Women and Minority in Geek Culture - Part the 4

[Galactus]

Article about possible problems with war-games,

*gnashes teeth*

Call of Duty isn't a war-game. It's a game set in a war. Hearts of Iron is a wargame. Even the Total War series are wargames. Monstrous things like Gary Grigsby's World at War or the AGEOD games are wargames.

It's one of those annoying things, but the terminology is already in existence.

EDIT: Note that the article itself uses "war-themed" or "military-themed" games :p

[Shryke]

Military shooters really do expose a frighteningly jingoistic and violent philosophy and push it on huge amounts of people in a way most of them probably don't notice. It's really fucking disturbing.

[karaddin]

Since this link is primarily about Zoe Quinn I'm going to keep the discussion of that in here rather than throwing it over in the Video Game culture thread.

So after Zoe tweeted some select pieces from the IRC log, the 4chan guys dumped the entire log to "prove" that Zoe was taking shit out of context or editing things and apparently hoped no one would have the stomach to wade through that incredible amount of filth. Well someone from We Hunted The Mammoth (yes it's an admittedly anti-MRA blog, deal - it's reading their own IRC logs) has gone through it and pulled out more that is said in it. It's only a start and thus far only looking at how it's talking about Zoe herself.

Someone try and fucking defend this. Try and explain that it's about fucking integrity in gaming journalism, that it's about corruption. Try and fucking tell me it's not about a bottomless pit of hatred for women, when you can have sick fucks fantasising about some of the shit pulled out in that and a room full of people either nodding along, or saying "well it's bad PR so we shouldn't do that". Even if there was a fucking reason to specifically hate this woman, and there really fucking isn't. I'm not saying you have to like her, but it takes a lot to personally hate someone, it would be disgusting. Without that reason? This is scary as fuck. These people are scary as fuck.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Karaddin,

There is now way to justify the IRC chat log. It is a mass of kids delighting in the suffering of another. It reminds me of this:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/online_gaming

[Xray the Enforcer]

Scot -- not all of those IRC chatters are kids. They're adults who know better, but choose to be vile assholes anyway.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Xray,

Indeed and perfectly unjustifiable in their asshattery.

[Lightysnake88]

Did we expect much of anything else? Who the heck chooses to make videogame reviews their hallowed cause?

[Guy Kilmore]

Did we expect much of anything else? Who the heck chooses to make videogame reviews their hallowed cause?

Not to come off being Devil's Advocate and what is going on with the Zoe Quin situation is deplorable, but someone who is passionate about the art form and expression of video games would want a legitimate critiquing community.

[Jon AS]

Not to come off being Devil's Advocate and what is going on with the Zoe Quin situation is deplorable, but someone who is passionate about the art form and expression of video games would want a legitimate critiquing community.

You'd think that, wouldn't you? And yet these guys who claim to be passionate about games don't seem to care much for critique.

[Shryke]

Yeah, the state of video games journalism is deplorable and a cause worth being upset about. There's plenty of people who care about that without being sexist.

But, as we all know, that's not what this is about. It's about a women calling out sexism and people attacking her for it. Cause the gamer culture can't abide criticism of it's culture or it's games from any sort of bigotry-related perspective.

[armidil0]

There needs to be more Jewish protagonists in games. Can't I get a Hebrew hammer game? I want to save Christmas in the most badass way possible!

Gaming culture is pretty terrible atm, but I do think it's getting better over the years. Especially since 'gaming' is moving from a small group of people t a much larger demographic. But the core is still rotten and not keeping up with the times. There are many types and shapes/sizes to gamers now. One reason why I like indie games. They are catering to more specific groups and making gaming more accessible to everyone.

Yeah, the state of video games journalism is deplorable and a cause worth being upset about. There's plenty of people who care about that without being sexist.

But, as we all know, that's not what this is about. It's about a women calling out sexism and people attacking her for it. Cause the gamer culture can't abide criticism of it's culture or it's games from any sort of bigotry-related perspective.

:agree: If the culture can't handle actual criticism then it needs a major overhaul, and soon.

[MerenthaClone]

Is anyone else getting slightly disturbed at these "But Zoe Quinn might be a bad person" insinuations as if this justifies desth threats or as if they're just amusing little side bars to this?

Zoe Quinn cheating on her boyfriend is the business of her, her boyfriend and the other people involved. It is not our business, and I don't really consider her ex boyfriend a wonderful source of info on this to begin with. If there was unethical behavior committed by journalists, that's the fault of the journalists. But here's the kicker and listen close:

None of this remotely begins to justify rape or death threats. That I even have to say that represents how fucked this whole thing is.

Word.

[Stannisaurus2]

The majority of the critiques on video games have the backing of specific ideologies they want to enforce in gaming and everywhere. There are plenty of examples of complaints who at best are closer to jokes (especially about sexism) not only in games but in other similar areas as well (comics, movies etc) and at worst are right down anti-male BS and double standard propaganda for anyone who hasn't "embraced" feminism (i.e. the vast, vast majority of gamers).

Unfortunately, the above is used as a means to both deflect valid criticism ("don't be an asshole in online gaming" is a valid thing to say) by people who would otherwise be more receptive and ofcourse it gives a perfect shield to @ssholes who like to keep doing what they are doing.

[emberling]

I'm still confused by this. You look smart, maybe you can educate me.

Sarkeesian's critique of games is "enforcement" and has the backing of an ideology?

Your critique of Sarkeesian's critique...is not "enforcement" and does not have the backing of ideology? Is that how it works?

I am but a young girl and know little of the ways of double standard propaganda...

[denstorebog]

The majority of the critiques on video games have the backing of specific ideologies they want to enforce in gaming and everywhere. There are plenty of examples of complaints who at best are closer to jokes (especially about sexism) not only in games but in other similar areas as well (comics, movies etc) and at worst are right down anti-male BS and double standard propaganda for anyone who hasn't "embraced" feminism (i.e. the vast, vast majority of gamers).

That's right. "They" want to enforce anti-male ideologies on you. And they're coming for your games, and movies, and comic books.

Let me guess. 23-24 years old? Tea Party supporter? Don't believe in the moon landing?

[Guy Kilmore]

The majority of the critiques on video games have the backing of specific ideologies they want to enforce in gaming and everywhere. There are plenty of examples of complaints who at best are closer to jokes (especially about sexism) not only in games but in other similar areas as well (comics, movies etc) and at worst are right down anti-male BS and double standard propaganda for anyone who hasn't "embraced" feminism (i.e. the vast, vast majority of gamers).

Unfortunately, the above is used as a means to both deflect valid criticism ("don't be an asshole in online gaming" is a valid thing to say) by people who would otherwise be more receptive and ofcourse it gives a perfect shield to @ssholes who like to keep doing what they are doing.

I find your statements confusing. What is anti-male BS? What has that to do with video game critiques? Do you have statistics regarding the vast, vast majority of gamers aren't interested in feminism. I find this....odd....being that 48% of gamers are women. Also, there are more Women over the age of 18 playing video games than teenage boys.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/24/female-gamers_n_5207137.html

[denstorebog]

I find your statements confusing. What is anti-male BS? What has that to do with video game critiques? Do you have statistics regarding the vast, vast majority of gamers aren't interested in feminism. I find this....odd....being that 48% of gamers are women. Also, there are more Women over the age of 18 playing video games than teenage boys.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/24/female-gamers_n_5207137.html

In fairness, way too few women are interested in feminism.

[Stannisaurus2]

maybe you can educate me.

Doubt it but I ll give it a shot if you insist

No non-asshole gamer is going to go against having, for example, dynamic women as protagonists or women at positions of power in games. They don't want it to be enforced to the point that even a bit of unbalance on that respect would be considered a reason for complaints but they would not protest any of it when it happens. Long story short they don't seek to prohibit things from going into the game.

On the other hand, feminists are actively whining about each and any single thing they feel it shouldn't be in the game. For example, Sarkesian's (since you mentioned her) epic argument about why you can't have NPC strippers or them going amok everyone time there's a sideboob. Not to mention the most ridiculous of all, when some actually complain about violence on women in games (because blasting men is okay apparently). And ofcourse all the above are based on ridiculous assumptions and beliefs that no one outside feminists would share.

I've seen occasions where feminists actually feel entitled to complain not about a pattern of X happening (like games having predominantly male characters as protagonists) which would at least be somewhat justified depending on how the complaint itself was made, but about instances of a game having a male protagonist. Its the same kind of morons you see complaining every time that a role that could have gone to a black guy in GoT goes to a white guy.

A great example from the area of comics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB6TiRJNI-Q

[Stannisaurus2]

Do you have statistics regarding the vast, vast majority of gamers aren't interested in feminism. I find this....odd....being that 48% of gamers are women. A

Since when are all women feminists?

[Guy Kilmore]

Since when are all women feminists?

Where did I say that?

(I asked you other stuff, why just jump on this topic?)