Dating 4.0 Everyone is crazy. I am Spock.

[Lily Valley]

The last thread got locked in June. I can't believe I'm the only single on this board so here we go. This story is long. I apologize in advance.

I put my dating life on hold for work during the spring term and for family stuff this summer. I found it inadvertently brought back to life by a set of small world circumstances.

I met someone through my OkCupid account. He was funny, handsome, warm and intelligent. We had a date in April. No second date until July. We are both teachers, got busy, have different schedules, couldn't get together again and finally too much time passed.

I ran into him just before I left town early July. We had a great evening together, I promised to call when I got back. We live in adjoining neighborhoods and have several friends in common. He got a green light.

Had another date last Friday. It went great. Then things got really crappy at home. I responded to all texts from everyone (including this fellow), "Bad week at home, sincerest apologies, polite refusal, back to you later."

Sunday and Monday I got a couple more texts from him expressing concern. I followed up that it was kid stuff. He has kids too. I thought that was nice. Then Wednesday I got a phone blow up after 8pm including a text from my neighborhood bar.

I don't mind a booty call after 3 dates. That's fine. My response is always graceful. It's a compliment. I am put off by how rapidly the phone blew up after such a short time. Five messages in one evening is too much. I am also a little alarmed by getting a text that he was at my pub. I'll admit, I'm defensive of the place and I resent being looked for when I am there. The place is my Cheer's. I feel like people would be less presumptuous showing up at my house uninvited.

I talked to my brother about this. He's a romantic and he says I have too much testosterone and I'm a bitch. I pointed out that oxymoron. He threw his hands up in the air and called me Spock.

He has a point. Fire an emotional conversation at me and I am never going to be in that room.

My questions with modern dating are:

1. How long can you wait to respond to text messages? If they are sent in the middle of the workweek, does this give you more time?

2. Being pursued is flattering. Where is the creepy line with modern technology?

3. How much time should you actually have to spend with someone you are dating? What are the responsibilities here (aside from full disclosure obviously). If full disclosure is given and your goals are not matching up, how do you bow out gracefully? In other words, are other people's feelings your problem? If so, when. How do you respond?

4. If you have a verbal dating contract with someone, if they break the emotional clauses, does it have the same weight as breaking the safety clauses? Why shouldn't it?

Edit: This one confused everyone. Apologies. I mean up front confessions (verbal contract) along the lines of:

Emotional clause = "I don't want anything emotionally serious right now. I don't have a lot of free time. Any involvement with me comes after the other things I have going on in my life. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?" Answer=yes or no second date.

Safety clause: "Please don't give me a sexually transmitted disease." or, "Don't rob a bank while I am standing next to you." or, "Please don't introduce me to really annoying people I will have to have conversations with for the rest of my life."

That last one is real, but kinda sarcastic. I would never break these agreements without talking to someone about the specific limits of the agreement first, but I feel like many people feel like it's "normal" to breach the first, but horrible to breach the second. Sucks.

5. Is the fact that I'm looking for advice and perhaps confirmation from strangers a hint as to why I'm single? :lol:

Edited for less rambling (fail)

Edited again. Alas.

[WillWork4NinjaPowers]

Uh, I find a booty call by anyone I have not known for a really long time, creepy. Especially if you have kids at home and you have no idea whether or not the dude is some weird ass pedo trying to find a single mom with her guard down. Sorry, I watch a lot of tv, but my mom is also a deputy, so I hear stories. I've never had a booty call though, so what do I know. I think the creep factor is upped by the fact he was at your bar.

I have a friend who is very pretty and many guys in her...scene...want to date her. Totally not romantic, but she won't move past 1st base without an std test dated within that week. Then she considers boning down. Weeds out the guys who don't find her worth their time or effort to get an std test. To her, it tells her she was only worth their time and effort if they were having sex.

Men in their 30's who are single, never married, are typically single, (my view), because they are getting their ducks in row. Once they are at a place for marriage, they want to spread their genetic material, and they go for women younger, seen as more fertile. It's a primal thing...I think. As far as the women go, single never married, I gotta go with the career aspect as well. Now single and divorced is different. (This is in general, not about you in particular). It's too late for me to think about tat one.

[fuseprime]

Not that I'm an expert on dating or anything, but I can give you my opinion on certain points.

I don't mind a booty call after 3 dates. That's fine. My response is always graceful. It's a compliment. I am a little put off by how rapidly the phone blew up after such a short time. I also feel like one message is fine, five is too much. I am also a little alarmed by getting a text that he was at my pub. I'll admit, I'm a little defensive of the place and deeply resent being looked for there by ANYONE. The place is so much a Cheer's to me that I feel like the person has shown up at my house uninvited.

Has this person ever gone to "your" bar before meeting you? If not, then yeah I think it's sort of weird. Then again, I'm not really a person that "plays the game". If you don't want to go out or hang out then that's cool. If it happens again, then that's still fine. If after the third time that happens, then I let the woman make the plans. Maybe he thinks you're playing a game. But, I still think it's kind of creepy he's trolling your bar and/or sending a lot of texts this early in your relationship.

I had dated a girl a couple of years ago, and I had brought her to "my" bar during football season since we're both Jets fans (I know, I know). After we had stopped dating, she would pop in to see if I was there, and if I was she would stay there with her friends and she would literally gaze at me in a way that gave me shivers. She would talk to the bartenders (Good friends of mine) about me and try to "have fun" around me. Looking back at it now, it's comical, but while that was going on it was CREEPY! Point being, the bar I go to is like a "Cheers" bar that is filled with regulars and the only "new" people who go are "guests". I go there if I just want to be left alone, watch a game, or bullshit with the bartenders. So I know exactly what you're talking about in that aspect. Also, I learned my lesson to never bring dates to my favorite bar.

[WillWork4NinjaPowers]

Having a "date bar" is a good idea.

[Lily Valley]

Uh, I find a booty call by anyone I have not known for a really long time, creepy. Especially if you have kids at home and you have no idea whether or not the dude is some weird ass pedo trying to find a single mom with her guard down. Sorry, I watch a lot of tv, but my mom is also a deputy, so I hear stories. I've never had a booty call though, so what do I know. I think the creep factor is upped by the fact he was at your bar.

Men in their 30's who are single, never married, are typically single, (my view), because they are getting their ducks in row. Once they are at a place for marriage, they want to spread their genetic material, and they go for women younger, seen as more fertile. It's a primal thing...I think. As far as the women go, single never married, I gotta go with the career aspect as well. Now single and divorced is different. (This is in general, not about you in particular). It's too late for me to think about tat one.

Thanks Ninja,

To clarify, my neighborhood is small and friendly. This man is divorced with a gold star on reasons (career differences, life) and no acrimony on circumstances. He's a good father by all reports as well. I don't EVER bring men to my house. Period. If I did, they'd all be smaller than my 6'1" teenager anyway. I do this mostly for the men's protection. My son is smart and has a mouthful of razors for my suitors. I have custody arrangements that give me freetime, but I still don't bring people home.

Things are very flexible about sex arrangements for people around here. Especially for busy and independent people. Condoms are everywhere. They are free and they are pretty effective. That said, I don't mind the booty call, they are flattering and not meant or taken creepily most of the time. Having a really nice friend can also be a single mother's (and child's) lifesaver. I thought it was a little soon considering we met through a dating site. The fact that we have enough people in common for me to vet him makes it more acceptable. The fact that I said I was unavailable that week makes it much less so.

I'm more concerned about the rapidity of the advancement here. It seems like there are less annoying ways to get someone's attention. I also think that someone who needs attention 3 or 4 days a week is probably not for me. On this piece, is that normal? Seems way too fast to me. I worry that I'm dating people who SAY they want to date, but they actually want to get married.

I get yelled at all the time for being so cold. If I'm busy, I won't respond to texts for 3 or 4 days from people I'm dating. This time, I really felt like he was too hot.

Not that I'm an expert on dating or anything, but I can give you my opinion on certain points.

Has this person ever gone to "your" bar before meeting you? If not, then yeah I think it's sort of weird.

I had dated a girl a couple of years ago, and I had brought her to "my" bar during football season since we're both Jets fans (I know, I know). <snip: this is my football bar man. WHODAT!>.

Also, I learned my lesson to never bring dates to my favorite bar.

I have never brought him there. Thanks, I think I needed a fella's perspective as well.

Edit: The plural of man is men, mens' is not a word.

Double Edit: I do have a date bar. I use it often. Far away enough from home with backup from staff. A must-have for all dating singles. I have a date coffee shop too.

[Every]

See, I'd think 3-4 days a week spending time together is pretty optimal for a relationship which isn't too serious, although I agree it's a bit much after only two dates. Three or four days to respond to a text from someone you're dating isn't going to make a lot of people happy either. Maybe you need to talk to him and find out if you two have gotten your wires crossed about what you're expecting from each other.

[Lily Valley]

See, I'd think 3-4 days a week spending time together is pretty optimal for a relationship which isn't too serious, although I agree it's a bit much after only two dates. Three or four days to respond to a text from someone you're dating isn't going to make a lot of people happy either. Maybe you need to talk to him and find out if you two have gotten your wires crossed about what you're expecting from each other.

3-4 days a WEEK?? Sheep. I am not dating!

I am editing my OP to generalize my questions. I really appreciate your input. Job-n-family make this a total impossibility. The only time that type of time commitment has been bearable I was dating a friend. In other words, we spent a lot of time together doing "communal stuff". Watching a movie, playing games, socializing, watching kids, having fun. They were already part of my life.

Otherwise 3-4 "special days" out of 7 is math I cannot do. The very idea makes me crawl into a hole. I pull my skin behind me.

[Every]

Oh, I don't mean doing fancy 'special' things or going on actual dates four times a week, that would get exhausting! Not to mention expensive. I mean the kind of normal relationship type stuff you're talking about - watching movies and sitting on the couch talking, just generally going about your lives but doing it together :)

[MisterOJ]

I met someone through my OkCupid account. He was funny, handsome, warm and intelligent.

So, not a zombie.

That's a win.

[Greywolf2375]

My questions with modern dating are:

1. How long can you wait to respond to text messages? If they are sent in the middle of the workweek, does this give you more time?

Depends - if you text me during the day, you might get an answer back during the day, but work, workout, young son, etc - give me a bit of time. I do generally try to return them same day, though sometimes things fall through the cracks and it takes longer. If you are saying "I'll get back to the texts sometime this week" - yeah, that's a little too long.

2. Being pursued is flattering. Where is the creepy line with modern technology?

depends entirely on you. the fact that you can find someones name and then do a full life search on the person on line is a little creepy to begin with. if things had gone well through the dates then consistent contact via text, facebook, etc might not be too much. I don't think anyone has come up with the calculus to say XX times is too much for you in that situation, other than you (generic "you")

3. How much time should you actually have to spend with someone you are dating? What are the responsibilities here (aside from full disclosure obviously). If full disclosure is given and your goals are not matching up, how do you bow out gracefully? In other words, are other people's feelings your problem? If so, when. How do you respond?

"have" to spend? none. "Want" to spend? again, depends on you. in my prior dating life in the beginning it might be once a week, maybe twice...then as things get better, more often. though "date" at that point might just be spending time together, not an event. How do you bow out gracefully? Well, from experience - don't break up with someone on Valentines day. or their birthday (DJ Schmoov right here folks) But as soon as you know that this relationship isn't going in the long term direction you are looking for, tell them. Are their emotions your problem? to some extent, yes. No one likes being broken up with, but there are obviously ways to do it that are better than others. leaving a voicemail to do it? not a good choice.

4. If you have a verbal dating contract with someone, if they break the emotional clauses, does it have the same weight as breaking the safety clauses? Why shouldn't it?

My guess would be yes, but again - depends on the relationship you have built with the person.

[Isis]

Short answer:

It depends (people have different expectations). Communicate better (be explicit about what you do/don't want)

Long answer:

1. How long can you wait to respond to text messages? If they are sent in the middle of the workweek, does this give you more time?

There is no right or wrong answer. This is a bit like asking 'how soon is 'too early' to propose?' when the answer will be different for everyone.

I don't think people should expect immediate responses to texts etc. If you routinely take days to respond to me and I'm not aware of a reason why you would be unable to reply for days (e.g. shift work/carer responsibility etc) then I'll assume you're not that interested in me.

2. Being pursued is flattering. Where is the creepy line with modern technology?

I learned something interesting during my brief dating spell. If I really like someone they can text me 50 times a day and it's cool. If I'm not that into someone they can text me once a day and it's too much. :laugh: As with so many things in life you need to read the social cues. If someone takes ages to respond them don't keep pestering them repeatedly. You have to allow people some space else they're liable to push you away for good.

If I got the impression someone was using technology to 'spy' on me somehow and to obtain information I was prepared to give them I'd be offended. Very offended.

3. How much time should you actually have to spend with someone you are dating? What are the responsibilities here (aside from full disclosure obviously). If full disclosure is given and your goals are not matching up, how do you bow out gracefully? In other words, are other people's feelings your problem? If so, when. How do you respond?

This should all be solved be honest upfront communication. You only spend the time YOU want to spend with the other person. That needs to be mutually agreed else it's not a partnership, is it? When your needs are not in agreement you sit down and discuss it and try to work it out to please both people.

Really, I think all of these questions are covered by my short answer. :)

[Elder Sister]

The whole "respond to my text instantly" bugs the crap out of me. I sometimes wait a couple of hours or a day to return calls, or answer texts. It doesn't mean anything is wrong, it just means I'm busy. And if someone blows up my phone because I haven't responded quickly enough for them, they are about a step away from getting deleted. I hate that. Unless you're my kid, spouse, or parent, don't do that. Ugh.

This man may be perfectly nice, but there's a fine line between showing interest and becoming a stalker. The whole pub thing would bother me.

[Nichole]

For the question about when being pursued goes from nice to creepy: it depends. I think you need to go with your gut on this, if his texting you 5 times in a row rubs you the wrong way, then it does. He might not have meant to bother you, and it sounds to me like he was drunk and not thinking straight. He could also be socially awkward and not understand that it was inappropriate, but that is not your problem. You could give him another chance, or not. You don't owe him anything and if you don't want to see him again that is your choice.

[Guy Kilmore]

I know that I typically try to respond to texts/messages or whatever within 24 to 48 hours. I tend towards introversion and if I don't do that, I can let things go for awhile. I also know that leaving someone in limbo can be slightly rude and usually I have a free minute sometime in that period to wing off at least, "Hey, pretty busy, can't talk much now" or some such. [it's odd how I can make paragraphs on some posts and the board then revokes that right for me in other posts. Ahhh well.] I know when I was dating my wife we spent about an evening or two together, it wasn't until things got really serious that it was more time than that...again though we are both introverts. [Nope, still no paragraphs for me.] From single parents I know, it is sometimes hard to click with someone and people can get desperate or needy. They don't mean to, it is just the excitement of having that intimate attention that we can get from the people we are attracted too. If you still find something you like about him and have interest, I would be upfront and restate your boundaries, needs, and expectations; if he can't live with that then I would let him know that this is an issue and move on. Of course, if you are totally turned off by him now; I would just let him down now and move on. [The Universe continues to be broken] I hope this helps!

[Elder Sister]

I suppose I'm rude, then. I don't always respond even the same day. A lot of the time, I don't have my phone on me, (especially on the weekends - I'm outside doing stuff) don't check it, or just want to left alone for awhile.

[Yagathai]

I'm less a Spock and more a lizard. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock-paper-scissors-lizard-Spock

[Greywolf2375]

4. If you have a verbal dating contract with someone, if they break the emotional clauses, does it have the same weight as breaking the safety clauses? Why shouldn't it?

What the hell are you talking about?

Glad you asked that...I tried to answer it, but that was my first question. Followed by "there are clauses in dating? Did everyone have to take up Sheldon's girlfriend agreement document since I've been married?"

I was married for 10 years. I'm single because I want MORE.

Polygamy is a separate thread Dear. :)

[MinDonner]

Yeah, I don't think it's safe to assume that everyone has their phone on or with them at all times, even if they're au fait with other forms of technology. I mean I'm online most of the time, but my phone is rarely even in the same room as me at home, and the battery tends to randomly crap out all the time which I sometimes don't even notice for a day or two.

As for five (unanswered)* messages in one day... that would kind of depend on the content. In some ways I think that would be acceptable if it were, say, five short anecdotes about amusing shit that was going on with his evening, which he wanted to share with you even if you couldn't hang out in person. Five texts demanding responses? Not so much.

*if it's an actual conversation via text, same limits don't necessarily apply

[Rubies & Jade]

I haven't been in the dating scene in a long time, so I may know squat about this... but showing up at "your" bar if you hadn't taken him there previously and he had never been there before would weird me out.

as for text messages... well. it is definitely a new world order out there. I don't have a smart phone (so no access to twitter/facebook/email unless I'm in front of a computer) and the phone I do have isn't glued to me. so people know that I may take a while to respond to text message in evenings and on weekends. I have a number of friends that are in the same boat and it doesn't bother me if they take a couple of days to respond to my text message. But. Anyone who has a smart phone who has it glued to them at all times and is constantly on twitter/facebook/instagram/whatever every day, all day but won't respond to me wiithin the same day? I assume those people aren't interested in talking to me and/or I think they're kinda rude--if someone makes 30 to 40 tweets on a daily basis but can't send me a 3 word text message response in a week, then I think its clear what is going on (I had that happen recently!). so, I let those relationships go. Surely I am not the only one that makes that distinction? So, it kinda depends on the text response issue.

[DreamSongs]

Not everyone is attached to their phones. I only check my phone once a day when I work and maybe every 2 days when I'm off.