Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Lawsuit in Chicago seeks to overturn Chicago ordinance preventing women from being able to appear in public topless:http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/chicago-seeks-to-dismiss-lawsuit-over-topless-rights/ar-AA8seZ7From the article:CHICAGO Chicago on Wednesday filed a motion to dismiss a federal lawsuit over the right of women to go topless in Chicago, arguing that nudity is not protected expression under the Constitution and that "female breasts are considered erogenous in a way that male breasts are not.""The (Indecent Exposure or Dress) Ordinance is substantially related to the City's important objectives in ensuring public safety and protecting unwilling audiences from exposure to nudity, which, consistent with current community standards, includes the exposure of female breasts," city lawyers wrote in their response.The lawsuit was filed in U.S. District Court in November on behalf of Sonoko Tagami, then 41, who was described as an ardent supporter of GoTopless, a nonprofit that "advocates for the right of women to appear bare-chested in public."Chicago police ticketed Tagami for indecent exposure last August during an event at Chicago's lakefront to promote the right of women to bare their breasts in public. An administrative law judge found her liable and ordered her to pay a $100 fine plus additional costs.Come on. If men can go topless then women should have the same right. Its that simple. Equal protection of law. If men can do it legally, then so should women be able to. Its not a hard concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Come on. Where is this actually legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fallen Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Come on. Where is this actually legal? NYC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 FNR,Women being topless in public?NYC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kairparavel Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Ontario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily Valley Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 There are a lot of places where the law against it is not enforced. It is a ludicrous law. Anyone should be allowed to be tacky regardless of gender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeping Sore Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 There can't be too many women clamoring to go topless in Chicago in January, but I could be mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crom Dubh Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Come on. Where is this actually legal? Rochester, NY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercenaryChef Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 http://gotopless.org/topless-laws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 NYC. FNR,Women being topless in public?NYC. Ontario Rochester, NY. I guess I've just been dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 If men are allowed to then so should women if they choose to do so. Another instance of double standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJDonegal Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 DIdn't we just have a nipples thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB. Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 There are a lot of places where the law against it is not enforced. It is a ludicrous law. Anyone should be allowed to be tacky regardless of gender.Yeah, because we don't want to penalize tacky people, we just want to look down on them, don't we? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 DJD,DIdn't we just have a nipples thread?Yes, I looked for it. It was closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 One of these days someone will come up with a good argument for inequality and these threads will be fun. Until then I say...have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 One of these days someone will come up with a good argument for inequality and these threads will be fun. Until then I say...have fun. OK, how about: if you insist on burdening society with artificial obligations like having to create a safety net for everyone's basic needs,etc etc, why should the members of said society not also be bound by the established social norms of that society? I would say if you want total freedom to be an individual and not be subject to the norms of the rest of society, then you should divorce yourself from that society in all ways, including from the benefits you get from being part of that society. Either fit in or f*ck off, to put it very, very crudely. So if the established norms are based on a certain view of public decency, then either move somewhere where that is not the norm, or stay there and accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 OK, how about: if you insist on burdening society with artificial obligations like having to create a safety net for everyone's basic needs,etc etc, why should the members of said society not also be bound by the established social norms of that society? I would say if you want total freedom to be an individual and not be subject to the norms of the rest of society, then you should divorce yourself from that society in all ways, including from the benefits you get from being part of that society. Either fit in or f*ck off, to put it very, very crudely. So if the established norms are based on a certain view of public decency, then either move somewhere where that is not the norm, or stay there and accept it. I assume the argument here is that, if you wish to use teh statez or society to enforce certain rules then those rules would preferably be not-arbitrary. The idea that,if you don't buy into every single rule in the books you might as well divorce yourself from society seems a bit weak no? Have norms stayed the same throughout time? I would say that this argument could be taken to some tyrannical conclusion but it might just start a hop away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 FNR,"Equal protection of law". If men can roam topless and women cannot there is clearly an unequal application of existing law going on. Law cannot treat men and women differently because they are men and women without violating equal protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 you insist on burdening society with artificial obligations like having to create a safety net not going to work, as the distinction between natural/artificial is untenable when discussing something like law, which is wholly the product of human labor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 FNR,"Equal protection of law". If men can roam topless and women cannot there is clearly an unequal application of existing law going on. Law cannot treat men and women differently because they are men and women without violating equal protection. Look, I'm making a lazy argument here, as this is not an issue I lie awake at night thinking about. However, I would say that if I had a choice, I'd be against women walking around topless in the open, as it would be a bad influence on my two young daughters. An influence I cannot protect them from when going out shopping, or to the park, or anywhere in public where women are walking around in this fashion. There are certain values and norms instilled into society that are supported by both men and women. For example, the idea that female breasts should be covered up is a cultural value of Christian-based Western tradition. Even though many are not Christians anymore, they still believe in most of the values that historically originated from Christianity. And I would be almost certain that the majority of women support this view. In fact, it might well be a majority of men who are in favor of semi-naked women beign allowed in public, since ogling female breasts have a pleasing physical and emotional effect on men. So it is not males imposing this rule on women. Rather, it is the consensus of society - both males and females - that this crosses the line of public decency. So it is not an issue of equality, so much as one of challenging traditional norms and standards supported by both sexes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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