinks she barely knew Mycah. But she's come to know the Hound, is the subtext. And she thinks, I could just leave, "I wouldn't have to kill him."

And all through this she starts calling him Sandor. And then she can't bring herself to kill him. And her parting shot is, you should have saved my life better, you should have saved my mother. That's like saying you should have been a superhero. So yeah, she wasn't fond of him, but there was something going on there.

She was conflicted when she left him.

[Winnief]

Also since Kevan's been kinda invisible on the show, it might be a surprise to viewers how important he becomes after Tywin's death, since so far he's just been in the background and so it might not have registered that Twyin always consider Kevan his right hand man and go to guy for everything-or that Kevan is Lancel's father, and based on what he's heard from his son, is probably already starting to resent the hell out of Cersei by now.

[PhoenixFlame]

There was a lot of subtlety in the book relationship, I think they are bringing out the subtext and making it explicit on the show. Show Arya is 2 years older, and not as clueless as book Arya. But even book Arya caught on.

*clipped*

JA!

I know some people are quick to say, "she left him to die because she's merciless." I never read it that way. Sure, a part of her dislikes him, but my first thought was "heh, she can't bring herself to actually kill him." She snarks about wolves finding him as self-assurance, and doesn't look back because she doesn't want the chance to reconsider. Some people certainly disagree, but that was always my read.

Also since Kevan's been kinda invisible on the show, it might be a surprise to viewers how important he becomes after Tywin's death, since so far he's just been in the background and so it might not have registered that Twyin always consider Kevan his right hand man and go to guy for everything-or that Kevan is Lancel's father, and based on what he's heard from his son, is probably already starting to resent the hell out of Cersei by now.

If he's included,, I'm really curious about how they'll write him. "Tywin's bro" is going to endlessly be compared to Charles Dance. I can already hear "pfft, beta Tywin 'cause the show needs a stable chessmaster." I'm guessing his personality will be more pronounced. Not disparate from his book counterpart, but more colorful. Like, they took "ice cold golden Tywin" and crafted "charismatic ruthless silverfox Tywin."

I did wonder if they might combine his role with Pycelle (considering they die at the same time), but the show's included almost everyone who wasn't a throwaway or a Scrappy. (I'm looking at you, Strong Belwas)

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I can't quote everything, but many many thanks to all guys. I think I know now where to start, for example, guest rights, Stannis and his parents, the bastards names, some background on the minor Lannisters, etc.

For instance, the tale of Proudwing could actually help Unsullied to understand Stannis better and it's not something spoilerish. I hope.

(and yes, more suggestions are appreciated)

[Good Guy Garlan]

There was a lot of subtlety in the book relationship, I think they are bringing out the subtext and making it explicit on the show. Show Arya is 2 years older, and not as clueless as book Arya. But even book Arya caught on.

When she was about to hit him with a rock, she said he took it from her like a baby and gave her another chance. After a while of this, she came to realize he wasn't going to hurt her. When she hit him below the belt by saying he lost his belly for fighting, that was the maddest he ever got, and all he did was toss her the food he caught and cooked for her.

She stayed with him even though she kept saying he didn't care if she ran off or not. When they were about to go into the inn, she thought to herself, here's my chance, I can leave. And she thinks we shouldn't go in here. But what does she do? She follows him into danger. And then she still doesn't leave, she defends him, he would have died if she hadn't.

And then after he passes out, she doesn't leave then, either, she finishes caring for his wounds. And she takes him off her list, and asks why she did that, and thinks she barely knew Mycah. But she's come to know the Hound, is the subtext. And she thinks, I could just leave, "I wouldn't have to kill him."

And all through this she starts calling him Sandor. And then she can't bring herself to kill him. And her parting shot is, you should have saved my life better, you should have saved my mother. That's like saying you should have been a superhero. So yeah, she wasn't fond of him, but there was something going on there.

She was conflicted when she left him.

Yeah, I agree. He just seems a bit nicer (or as nice as Sandor can get) on the show

Also, whoever mentioned the tale of Stannis' hawk (Proudwing, as it?), good suggestion. Until relatively recently I really understood how much about Stannis' character development that little exchange shows, and it really is just a tiny little part that conveys a lot about a character whole personality

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Yeah, I agree. He just seems a bit nicer (or as nice as Sandor can get) on the show

Also, whoever mentioned the tale of Stannis' hawk (Proudwing, as it?), good suggestion. Until relatively recently I really understood how much about Stannis' character development that little exchange shows, and it really is just a tiny little part that conveys a lot about a character whole personality

Also him being afraid of the dragons and thinking Tywin was the King. That's kinda cute.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Also him being afraid of the dragons and thinking Tywin was the King. That's kinda cute.

Oh, yeah. But I've always thought D&D could have used that story on Renly because it kind of shows his thinking that sometimes people who aren't kings would be better rulers that the actual kings, like Tywin being a good Hand, but Aerys being a mess of a king, which was in a way how Renly saw himself as the better king even though Stannis had a better claim

[maiden of tarth]

I have this problem with my husband. I have read the books and watched the show. My husband has only just watched the first episode this Monday after years of relentless nagging. He enjoyed the show but there were things he didn't get, such as that Robert was a king. He only twigged towards the end of the episode. I had to explain the scene with Robert visiting Lyannas' statue/grave and I had to explain what a Kings Hand is. I also struggled to explain who Jon Snow is as I am a firm believer of The Theory. Roll on episode two. I just want someone to discuss the theories with.

[Annara Snow]

If he's included,, I'm really curious about how they'll write him. "Tywin's bro" is going to endlessly be compared to Charles Dance. I can already hear "pfft, beta Tywin 'cause the show needs a stable chessmaster." I'm guessing his personality will be more pronounced. Not disparate from his book counterpart, but more colorful. Like, they took "ice cold golden Tywin" and crafted "charismatic ruthless silverfox Tywin."

Well, that's kind of the point with Kevan - even Varys calls him on it in that scene, when he says Kevan always followed Tywin in everything.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

The show as pretty systematically stripped out prophesy, small scale magic and foreshadowing unless absolutely necessary to the plot. I think this stems a lot from the show being in a bit of a defensive crouch about being fantasy in the first season (if you remember the old promo stuff from Season 1 soooooo much of it was "it's not REALLY fantasy, it's all about human relationships, no elves here, PLEASE PLEASE don't judge us for being fantasy, look boobies!"). The show's a bit beyond that now and is more confident but it's still going with how it started as a big change would seem a bit weird now so they're only very gradually letting the magic in.

:agree:

Exactly. They're afraid to do some of the major fantasy elements.They were afraid to actually show any other map but the Opening Title Sequence (or whatever you call it), so no one ever could tell what Robb's military strategy really was. In fact, I don't think he ever had one in S02. They had all those wonderful doors in the HotU, yet we didn't get a peek of Rhaegar or Aerys. (Aerys, with unkept hair and nails, doing the "Burn them all!" line from the show would have been great.) No Ghost of High Heart prophesies. No KotLT. (Having Shireen sing the Patchface Prophesies was a great idea, although I didn't like the tune.) They need to have confidence in the genre.

[Ser Not Appearing]

I'd say they missed the difference between Oberyn saying Rhaegar raped another woman and what he actually said.

... that he ran away with another woman ---> consensual ---> R+L=J

[iknownothingjonsnow]

I'd say they missed the difference between Oberyn saying Rhaegar raped another woman and what he actually said.

... that he ran away with another woman ---> consensual ---> R+L=J

Yeah, that's not what he said.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Pretty sure all of this is mentioned in the show! Just takes careful watching to pick all of the points up :)

I do think most all of that has been mentioned, except for Cersei thinking that Twyin could get her some Rhaegar, LOL

My main thing is, simply, The Dragon names. I can't for the life of me think of a reason they haven't done the simple thing of just letting her name them.

(If I think of anything that might be useful that hasn't come up, I'll post, still reading)

[ladysnowheart]

i watch the show with my sister in law and she's totally in the dark about wargs, skinchanging, wolf dreams...

i wonder if they're ever gonna show arya (and jon) warging, dreaming... i guess it should've been there by now...

[Ser Not Appearing]

Yeah, that's not what he said.

Yeah, I use quotation marks when making a direct quote.

I considered waiting until I got home and could make the direct quote after rewatching just to avoid this type of complaint. I decided against it. Probably a bad choice considering I'm talking about the difference in phrasing... but I'm impatient at best.

If you provide the exact quote, I'll be happy to point out that the point remains.

[iknownothingjonsnow]

Yeah, I use quotation marks when making a direct quote.

I considered waiting until I got home and could make the direct quote after rewatching just to avoid this type of complaint. I decided against it. Probably a bad choice considering I'm talking about the difference in phrasing... but I'm impatient at best.

If you provide the exact quote, I'll be happy to point out that the point remains.

I wasn't objecting to the syntax.

He said that Rhaegar Targaryen left his sister for another woman, not that he ran off with another woman. He offered no clarity whatsoever as to whether the 'other woman' was a willing participant in what occurred following.

So yeah, not so much with the point remaining...