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[Book Spoilers] EP409 Discussion

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they killed off Grenn and Pyp? Nooooo I cannot believe it, this really hurts, my faith in humanity has hit a new low, who will be Jon Snow's BFFs now? (apart from Sam) They were the in-betweeners of Westeros


Edited by 1000AcresAndAHoldfast

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Speak for everyone why don't you?Glad you were all trolled coz the level of Stanfan shite had become nauseating.Stop watching the show and throw all your toys out of the pram.

Oh,and ignore the possibility that that Stan's arrival may be even more effective in the final episode.

Ahaha. There comes the D&D cult members shite train.

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I feel bad for some people on here. Just watch the show and enjoy it for what it is. I have read the books several times. I enjoy every single episode. I dont sit there watching episodes with my books on hand as if I have a checklist going over each scene and line to make sure it matches or is included. You should let yourself just watch it as a separate entity. It is an adaptation. We already know there will be changes. To say this isnt one of the better shows or even in the top 5 is scary. So many of my friends never read the books and whenever we discuss the show their eyes light up and say how amazing it was. Thats because theyre not watching saying wait hey hey that guy was supposed to be standing to Jon's left not the right!! Why is his hair so nicely done that doesnt make sense for a battle!! God I hate this theyre ruining it! Anybody not enjoying this show I wish could forget they ever read the books and just watch it unsullied. Maybe you guys wouldnt be so stuck up about it and could just be entertained. This has been the highest rated HBO show of all time. The only real show ahead of it including network shows would be The Walking Dead and some others. Averaged 18+ million/episode, sounds like its a pretty good show to me. Rotten Tomatoes has like a minimum 95 percent approval rating every time. Relax and enjoy the ride despite the changes and differences please. Sorry for no punctuation/grammatical errors this is on my phone.

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

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Who gives a fuck about Jon Snow we all watched this episode for Stannis.

Ha ha ha, you're funny :p

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Oh,and ignore the possibility that that Stan's arrival may be even more effective in the final episode.

explain why and how please

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Speak for everyone why don't you?Glad you were all trolled coz the level of Stanfan shite had become nauseating.Stop watching the show and throw all your toys out of the pram.

Oh,and ignore the possibility that that Stan's arrival may be even more effective in the final episode.

Well its not as if its not a major plot point in the entire series which also sets-up most of the key interactions from AFFC, if they have truly thrown that out of the window it is worrying frankly

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Ahaha. There comes the D&D cult members shite train.

No it doesn't.I like Stannis,especially from ADWD on.Stan will have his time.I just think it's important that Jon and Mance have their dialogue first.

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Really, though... How touching was it when Gregor showed up on the scene in the tunnel, in an uncharacteristic blink of tardiness, just to realize that the Giant had killed Grenn and his nameless fodder brothers. Realizing he had only been a ginger-minge's hair late, you could see the blood red tears of a warrior welling in his hazel eyes. That moment was so silent it was deafening. The existential anguish captured in Gregor's eyes as he realized, "Fuck, I want a Taco", was captivating. Seeing the seething rage manifest within, as he focused back on Grenn's twisted, de-animated corpse! We all knew what to expect. When Gregor assumed that battojutsu stance, I could hardly stay in my seat. FWOOMP! Down goes the giant, before he even has the opportunity to feel the fear. Gotta love it, how Gregor staged the scene post-kill, and methodically retraced his steps to make it appear as though Grenn & Friends did an admirable job. Gregor, the unsung hero of compassion and comradery.



Next, on Gregor of Thrones: Gregor fixes Pia's teeth.


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Stannis' arrival in the next episode will be as effective as having Mountain vs Viper in the same episode as LS Reveal or having Jaime's Bath scene in the same episode as Red wedding. Stannis' arrival will totally lose importance. No one can beat LS reveal not even Tyrion's crossbow massacre.

Next episode will also have more memorable moments. (In terms of importance rating)

1) LS Reveal.

2) Tyrion's crossbow massacre.

3) Dany's chaining.

4) Stannis' arrival.

In this episode it would have been far more effective.

No it doesn't.I like Stannis,especially from ADWD on.Stan will have his time.I just think it's important that Jon and Mance have their dialogue first.

Look above for why i think this was stupid and a shite move from D&D. It completely removes the effect of his most glorious moment upto date.

Edited by Stan the Man Baratheon

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The CGI was impressive, but if you are not emotionally invested in the characters it felt flat and wooden. Was more upset over Pyp & Grenn then Ygritte. Jon, eh. Felt no jeopardy for Gilli, Babe & Sam. So it was visually interesting, sometimes, but emotionally flat.

Master Aemon seemed wasted and not really pertinent but could have given more info.

Liked Alister or Alliser's speech & Ed.

The dialogue between Pyp & Sam insipid filler The pacing was strange. Also no climax.

The book wins on emotional involvement, the Show on visuals.

7

Edited by TheReal_Rebel

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Damm it D&D I trusted you not to turn this show into aDwD. (By which I mean, a lot of great moments huge buildup and the climaxgets delayed until next book/episode) sigh. If it was not possible to have everything this episode I would have at least liked to have the battle at Cb before (maybe instead of the Yara scene?)




As sad as I am for losing Pyp, at least that means he will not replace Marsh. (That had been a theory) How dare those filthy men onf the NW slay a giant as brave and heroic as Mag? (excep fo Grenn, I wish he hadn't been a dead man from the moment the trailers aired) I must also say I Owen Teale was an awesome Thorne and I will regret it when/if he dies. It is still one of the best episodes of the season (after 2 and 8, that is)


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Well, at least Jon got his head smashed into an anvil :).



So this episode... talk about a Sam-overdose. Replacing Stannis scenes with Sam&Gilly scenes, ugh. I hate Sam and I want him to die.



I did like Allister, Ygritte and Tormund. The mammoths and giants were awesome, the actions scenes were great, the conversations were crap. I was not as invested in it as I thought I would be. Allong the way II thought the ending would make up for it and it didn't, it was disappointed. It's great when people argue it's just delay for the big Stannis moment, but do you actually believe that? Crammed between a Dany and Tyrion scene, it will not be Stannis's big moment. Don't kid yourself.




EDIT: emotionally flat, yes that's how I would describe the episode. I just didn't care about the characters.


Edited by SkaggCannibal

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But it leaves viewers on a cliffhanger after a bittersweet ending and legit left wondering what Jon's fate will be. Everyone's focus will be on the epicness of the battle, on Sam, and Ygritte's death, and on what will happen to Jon next week.

Maybe that upsets Stannis fans with the fact his hero moment will be in a packed episode, and maybe they have a right to be. That still doesn't mean this was bad TV. This was very good TV.

I think some people are to hung up with their "sullied" expectations and forget that the show is paced and written for the "unsullied".

I agree that it was very good TV. I don't think the episode was completely ruined because Stannis didn't appear -- in fact, I loved the episode as a whole. But I completely understand people's frustrations in having Stannis's big arrival not being allowed to stand alone as an epic episode closer and instead will likely be just one cool scene amongst many next week.

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explain why and how please

Like in the books Stannis didn't arrive until several days into the "assault" on the Wall.After the "cannibal savages" Wildling portrayal of this season,we need time to see that this is not by any means entirely the case.I hope to see Mance saying "my people have bled enough" before Stannis attacks.This would add nuance more in keeping with the books whilst giving Stanfans their cheer moment.

And in case anyone thinks I favour Mance over Stannis,I think they are actually working in concert in the latter half of ADWD whether knowingly or not.But the show needs to start redacting this all Wildlings are evil stuff otherwise Jon's ongoing role will be impossible.

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Ive just watched the episode and slightly underwhelmed, it looks like they are going to sandwich in Stannis's moment of glory in with Tyrion's escape etc next episode, they could easily have done it all in this episode though I think, Blackwater was a lot better imo. I personally think they have botched the entire story-line at castle black this season, Craster's keep diversion which took up a few episodes looks more and more pointless, its saving grace was Burn Gorman


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It's great when people argue it's just delay for the big Stannis moment, but do you actually believe that? Crammed between a Dany and Tyrion scene, it will not be Stannis's big moment. Don't kid yourself.

There are fair few amount of people who believe that. Read: Anti-Stannis people.

The whining from apologists will continue.

You forget that this episode will feature LS reveal. I am sorry but nothing beat LS reveal. It is also the reason why GRRM kept it in the epilogue.

Edited by Stan the Man Baratheon

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So I was definitely confused and a bit disappointed at first over Stannis not arriving, but... the more I think on it, the less I'm bothered. There wasn't any chance of Jon meeting up with Mance happening this episode unless they cut the battle disappointingly short, and with it happening in the next episode, that just means more time for it (both the Mance scene and Stannis's arrival). Everyone saying how it's ruined and how they don't even care anymore are still going to watch the finale and they're still going to be excited and glad when Stannis gets his moment in the sun.


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So the main complaint is that StanFans don't think their favorite character can keep up?



I wanted him too, but putting him in the next episode doesn't hurt it to me. Stannis is cool and will get the respect he deserves.


Edited by robbyhouston

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The book wins on emotional involvement, the Show on visuals.

That is like saying you have won a 100m dash against a quadruplegic without a wheelchair, considering the books don't even have any visuals. They are, you know, books.

So disappointed with this episode.

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