[Book Spoilers] On Three Eyed Ravens and Crows, or "Seriously? That's what we get?""

[Turinsbane]

I apologize if my thoughts below wound up rather lengthy.

Short version: the reveal of the Three-Eyed Raven was awful. Why? Has a lot to do with the Three-Eyed Crow, and the treatment of Bran’s story on the show in general.

Longer version within:

I’m not the biggest fan of ADWD. I know I’ve yet to see a season finale that I haven’t found underwhelming. However, for some naïve reason, I was looking forward to seeing one my favorite moments in A Song of Ice and Fire, in which Bran Stark finally encounters the three-eyed crow. I don’t blame the show for my complete and utter disappointment. No, I blame myself.

I could accept that this should have been expected, considering one can pretty much hear the writers sigh every time Bran just has to show up and be a burden on everybody. I could be confused as to why instead of wrights we got extras from the nearby set of Jason and the Argonauts. I could be outraged at what happened to Jojen, not because it’s yet another arbitrary deviation from the book chronology, but because it was a combination of contrivance and lethargy that borders on insulting. I could talk about Coldhands, but I’m not touching that with a ten-foot pole. I’m not even going to talk about the Children- excuse me CHILD of the Forrest- shooting fireballs??? What?

No, I feel in the end such things are not the real problem here. For these things I did not expect. The real problem is what I was expecting.

In my opinion, the strength of Bran’s chapters were not in its characters, not even Bran, but rather the world Bran lived in. The stories, the atmosphere, and the lore. Through Bran, we saw visions of the three-eyed crow. We learned the history that lay hidden in the walls of Winterfell. Master Aemon taught us about the legendary Children of the Forrest, and how he earned his Valyrian steel chainlink. The Reeds told us the story of the Knight of the Laughing Tree, and through Bran’s eyes we saw the North and Beyond the Wall, not so much a setting but a character itself. How a writer decides to toss that out the window for “cat fight about how to skin rabbits” is beyond me.

There merits of the decision to not really attempt to bring any of that to the show can certainly be debated. Perhaps they feared it wouldn’t translate well to television. However, you miss 100 percent of the shots you don’t take, and should a fear of making Bran’s scenes boring indeed be the rationale behind the materials absence, I would dare say it was all for not, as for me anyways the scenes ended being boring anyway. It would be ironic, if it hadn’t been so frustrating.

Yet for some reason, for some ridiculous, unsubstantiated, illogical reasoning, I eagerly awaited Bran’s meeting of the three-eyed-crow on the show. “That’ll show nonreaders how fascinating his story is!” I thought confidently, not giving heed to the fact that Isaac Hemptsetad-Wright was instead going to meet a three-eyed raven. Should this have been the first sign?

The main point:

The lack of Coldhands, the weird fan-fiction at Craster’s Keep, none of it deterred me from my dreams. I knew that all the challenges I faced would make the treasure all the more glorious to behold. For in my mind I could see the end of the road as clearly as Bran or Jojen, I could see that haunting figure withering away into a living wierwood throne. I could see eyes of the Children dotting the darkness. I could hear their haunting songs echo through the caverns below. Oh yes, I was eagerly expecting the Three-Eyed-Crow. I was expecting Bloodraven.

Instead, we must have met his cousin Vinny.

“So,” you say, “Ye of long-winded rants, what exactly were you expecting?” Well, gentle reader, I didn’t think it was too much to ask, because I was expecting something that looked even remotely similar to his description.

According to (the Production Designer?), The Three-Eyed-Crow’s description begins and ends with:

“Before them a pale lord in ebon finery sat dreaming in a tangled nest of roots, a woven weirwood throne that embraced his withered limbs...” -

A Dance With Dragons page 177

Perhaps that’s all they could fit into the Cliffnotes version, but unfortunately it leaves out a few minor details. And by that I mean ALL THE DETAILS:

“His body was so skeletal bad his clothes so rotted that first Bran took him for another corpse, a dead man propped up so long that the roots had grown over him, under him, and through him. What sking the corpse showed was white, save for a bloody blotch that crept up his neck onto his cheek. His white hair was fine and thin as root hair and long enough to brush against the earthen floor. Roots coiled around his legs, like wooden serpents. One burrowed though his breeches into the desiccated flesh of his thigh, to emerge again from his shoulder. A spray of dark red leaves sprouted from his skull, and grey mushrooms spotted on his brow. A little skin remained, stretchered across his face, tight and hard as white leather, but even that was fraying, and there the brown and yellow bone beneath was poking though.” –

A Dance With Dragons page 178

It just boggles the mind. There’s even more details than that in the chapter. Yet NONE of them seemed to have been used. This a show that gets lauded for its use of makeup and prosthetics (see Shireen, Walkers, the freaking Night-King.). The go the extra-mile on those occasions, yet when it comes to the freaking Three-Eyed-Crow, where imagination horror and creativity can run wild, they just throw an old guy into a tree and call it a day? That’s your Three-Eyed Crow?

“No! That’s our Three-Eyed Raven!”

Oh. So it’s as much the Three-Eyed Crow as Roland’s Emmerich’s monster is Godzilla?

Perhaps I wouldn’t have been so shocked if they had at least even attempted to establish some mod lighting. It’s cave. It’s dark, the light’s harsh, the shadows are hard. Maybe then Ravey the Raven could looked more mysterious, menacing even. If anything, it just makes the whole them seem even MORE half-assed.

But again, I have to question whether I’m outraged for the right reasons. Was I wrong to expect what we got? Is it the worst thing the show as ever done? Perhaps not. I will say, however, that it was defiantly the most disappointment moment for me, not just in the episode, but in the series so far. Is my view justified? Are there worse affronts? Was this treatment for the best? Is it a sign of future things to come?

[King Behind The Wall]

Another problem with Bran's arc this season is the copious amounts of contrivances they had to show just to avoid Coldhands. Jon had to go to Craster's keep to kill the mutineers because Coldhands doesn't exist. Now The Children have grenade technology because there is no one else to kill the wights at the entrance of the cave.

Furthermore, the wights at the end of season 2 were far closer to the description in the books. Here they look like they walked out a horror b-movie set.

[Damon_Tor]

I'm hoping the Bloodraven's Lair set was a placeholder. Since they have no problem replacing an actor with a guy who looks nothing like the other guy, they shouldn't have an issue with replacing a crummy set/makeup job with something better. Alot of us are complaining about this, I'm sure they know they fucked it up.

[acacia]

I was expecting him to look similar to this but with a wooden theme rather than the sea life http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080308012516/pirates/images/4/49/Wyvern_DMC.jpg

Something where he's sunk in the root of the tree so he's part of it, instead he reminded me of people in films who parachute out of a plane and then get trapped in some tree branches on their way down. This scene had so much potential yet they completely ruined it.

[Mark Antony]

I was happy with the dialogue but yeah definitely underwelmed by the appearance

[lacuna]

3EC was the most underwhelming thing in this episode, perhaps the season. I was expecting a skeletal form in rags, with wheezy speech and roots growing into the hanging folds of his parchment skin. What we got was a low-budget Saruman.

Pathetic.

[The Red Melli]

Not happy with the dialogue at all.

*Jojen just exploded in front of you*

*Meera cries*

Bran: "So .... will I walk?"

[jbob]

I agree, I didn't like the way he looked. Seemed like they cheapened out. Might as well just do it like the old knight in Last Crusade. I Del Toro could have done something good. Like this:

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120426193416/princenuadapetition/images/thumb/0/0e/King_balor.png/300px-King_balor.png

[Banner Without Brothers]

Very underwhelming. I didn't actually think they would go full skeletal but yeah i thought they would at least make him look his age. Dude is like 120 or something but could have been younger than Aemon.

[Bastard of the Dreadfort]

The Three Eyed Raven looked like a very comfortable elderly man... Sitting on a root throne for over a hundred years.

[Tyrus Martell]

Jojen dying and then Leaf throwing a grenade at his body for that explosion was the worst moment of the entire series, hands-down. So fucking cringe-worthy, and pretty much representative of how much they've fucked up the story by killing off minor characters, scenes or important secondary characters (in this case, Coldhands) and making up stupid situations to compensate - but end up worse than if they just put the effort in adapting the books in the first place.

As for the appearance of Bloodraven... nailed it.

/SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[Chebyshov]

I was just reminded of this guy, but chilling behind some vines.

I'm not sure I can talk about the wight attack and Jojen's exploding corpse just yet...

[libertine]

Furthermore, the wights at the end of season 2 were far closer to the description in the books. Here they look like they walked out a horror b-movie set.

Exactly! I had to think about 'The Mummy' when I saw them.

I can see why there have to be changes. They are making a TV Series after all ... and 95% of the audience hasn't read the books, so I guess you need to cut out characters and adapt some story lines. Leaving out Coldhands was a big mistake though and I totally agree that the Bran Storyline isn't half as interesting as in the books.

[Chebyshov]

I think their thought was that Wights stuck under the snow would have had their skin decay, but oy vey. Just terrible. It was this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF_Fi7x93PY

[johndance]

Was I watching something different? I saw a lot of attention to detail with the whole thing. There were roots/tree limbs/ everywhere. Very extensive looking 'throne' for BR to be sitting on. Creepy atmosphere, CotF look/talk just like I thought. We even got a great nod to Blood raven with the line

"I've been watching you with a thousand eyes and one..."

Fantastic!!!

And then I notice.......

does he have 2 eyes? I didn't get a chance to re watch yet to confirm or deny. Maybe someone can do that. It was PERFECT until I saw this, dialogue and everything complemented each other so well. If he has 2 eyes though, then that is probably the biggest hiccup of the entire episode. How can you include 'a thousand eyes and ONE' but make him have 2 eyes?

The way I see it, I bet they re work him a bit for next season and change this.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

It looked like Meera and Hodor where fighting the Skeletons from Skyrim.

[The Red Pypar of Thorne]

It was very disappointing to get that fireballs throwing and Carcossa place after how great The Lands of Always Winter looked.

[Rhaquentis]

It looked like Meera and Hodor where fighting the Skeletons from Skyrim.

Exactly my thoughts :lmao: Or the Draugr.

[Girlicious]

I agree with what you all said.

I was even more disappointed by the appearance of the CotF than Bloodraven. First of all, I really wanted non-human creatures, if possible no CGI. But now I wish they would have done CGI instead of these kids. On top of that, they are going to grow up, aren't they?
And we are talking about almost mythical creatures, supposedly dead for thousand of years... Bran is very intrigued by them at the beginning of the series (and in the books) and when they meet them in the cave, they are all like "Oh yeah hi, how you doing? You the three eyed raven? Hi!"

I love my little Bran/Isaac so much, he deserved way better than this. The Children are ALIVE, Bran is going to FLY, it's supposed to be an epic scene!

Bloodraven. I think he looked fine from far away... and then they closed up on his face and I was like "what?". I don't like this "magician" look he has with the long beard and hair. A more "unnatural" being would have been nice. And the whole cave isn't dark enough indeed... but I could say the same about the Godswood in Winterhell.

It looked like Meera and Hodor where fighting the Skeletons from Skyrim.

Absolutly!
The ones that were all over Hodor were fine. The hands shoting up from the ground were fine too. But when running and fighting, they looked like a video game.

[GHOSTSTARK]

I was happy with the dialogue but yeah definitely underwelmed by the appearance

:agree: