Rant & Rave without repercussion S 5/S 6 speculation continued [book and show spoilers]

[A Ghost of Someone]

Everytime I hear someone talk about Carol, a joke pops up in my mind that I feel is hilarious and need to share. So please indulge me for a moment, to make a theatre joke. Those who know the musical Pippin, might be able to grasp what I'm getting at, but for those who aren't, that's what the links are for. Do enjoy.
They want her to be:

"just your average, ordinary kind of woman. Practical as salt, modest to a fault. Conservative with a budget, liberal with a meal. Just your average ideal."

When really she's just wants to:

"spread a little sunshine." because after all she's "just an ordinary housewife and mother... just like all you housewives and mothers out there."

lol. that is good.

[Le Cygne]

Audiences are seeing rape and sexual assault depicted on screen more frequently, leading to discussions about its use as a plot device. Earlier this year Game of Thrones came under fire when Sansa Stark was attacked by her new husband on her wedding night, not long before Outlander's grim and gruesome scenes aired.

So why was it then, that Outlander's approach to Jamie's rape is often praised and – in certain think pieces at least – held up as an example of how shows like Game of Thrones could handle the issue with more care? 

"Well, for one thing it is in no way gratuitous," Gabaldon says. "It occurs as a very integral part of the plot. They filmed those scenes pretty much straight out of the book – the scenes in the prison and so forth – and in the book it builds, this conflict which is actually a triangle you might say amongst Claire, Jamie and Black Jack Randlall and you see it developing, the dimensions and aspects, through the entire story."

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-10-28/diana-gabaldon-on-outlanders-rape-scene-20-years-ago-nobody-could-have-done-something-like-that-on-the-screen 

[Le Cygne]

Because there isn't any. What actions was she supposed to take to seize control of the situation? How could she take any power at all with no men of her own? More importantly, even if Ramsay was a pussycat, LF and Sansa and everybody else knows that Roose Bolton at the very least is ruthless, cold blooded and murderous; he was hardly likely to take kindly to Sansa trying to become a viper at his breast.

The "unpleasant but probably necessary step" is total bullshit and you won't even find the die hard fans defending it on the grounds of the internal plot. Whenever criticism rears its head, the go to response is to claim that it was necessary for the adaption, which is a separate issue, never that this was a sensible storyline in of itself.

They are talking about sexual manipulation in the quotes I put above. The virgin teenager thought she could control the situation with her vagina, but she was wrong (note, in every quote, they put it all on her, she made a choice, she was wrong, she paid the price). I guess she figured the fug dress would dazzle the flaying family killers, because she didn't do anything but smirk, but that's all she did with LF, too.

Here they spell it out, they are specifically reducing her to a vagina for heir making, because that's all they wanted, just like the Lannisters and Tyrells, Fansa didn't learn anything, LF led her like a sheep to slaughter:

Littlefinger: I assure you she's still a virgin. Tyrion never consumated the marriage. By the law of the land, she's no man's wife. Inspect her, if you must.

Roose Bolton: I leave that to the brothel keeper.

And Myranda, who knows that's what it was all about, they made her smarter than Fansa:

Myranda: You can't die. Your father was Warden of the North. Ramsay needs you. Though I suppose he doesn't need all of you. Just the parts he'll use to make his heir, until you've given him a boy or two and he's finished using them. Then he's got incredible plans for those parts.

 

[TepidHands]

Merry Christmas, Ranters! 

Show!Myranda makes me miss Ros. Remember when she was the only made-up annoyance? 

[Le Cygne]

Merry Christmas, Ranters! 

Show!Myranda makes me miss Ros. Remember when she was the only made-up annoyance? 

Nostalgic for Ros!

Happy Holidays!

Feliz Navidad, wenches!

Joyeux Noel, too!

(More French...)

(Where did Dany's red door go?)

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Dany's red door will return... eventually

(ot, last night some tv network was airing A Princess for Christmas and I was like "stop touching me, I wanna watch this!!! It's Sam Heughan being a Prince... for Christmas!!!!")

[Tijgy]

Nostalgic for Ros!

Happy Holidays!

Joyeux Noel, too!

(More French...)

(Where did Dany's red door go?)

I miss Ross too. I did not mind the scenes where she was not used as a sex tool. 

If we are going on a language tour: Prettig Kerstfeest allemaal.

 

[Toth]

I miss Ross too. I did not mind the scenes where she was not used as a sex tool. 

If we are going on a language tour: Prettig Kerstfeest allemaal.

Frohe Weihnachten euch allen!

And yes, we have come a long way from season 1 complaints. I guess that is the only good point the show has at this point: It makes us appreciate the books more... and the times when they bothered to actually adapt storylines. And apperently even the times when we were still able to come up with some explanation for why thy added nonsense of their own which didn't boil down to fart-smelling.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Just stopping by to say HI and Happiness in all the Holidays for everyone, and soon a Happy New Year as well.  That means, we are getting closer to the time of:  New Ranting!!   I should be able to add to new rants, if the show can manage to keep me awake this year, LOLOL  

 

Have A Happy, Everyone!! 

[TepidHands]

Hope everyone got a full stocking and belly this holiday! I had only one instance of YourSister in the tree.

Rant topic: On Christmas, the fanboy site WIC had a "small council" of board folk and poll about the show "changing things" because of the outrage over the Sansa storyline. I don't know why I read these things; some of the commenters were absolutely gallilng. At least the "rah rah yay show!" poll results aren't a majority, though close. 

No. They should stick to their vision.  46.33% 
  
Maybe. It depends on what the fans are reacting to and how they're reacting to it.  33.02% 
 
Pah. If they'd stuck to the books they wouldn't run into problems like this to begin with.  15.63% 
  
Yes. Listening to fans can help them craft a better show.  5.02% 

ETA: off topic, happy to see "Suits" returns Jan. 27 and "Vikings" Feb. 18. It will give me something to do!

[Tijgy]

I was actually reminded of how much I hated the idea of Tyrion = The Gift. That scene was so annoying.

[A Ghost of Someone]

I was actually reminded of how much I hated the idea of Tyrion = The Gift. That scene was so annoying.

when his little arms outstretched and he spoke "I am the Gift", that is when I knew I hated St Tyrion.

[The Fattest Leech]

I was actually reminded of how much I hated the idea of Tyrion = The Gift. That scene was so annoying.

This is yet another example of 1000 that shows (with pesky Martin now out of the way) how D&D are always playing the game of Plotzee!

When they have to come up with a new storyline, or find something to do with a made-up character, they take 3 die- one for plot, one for character, and one for location- and roll them out onto the map of Westeros in the shape of a Tardis. Whatever lands face up is what they are going to write. It's so frickin' genius an intern could do it.

In this case it was rising sun Quentyn being played by Tyrion in the presence of Danerys and this is where they got the "gift" idea from, Dany VII:

"I feared as much." Neither enchanted nor enchanting, alas. A pity he's the prince, and not the one with the wide shoulders and the sandy hair. "You have come for a kiss, however. You mean to marry me. Is that the way of it? The gift you bring me is your own sweet self. Instead of Viserys and your sister, you and I must seal this pact if I want Dorne." [Danerys]

 

"My father hoped that you might find me acceptable." [Quentyn]

[Tijgy]

Does this mean they actually replaced Quent by St. Tyrion? 

I am in shock. 

[Le Cygne]

That's why you can't say they did this on the show, therefore that will happen in the books. See, it's a line from the books! Never mind that by the time they've twisted the story beyond recognition, then if they really want to do a number on it, have Batfinger say the line instead, it may still be a line written in English, but that's the only resemblance.

(YourSister up the tree! )

[The Fattest Leech]

That's why you can't say they did this on the show, therefore that will happen in the books. See, it's a line from the books! Never mind that by the time they've twisted the story beyond recognition, then if they really want to do a number on it, have Batfinger say the line instead, it may still be a line written in English, but that's the only resemblance.

I could go on and on about Plotzee!

It became very clear to me when I finally got the books on Audible and listened to them out loud while I toiled away working at my desk. Some things are fairly big changes and some are smaller... like that stupid box Cersei opens and has the necklace in it... that was the re-purposed box meant to hold Gregor C's head in it when it arrived in Dorne. Easy enough mistake, I find those boxes in thrift stores all the time. Interns HAD to come up with something creative.

[Le Cygne]

I could go on and on about Plotzee!

It became very clear to me when I finally got the books on Audible and listened to them out loud while I toiled away working at my desk. Some things are fairly big changes and some are smaller... like that stupid box Cersei opens and has the necklace in it... that was the re-purposed box meant to hold Gregor C's head in it when it arrived in Dorne. Easy enough mistake, I find those boxes in thrift stores all the time. Interns HAD to come up with something creative.

Very true, and great name! Plotzee!

Like Brienne biting off Sandor's ear. Well, she bites off an ear. And he has an ear. Therefore...

“Creatively it made sense to us, because we wanted it to happen."

[The Fattest Leech]

Very true, and great name! Plotzee!

Like Brienne biting off Sandor's ear. Well, she bites off an ear. And he has an ear. Therefore...

“Creatively it made sense to us, because we wanted it to happen."

That's it. And thank you for playing Plotzee today

[TheCasualObserver]

 

They are talking about sexual manipulation in the quotes I put above. The virgin teenager thought she could control the situation with her vagina, but she was wrong (note, in every quote, they put it all on her, she made a choice, she was wrong, she paid the price). I guess she figured the fug dress would dazzle the flaying family killers, because she didn't do anything but smirk, but that's all she did with LF, too.

Here they spell it out, they are specifically reducing her to a vagina for heir making, because that's all they wanted, just like the Lannisters and Tyrells, Fansa didn't learn anything, LF led her like a sheep to slaughter:

And Myranda, who knows that's what it was all about, they made her smarter than Fansa:

 

I understand that sexual manipulation was always going to take a part in the plan, but why was that a slam dunk? Sansa was a virgin - how did SHE intend to win Ramsay over? But more importantly, there are three gaping holes in the plan.

1.Why assume that Ramsay will be a pushover when it seems more likely that he will have inherited his father's cold blooded traits? Even if Sansa and LF didn't know he was a psychopath (which seems improbable considering what we have been shown) simply assuming he'd be a dumb teenager is ridiculous.

2.Even if Ramsay were a dumb teenager, Roose is still the real power in Winterfell. Was sansa planning to wait for Roose to die before taking over the North? Was she planning to sleep with Ramsay so much she manages to persuade him to kill his own father? Was she planning to seduce Roose as well?

3. Even if all these things are true, sexual manipulation does not equate to true political power. Cersei slept with Robert for 15 years, but it was only after she murdered him that she finally gained power. These are the same limitations which affect Sansa.

 

It's total idiocy, disguised as a "necessary step" in order to propagate this bizarre plot.

[A Ghost of Someone]

I understand that sexual manipulation was always going to take a part in the plan, but why was that a slam dunk? Sansa was a virgin - how did SHE intend to win Ramsay over? But more importantly, there are three gaping holes in the plan.

1.Why assume that Ramsay will be a pushover when it seems more likely that he will have inherited his father's cold blooded traits? Even if Sansa and LF didn't know he was a psychopath (which seems improbable considering what we have been shown) simply assuming he'd be a dumb teenager is ridiculous.

2.Even if Ramsay were a dumb teenager, Roose is still the real power in Winterfell. Was sansa planning to wait for Roose to die before taking over the North? Was she planning to sleep with Ramsay so much she manages to persuade him to kill his own father? Was she planning to seduce Roose as well?

3. Even if all these things are true, sexual manipulation does not equate to true political power. Cersei slept with Robert for 15 years, but it was only after she murdered him that she finally gained power. These are the same limitations which affect Sansa.

 

It's total idiocy, disguised as a "necessary step" in order to propagate this bizarre plot.

You are correct on all of these but alas, it was not really intended to be an "iron clad" plan, because there was no way they could make it out to be. It was lazy, lame ass writing because it really did not matter to them. It was all about getting virgin Sansa "broken in" by the biggest monster in the show, in the most horribly cruel manner they could potentially get away with regarding the actors and actress involved. Sick, nauseating, disgusting, cruel etc... The Scene was their benchmark and they got it, plot be damned.