The United States is not "One Nation".

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Does everyone understand the difference between a "Nation" and of a "State"? That the United States is not and has never been "one Nation". The conflation between "Nation" and "State" happens all the time.

Part of the problems we, as the United States, have been facing is the fact that we have never been "one Nation". I'm attaching a link to a map illustrating the different "Nations" that make up North America. I'd love to see a discussion of the difference between Nations and States:

http://www.colinwoodard.com/files/ColinWoodard_AmericanNations_map.pdf

[sologdin]

as citoyen of the free nation d'orleans nouvelle, can't say that i disagree. 

that said, all of the cute little 'states' ceded their independent sovereignties, as proven conclusively by the vi et armis of the grand army of the republic.

[Magnar of Skagos]

Nobody refers to Ontario as 'the Midlands.'

[Marcus Agrippa]

I am not entirely convinced that the individual's on this site understand reality.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Marcus,

Howso?  Nations are not States and States are not Nations.  What is unreal about that fact?

[OnionAhaiReborn]

You might have had a somewhat valid semantic point before you introduced that silly map. Those "nations" appear based on nothing but reductive and fictitious traits- an attempt to assign characteristics to vast swaths of humanity based on simplistic assumptions and buzzwords.

In any case, the United States is most certainly a nation under a widely understood contemporary definition.

[Inigima]

Scot,

In technical political science circles, "country," "state," and "nation" have very specific meanings. In all other circles, like Internet Bullshitting (i.e., this one) they're pretty much synonymous, as they are in most people's minds, a fact helped along by the pledge of allegiance that we have pestered schoolchildren into mindlessly repeating for decades.

I don't know what sort of evidentiary point you think you are making, but I assure you you aren't making one, and this condescending tone isn't helping your case. The gist, I think, is that there are regional subcultures throughout the U.S., which is true and which I think most people understand intuitively.

[Corvinus85]

I have to agree with Onion and Inigima. I understand that there is a difference between "nation" and "state", but to say that the U.S. is not a nation is erroneous. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Inigima,
 

I apologize for coming across as condesending.  That wasn't what I was trying to do.

My point is that we do not have "subcultures" in the US.  We have various "Cultures".  The South is not the Mid-Atlantic.  The Mid-Atlantic is not the Upper-midwest or the Southwest.  The Southwest is not the Pacific Northwest.  The differences are organic and to claim the US is "One Nation" is a mistake in my opinion.

The US is a multi-national, multi-cultural Nation-State.  I believe it would be helpful for all of us to recognize this self-evident fact about the US.  I think it would be helpful in how we relate to those of us who are not from the same cultural regions particularly when we seek to craft policies that affect the US as a whole. 

The map I attached to the intial post is not definitive.  It is merely an example of how cultures in the US vary and could be drawn.  There are a number of different ways that map could be drawn but I do think it is important to realize that people from different parts of the US are going to have very different expectations about government and people's interaction with government based upon the culture they are coming from.

[Marcus Agrippa]

Marcus,

Howso?  Nations are not States and States are not Nations.  What is unreal about that fact?

1. I have been to 50 percent of the country, none of those make remote sense. Maryland has nothing in common with Texas. What so ever. Also new York and Detroit.... hahaha. 

2. I think you need to stop over analysis. It's just as bad as under analysis. Can you say the United States have vastly different cultures that work under a patch work system? Sure. You can also say that they respect each other (limited as it is). It's still one country, even if it hates itself

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Marcus,
 

Please see my post above.  I'm not talking about "State".  I'm talking about cultural differences not government control.  Colin Woodward's book American Nations is not talking about State boundaries.  He's talking about cultural boundaries which are much fuzzier than territorial boundaries.

[kairparavel]

This is incredibly lame. The United States is not a special snowflake in that it has regional interests and cultures that vary border to border. The fisheries of the Atlantic, to the (dying out) factories of Ontario, to the wheat fields or the Prairies etcetc: all part of Canada. Just as the Basque and the Catalan all live within the borders of Spain.

The united  states form a  nation. And as @sologdin said:

that said, all of the cute little 'states' ceded their independent sovereignties, as proven conclusively by the vi et armis of the grand army of the republic.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Kair,

Canada is a multi-cultural Nation-State too. 

[Marcus Agrippa]

Marcus,
 

Please see my post above.  I'm not talking about "State".  I'm talking about cultural differences not government control.  Colin Woodward's book American Nations is not talking about State boundaries.  He's talking about cultural boundaries which are much fuzzier than territorial boundaries.

those boundaries are wrong, by a lot. I agree that there is cultural boundaries, but with the internet they are starting to disappear

[Fez]

If we use the old definition where 'nation' meant 'ethnicity' then yeah, the US is many nations. But otherwise its one nation since it is a single organized political entity on the international stage. Its also one state, since our definition of 50 states isn't the normal one. Its not a nation-state though, because that term does include the old definition of nation. A country like Japan, which is something like 99% ethnic Japanese, is a nation-state.

I'm not sure what the value is in pointing out that the US is not a nation-state though, and merely a nation or a state.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Marcus,

There is some amalgamation but the cultural boundaries will not evaporate overnight.

[JonSnow4President]

Having lived and traveled over a lot of the country, I don't see a very substantial difference between Texans, Georgians, Minnesotans (don't know WTF they're called), Californians, or New Yorkers.  There's nuances everywhere, but they still hold to the same overarching principles and values.  City dwellers differ more vastly from suburbanites who differ more vastly from rural dwellers, but those same differences exist all over the country.  

There are regional differences.  Your southerners and midwesterners are more likely to drive truck-framed vehicles than your Californians or your New Yorkers. The south did hushpuppies right, and has cornbread dressing (proving every other region in the US is inferior).  Y'all vs yous guys vs you guys is a thing.  

But we have a lot more in common than we have different.

 

[ThePrunesThatWasPromised]

Minnesotans are Canadian. You're fooling nobody with those accents and slap shots, Minnesota.

[Marcus Agrippa]

Having lived and traveled over a lot of the country, I don't see a very substantial difference between Texans, Georgians, Minnesotans (don't know WTF they're called), Californians, or New Yorkers.  There's nuances everywhere, but they still hold to the same overarching principles and values.  City dwellers differ more vastly from suburbanites who differ more vastly from rural dwellers, but those same differences exist all over the country.  

There are regional differences.  Your southerners and midwesterners are more likely to drive truck-framed vehicles than your Californians or your New Yorkers. The south did hushpuppies right, and has cornbread dressing (proving every other region in the US is inferior).  Y'all vs yous guys vs you guys is a thing.  

But we have a lot more in common than we have different.

 

yeah you summed it up well, really economics is the biggest difference.

[Inigima]

Scot, what are you even trying to prove? Why are you trying to prove it? Why do you feel this distinction is worth bringing up to the board right now?