Feminism in 2012

[Lothar Imbel]

That isn't coming up for me, hang on:

"OXFORD — A flier posted in the men's restroom at a Miami University freshman co-ed dorm offered pointers on the “Top Ten Ways to Get Away with Rape,” from slipping roofies into a girl’s drink to drug her to slitting her throat so she can’t identify her attacker.

Tip 10 read: “RAPE RAPE RAPE, its (sic) college boys live it up!!”"

Can't link the actual list, nor make out what it actually says.

[sologdin]

you have to click through the website's bullshit to read the entire article, which is pedestrian. the image doesn't enlarge, but it looks to state non-specific items such as wear condoms, practice makes perfect, and don't give out your phone number, beyond the conduct quoted in the article. i couldn't make out the others.

[TerraPrime]

According to ABC, the campus police thinks it's the work of 1 person.

So there's that.

But still. Uggggh.

[Gillio]

According to ABC, the campus police thinks it's the work of 1 person.

So there's that.

But still. Uggggh.

and no-one took it down

[Fragile Bird]

Looked at articles, didn't look at the facebook box.

Other suggestions:

2. When you see a woman walking alone at night, take advantage of the fact that she is alone.

4. If a woman's window is unlocked sneak in and rape her to teach her not to do it again.

5. Sex with an unconscious body does count, so don't back down if she's sleeping.

Lovely.

[Elder Sister]

I don't understand human beings sometimes. :(

[Isalie]

Kids (people) with anonymity, great stuff...

[Lord of Rhinos]

Erm, that list is clearly satire. It's a critique of rape culture, not an endorsement of it.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

You are giving these people / this person a much greater benefit of the doubt than I think is warranted.

[Lyanna Stark]

Erm, that list is clearly satire. It's a critique of rape culture, not an endorsement of it.

In which way? Personally I really can't see the fun, being old and boring as I am and knowing several rape survivors.

[Shryke]

It's clearly a "joke". Doesn't mean it's not stupid and in terribly bad taste.

[Guest Raidne]

I'm curious: what is the biggest problem when it comes to sexual assault for you guys (more specifically Raidne and Lyanna) or it's prosecution? Is it the lack of follow-up or prosecution?

I honestly don't really think the largest problems are primarily legal. It's a cultural thing. I've posted about this before, so apologies for those reading me repeating myself, but here goes. Think back to when you were, say, 14. You like some girl or another, you guys are making out, etc. What happens? Maybe she was all over you; good for you. Maybe you both went slowly as a mutual preference. Or maybe it was a game where you tried to see "how far you could get" and she tried to decide whether to "let you" get to certain "bases." This is not unusual. And it's not illegal.

But it is the essential cornerstone of a culture of sexual assault.

The major reason for this is that, IMO, it makes sex and other parts of a physical relationship unsexy for women, like a barter instead of something you're doing for fun. It honestly makes it all less sexy for men too - I mean, is this eventually what you want? A marriage where your wife "lets you" have sex with her sometimes? So why set up this paradigm, which only leads to women who are raised thinking that if sex is something bartered, they should be getting something for it? Like dinner, a diamond ring, your testicles, etc.?

That is my problem.

To answer the specific question you asked, the largest problem, IMO, with the legal system is that when a sexual assault is reported, the police either (1) do nothing, (2) screw up evidence collection, (3) treat the victim like a perp, or some combination thereof. Proper handling of the victim and evidence collection ensures less false convictions not more. Look back at the Duke case - if the police hadn't been such douchebags, it's unlikely a charge ever would have been filed. Upon a report of a sexual assault, things should move quickly and properly. And the victim should not be given any choice as to whether or not they want to "press charges." That decision should be made by the prosecutor.

[Shryke]

I don't think it's like a barter really. It's more like ... the women as "Guardian of the Pussy". She is letting you get around the bases. The woman is an obstacle, not a participant.

And you get all sorts of flavours and degrees of this, but the essentially idea underpins large parts of male-female gender relations.

I think it can produce a culture of bargaining though. The woman trades access to the pussy for something else. But the essentially idea that creates this idea of bargaining is that sex is something done to a woman's body, not with a woman. The woman is just the gate-keeper.

[Castel]

And the victim should not be given any choice as to whether or not they want to "press charges." That decision should be made by the prosecutor.

Really? I've noticed that that is a bit of a controversial view. What if the victim is required to give testimony and refuses? Didn't a woman get jailed for that recently and it drove everyone insane? I can get where they're coming from: leaving dangerous criminals on the street is not good for anyone, but it seems to me that you'll need the cooperation of the person in question and if they say no?

[Guest Raidne]

Really? I've noticed that that is a bit of a controversial view. What if the victim is required to give testimony and refuses? Didn't a woman get jailed for that recently and it drove everyone insane? I can get where they're coming from: leaving dangerous criminals on the street is not good for anyone, but it seems to me that you'll need the cooperation of the person in question and if they say no?

Availability of witness testimony is always an issue and always a problematic area. Let's say there is a drive by shooting. You know, from the other evidence, that one of the residents witnessed the event and can identify the shooters. But, they won't come forward and testify because of fear of reprisal. Do you make them testify anyway then? Or no? The concequences are of no less import than they are with a rape victim. Prosecutors should make good decisions, balancing the interests of the witness, particularly where the witness is the victim, against the state's interest in the testimony, taking into to consideration the worth of testimony that is not freely given at trial and the reliability of the witness on the stand.

There will be many cases where the witness won't cooperate and the case will be dropped, but a victim of something that many of us don't believe is a "crime" should not have to choose of facing the social stigma of wanting to punish someone for it. That's a different kind of responsibility than deciding whether or not to report it, which people generally understand you have to do to preserve evidence. After that, the common understanding that it's in the prosecutor's hands would take some pressure off the victim and onto the legal system, where it should be.

And, while I'm not generally in favor of jailing rape victims, I can imagine situations - very, very few - where it might be justified. A serial rapist is one the loose. There are a dozen victims. During the last attack, the victim pulled the perp's mask off and can conclusively identify him. But she recanted her testimony and said she lied after facing pressure at school, work, or wherever else, or for whatever other reason. Again, where there is potential social reprobation for cooperating voluntarily, make it involuntary. In the vast majority of cases, this would be better for the victim.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

Availability of witness testimony is always an issue and always a problematic area. Let's say there is a drive by shooting. You know, from the other evidence, that one of the residents witnessed the event and can identify the shooters. But, they won't come forward and testify because of fear of reprisal. Do you make them testify anyway then? Or no? The concequences are of no less import than they are with a rape victim. Prosecutors should make good decisions, balancing the interests of the witness, particularly where the witness is the victim, against the state's interest in the testimony, taking into to consideration the worth of testimony that is not freely given at trial and the reliability of the witness on the stand.

I don't trust prosecutors to make good decisions, properly balancing the interests of the victims and the state, I mean, I've seen the Wire, but I do otherwise agree in principle. Rape, like murder, is a crime against society as a whole and not just the victim.

[Monday]

Rape victims, at least female ones, are routinely humiliated on the stand. I was there in court as moral support for my friend after she was raped at 14 year old. They brought out the clothes she was wearing that day (it was a hot summer day). They slut shamed her on her past sexual history in front of everyone in court, including her parents and grandparents. It was brutal. Nobody should be forced to go through that sort of systematic revictimization. Until they set higher standards for how rape victims are treated on the stand (maybe they have? It was over a decade ago), I wouldn't blame victims for not testifying no matter how dire the circumstances. Rape victims don't owe society anything.

[Tempra]

Rape victims, at least female ones, are routinely humiliated on the stand. I was there in court as moral support for my friend after she was raped at 14 year old. They brought out the clothes she was wearing that day (it was a hot summer day). They slut shamed her on her past sexual history in front of everyone in court, including her parents and grandparents. It was brutal. Nobody should be forced to go through that sort of systematic revictimization. Until they set higher standards for how rape victims are treated on the stand (maybe they have? It was over a decade ago), I wouldn't blame victims for not testifying no matter how dire the circumstances. Rape victims don't owe society anything.

What country was this case in? Rape Shield laws in the United States generally prohibit questioning an alleged victim on her sexual history.

[Monday]

What country was this case in? Rape Shield laws in the United States generally prohibit questioning an alleged victim on her sexual history.

Canada. That sheild law sounds like a great thing. I don't know if we have it here. We should. He was a juvenile offender so maybe things were a little less formal? I have no idea. They absolutely brought out her clothes, slut shamed her and brought up her sexual history, though I don't recall if they got into specifics. I remember being completely appalled with the whole thing and at the time thinking that there was no way I'd ever go to court if I was raped.