When Is 'The World of Ice and Fire' Coming Out, Vol.3

[LordBloodraven]

Also, will we know more about Beron Stark's sons that were listed in the recent family tree? Donnor, Errold, Brandon, Alysanne, Berena? I hope they didn't die in the cradle. Any links with the Starks in Barrowton and White Harbour? Will it be fleshed out?

[atiggerx33]

I had a question, about Summerhall, I have reread the books a good amount of times, and I do not believe it ever goes into explicit detail what exactly happened at Summerhall. Will this be gone into in the WOIAF or is that something that will be revealed in later ASOIAF books or Fire & Blood books? Maybe I just missed something in the original books, I know there was a sickness there, but I don't think a sickness would "destroy" Summerhall, and I believe the sickness happened before Rhaegar's time, and yet he seems deeply touched by it, as if people he personally knew died there, so I have to assume something else also happened (or I'm just dense and missed something).

[RumHam]

I had a question, about Summerhall, I have reread the books a good amount of times, and I do not believe it ever goes into explicit detail what exactly happened at Summerhall. Will this be gone into in the WOIAF or is that something that will be revealed in later ASOIAF books or Fire & Blood books? Maybe I just missed something in the original books, I know there was a sickness there, but I don't think a sickness would "destroy" Summerhall, and I believe the sickness happened before Rhaegar's time, and yet he seems deeply touched by it, as if people he personally knew died there, so I have to assume something else also happened (or I'm just dense and missed something).

I think the Tragedy at Summerhall is the one thing we know will be redacted with an ink stain to preserve mystery for later Dunk & Egg stories.

[atiggerx33]

I think the Tragedy at Summerhall is the one thing we know will be redacted with an ink stain to preserve mystery for later Dunk & Egg stories.

Darn, I was really hoping, it's been eating at me to know exactly what happened. I understand why GRRM would want to keep it a mystery though. Perhaps it will be released in the Fire & Blood books even though we'll (hopefully) already know by then.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Darn, I was really hoping, it's been eating at me to know exactly what happened. I understand why GRRM would want to keep it a mystery though. Perhaps it will be released in the Fire & Blood books even though we'll (hopefully) already know by then.

I'm guessing in Dunk and Egg ;)

[Bael's Bastard]

I think it is pretty weak. WOIAF should give us the official story and alternative beliefs, but it can't tell us what really happened either way, what we've been told so far sounds like a made up cover up. Dunk and Egg would obviously give the personal perspective.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Ran, will the World book clear up the confusion around Grandmaester Geradys' death? He seems to be the Grandmaester when Viserys I dies according to Rogues, if I'm not mistaken, but in the Princess and the Queen Orwyle is the Grandmaester the night Viserys dies.

It seems logical that Gerardys is fed to Sunfyre after Viserys has died and Aegon has been crowned Aegon II, but with Orwyle the Grandmaester upon Viserys' death, it is currently a bit unclear (at least for me) when Gerardys meets his fate.

[Ran]

Fire and Blood may illuminate matters.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Too bad that is still many years away :) But I'll keep it in mind ;)

[Lord Varys]

Ran,

any chance that 'Fire and Blood', if it really appears after the ASoIaF is concluded (which seems to be the plan) will also cover the reigns of Jaehaerys II and Aerys II in detail? You already stated that Gyldayn's history only goes as far as Aegon V, but the editor of 'Fire and Blood' could add additional material to 'complete' Gyldayn's great history...

Speaking about that, an even more ambitious (and very grand) idea would be to move the 'in-universe publication' of 'Fire and Blood' some decades into the future after the series has concluded, enabling the editor to tell us about the future lives and eventual deaths of the (surviving) heroes of the story (pretty much everyone wants to know about the future of Arya, Sansa, Jon, Dany, Rickon, Shireen, etc should any of them survive). That would make most sense if a Targaryen ended up on the Iron Throne at the end of the series, but not only in this case.

JRRT concluded 'The Lord of the Rings' with both a look into the past and glimpse into the future, and so can GRRM (I guess).

[tze]

It seems logical that Gerardys is fed to Sunfyre after Viserys has died and Aegon has been crowned Aegon II, but with Orwyle the Grandmaester upon Viserys' death, it is currently a bit unclear (at least for me) when Gerardys meets his fate.

Given the reveal about Gerardys's connection to Rhaenyra, I think the most logical explanation is that Gerardys was fed to Sunfyre a bit before Viserys's death as preparation for that death. Any plans to put Aegon on the throne should have involved co-opting the Small Council in the Greens' favor well before Viserys actually died, and we know they supposedly had secured everyone except for old Lord Beesbury by the time Viserys died. If Gerardys was a strong partisan of Rhaenyra, as Rogues seems to indicate, the Greens would have needed him dead in order to facilitate the ascension of their own candidate for Grand Maester---Orwyle, presumably--in order to secure Green control of the Small Council and ensure Aegon's future ascension. (Moreover, if the Greens were in fact planning to poison Viserys . . . logically they'd need the Grand Maester---the person responsible for seeing to the King's health---in their pocket. And the last person they'd want around Viserys would be a Grand Maester known for his healing skills, for fear he'd save Viserys from the poison and scuttle the plot.)

Either Aegon kills Gerardys in secret (claiming that Gerardys got too close to Sunfyre and was "accidentally" eaten, perhaps?), or the Greens can move relatively freely here because Viserys is too sick and conflict-averse to punish Aegon, and Ser Otto is of course Hand.

But in general, given what we've seen, I think it makes the most sense for Gerardys to have been killed as part of the run-up to the Dance rather than post-Viserys's death.

[Lord Varys]

According to Varys, Grand Maester Gerardys was fed to the dragon 'of Aegon II (or the second Aegon)'. Since Varys does not exactly make mistakes with that kind of things - he knows his Targaryen history (for some strange reason) - it seems to be clear that it happened after Prince Aegon had been crowned, not exactly in preparation to the whole coup. And the Hightowers should already have controlled the Citadel in 127 AC - if they didn't do it there, then is no reason to believe that they could have forced to Conclave to elect their man - especially since Orwyle is the best candidate for the Black man on the Green Council in TPaQ - strongly suggesting that he and Gerardys are actually the same guy.

In my opinion, we are clearly talking about a small (or rather grand) continuity error here. Either Gerardys was supposed to be Orwyle in TRP, or the other way around. My original suggestion/thought was that Gardner Dozois merged Gerardys and Orwyle for simplicity sake in TPatQ (or completely omitted Gerardys' story from there). Another option would be that GRRM/Ran & Linda came up with another solution/idea for Gerardys' story and eventual demise that led to his omission from TPatQ, but due to an oversight an older manuscript of 'Fire and Blood' was used to prepare TRP for publication, leading to Gerardys appearing in there, when it should actually have been Orwyle.

I personally like the idea that the Conclave of the Citadel was able to make a Black Grand Maester shortly before the Dance. It shows that the Archmaesters really have balls from time to time... Thus I hope that, if Orwyle=False Gerardys turns out to be true, his story from TRP will not change (i.e. Orwyle-Gerardys being the former maester of Dragonstone and a great healer). 'Real Gerardys' - a guy we know nothing about whatsoever - would then be completely different person.

[Most of this theory is based on the fact that Ran has told me when TPatQ came out - as I've already posted elsewhere on the board - that Gerardys' story is 'secret history' not publicly discussed. This in itself is very intriguing, but whatever his story is, it should better fit into the narrow time frame where Aegon II reasonably could have fed 'Real Gerardys' to Sunfyre - i.e. before Aegon II and Sunfyre were permanently separated at Rook's Rest. In my opinion, Varys should better not look stupid when the 'true history of Gerardys is revealed But I'm biased here, I guess ;-).]

[tze]

According to Varys, Grand Maester Gerardys was fed to the dragon 'of Aegon II (or the second Aegon)'. Since Varys does not exactly make mistakes with that kind of things - he knows his Targaryen history (for some strange reason) - it seems to be clear that it happened after Prince Aegon had been crowned, not exactly in preparation to the whole coup.

That's . . . nonsensical. Varys says,

“And the second Aegon fed Grand Maester Gerardys to his dragon.”

Nobody living a century and a half later after this event is going to describe it in casual conversation by saying "And young Prince Aegon, the future King Aegon II, fed Grand Maester Gerardys to his dragon", because that's not how people speak, and because it's not relevant to Varys's context to specify whether or not Aegon was actually King at the time Gerardys became dragon food. The point there was to highlight that murder is a way to make a new Grand Maester, not to specify that Gerardys's death took place during a time when Aegon II was actually referred to as "the second Aegon" by those around him.

Varys isn't making a mistake, he's referencing Aegon II by the term most familiar to his audience. When he says "the second Aegon", Tyrion immediately knows who he's talking about, and that's what matters. (If he'd just said "Prince Aegon", Tyrion would have gone "Wait, who?") There is no reason to assume from any of that that Gerardys's death took place during Aegon's actual term of kingship.

Either Gerardys was supposed to be Orwyle in TRP, or the other way around.

This is, frankly, ridiculous. Gerardys and Orwyle are very clearly different people. You're jumping to some really bizarre conclusions here.

[Most of this theory is based on the fact that Ran has told me when TPatQ came out - as I've already posted elsewhere on the board - that Gerardys' story is 'secret history' not publicly discussed.

I think you're reading way too much into that. For Gerardys's story to be "secret history", all that would be required is for the episode of Aegon feeding Gerardys to Sunfyre be done in secret, or for Gerardys to have simply been doing things that "public" sources didn't record. At best, you might---might---be able to argue that the Greens faked Gerardys's death, allowing the Greens to maneuver their own candidate into the Grand Maester position, and then kept Gerardys imprisoned somewhere for some nefarious purpose, feeding him to Sunfyre once his usefulness as a hostage/giver of information on Rhaenyra/etc. was exhausted. And even that is stretching things a great deal. But the whole "Gerardys and Orwyle are the same person" argument definitely makes zero sense.

[The hairy bear]

I agree with Tze. The fact that Varys speaks of the second Aegon doesn't have to mean that he did executed Gerardys while he was king. Just as we would say that "William I was born in Normandy" or "Augustus won at Actium".

That said, I find it very difficult to believe that Aegon could have executed a Grand Maester before he became king, when he wasn't even the crown's heir. I can't see king Viserys or the Citadel allowing this. Rhaenyra herself would have opposed strongly, and the conflict would have started before.

There are still some scenarios that could work, without having to assume mistakes or a savage editing. For instance, knowing that Gerardys is a black supporter, Ser Otto could have convinced Viserys/the Citadel that he should be dismissed on the grounds of old age. Gerardys is offered a golden retirement at court, and Orwyle is sent as a replacement. When the war starts, though, Gerardys publicly opposes the greens (and perhaps starts suggesting the "poison" angle), so Aegon gives him to his dragon.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I don't think that Aegon said something like "he accidentally came close to Sunfyre and was thus eaten", since it was stated that Aegon had fed Gerardys to Sunfyre. That sounds completely intentional, not something that can be seen as an accident.

[The Wolves]

Ran

Does the world book have some more information on Robert's Rebellion? I know Martin said we should have the whole story by the last book but I was just wondering will there be some new info on the characters(Lyanna, Rhaegar, Robert, Rickard, Elia, Howland)and on the events that happened?

[Ran]

There's some new information about some of the people involved.

[The Wolves]

There's some new information about some of the people involved.

Thanks again for answering such repetitive questions.

[Maester Mando]

Ran, will there be some information the far eastern lands? I only saw asshai, yi ti, leng and the jogos nhai in the table of contents. And what is the chapter "east of ib" about? Im really looking forward to that asshai chapter since it seems to be most mentioned unvisited place outside westeros.

[Mrs.Grumpy]

And there is an Ib section and then there is the Shivering Sea and East of Ib section. My question is, why? The only thing that matters in the Shivering Sea is Thousand Isles (par Ib, which has its own section) but it can be mentioned in East of Ib section. Is that a mistake? Shouldn't be there a Jade Sea section instead of Shivering Sea? I mean Jade Sea is far more populated and settled than Shivering Sea.

Or is there something that makes Shivering Sea more important?