Star Wars Episode VII RETURN OF THE SPOILERS

[Corvinus85]

The previous spoiler thread is COMPLETE.

Now you will experience the full power of the new, fully operational SPOILER THREAD.

Last discussions involved the quality of Kylo Ren as a villain, and how much background info TFA did provide. Carry on.

[Magnar of Skagos]

I really loved the way that we actually got the picture that Ren was an insecure, emotional villain, without having to sit through all of that cringe-worthy material that we had to for Anakin. The fact that Ren is also just batshit insane is interesting as well.

[Corvinus85]

I don't know if anyone else mentioned this in the previous threads, but, imo the most unnecessary thing in the movie was giving C-3PO a red arm. Because this bit also lacks the background info required. All we get is a short line from 3PO lamenting to BB-8 about missing the golden arm, and how he can't wait to get it back.

But C-3PO's appearance on screen did provide one of the bigger laughter moments.

[ab aeterno]

I don't know if anyone else mentioned this in the previous threads, but, imo the most unnecessary thing in the movie was giving C-3PO a red arm. Because this bit also lacks the background info required. All we get is a short line from 3PO lamenting to BB-8 about missing the golden arm, and how he can't wait to get it back.

But C-3PO's appearance on screen did provide one of the bigger laughter moments.

One of the sites even pointed out that he has a gold one again by the end of the movie, when he bids farewell to Rey. So I guess it's just there as a shoutout to the tie-in novels.

[Ser Creighton]

I think he Ren reminded me a little to much of Adam on Girls temper tantrums and all, but I am giving him a shot we see the imagery of his light side dying in the scene were he kills Han so I expect less conflict within him in the next movie.

I get it he is suppose to be conflicted in this one, but he still reminds me of Adam from Girls, Adam was funny as hell and was suppose to be this sort of idiot Emo D-Bag.

So far from what I can tell and what JJ has said is directing style sort of consists of moments and then he tries to build a movie around certain moments. Like really the entire reason for the Starkiller base is basically he needed imagery of the sun going out so it had to eat suns and of course he calls it Starkiller because that is the original Skywalker name. He wanted a fight in a snowy forest so Starkiller base is on a cold planet. He didn't want Luke involved till the very end because then Han never dies and Ren never fights Rey. R2 could not wake up till the end because he didn't want him scene stealing. He also wanted to keep the droids separate C3PO that is, except they are not separate they are together in the same place the whole time they just aren't used. He needed a plot device so R2 suddenly downloaded the imperial data base back in ANH but R2 forgot to mention it. R2 wakes up because he thought after Han died people would need some hope, no real logic the scene is based off emotion. What is the New Hope, well it's actually the Old hope Luke who made a McGuffin because Luke would solve most of the problems.  

[Calibandar]

The thing that has me more upbeat about the prospect of Kylo Ren as the villain for the next films, is things like this quote from the interview with Kathleen Kennedy last week:

 

Peter: Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker’s father, so there is this personal connection between the hero and the villain, how do you top that with Kylo Ren?

Kathleen Kennedy: We can’t look at it as trying to top Darth Vader because Darth Vader is extraordinarily iconic now. All we can do, and all we’ve done, is try to create a three-dimensional, really compelling interesting villain, and that I think we’ve succeeded in doing. And whether or not he goes on to reach that iconic status along the lines of Darth Vader, who knows. It’d be great if that happened, and certainly we’re trying to create a character that reaches that high bar.

 

And then there was Abrams this weekend saying they did not want to start with a completed villain, but someone who is still in the process of becoming that, and that killing Han does put him on that path. And we know Snoke says in the film his training needs to be completed.

So clearly this is a character that will change for the worse in terms of character, and certainly grow in power. He'd need to for him to have any sort of credibility as a major antagonist in the next few films ( and clearly he is not being replaced by a new antagonist like Darth Maul was, this is the guy who has to do it in this trilogy).

I'm hoping his wound to the face means the mask goes back on, because that works much better for this character. It probably will. I also expect that we will actually see his Knights of Ren in the next film. 

It was interesting to read elsewhere that the quest for the Jedi Temple(s)might be a crucial plot point in the two remaining films.

[Corvinus85]

Kylo Ren may get a new mask on account of most likely leaving that one behind. Also, did Rey slice his light saber? She didn't slice off his hand, but something gave in that scene when they sort of wrestled, and Rey brought down her lightsaber.

If Ren left both his mask and saber behind, we might see a new Kylo Ren altogether.

[Jace, Extat]

Kylo Ren may get a new mask on account of most likely leaving that one behind. Also, did Rey slice his light saber? She didn't slice off his hand, but something gave in that scene when they sort of wrestled, and Rey brought down her lightsaber.

If Ren left both his mask and saber behind, we might see a new Kylo Ren altogether.

I hope not. I thought the lightsaber and mask made him cool. Without it... eh.

[Calibandar]

Another thing from the Q& A this weekend was this comment from Michael Arndt on why there is hardly any Luke skywalker in this film, and why their solution was to hardly have him in this one:

Michael Arndt (Toy Story 3) was working on its script as soon as Disney acquired Lucasfilm and its intellectual properties with the plan of bringing back the film franchise. And as Arndt tells EW, it was a challenge to fit Luke in any other way:

“Early on I tried to write versions of the story where [Rey] is at home, her home is destroyed, and then she goes on the road and meets Luke. And then she goes and kicks the bad guy’s ass. It just never worked and I struggled with this. This was back in 2012.”

“It just felt like every time Luke came in and entered the movie, he just took it over. Suddenly you didn’t care about your main character anymore because, ‘Oh f–k, Luke Skywalker’s here. I want to see what he’s going to do.’”

[Corvinus85]

I hope not. I thought the lightsaber and mask made him cool. Without it... eh.

Maybe he will be even cooler. Don't lose hope.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

I don't know if anyone else mentioned this in the previous threads, but, imo the most unnecessary thing in the movie was giving C-3PO a red arm. Because this bit also lacks the background info required. All we get is a short line from 3PO lamenting to BB-8 about missing the golden arm, and how he can't wait to get it back.

But C-3PO's appearance on screen did provide one of the bigger laughter moments.

I laughed when Threepio popped up with his finger pointing at Han's face, but thought the following line about his arm was very clumsily done. I didn't notice that he had a gold one at the end, which makes me wonder why they bothered at all (aside from the fact that it means more toys to sell).

[JonArryn]

Kylo Ren was definitely the worst villain we've seen so far, and Snoke was even more bland and uninteresting. By the way, regarding the lightsaber fight, those who say that it is plausible. Imagine if an untrained person would face a medieval knight or feudal samurai with 15 years of sword traing. I can pretty much guarantee that fight would be over within 5 seconds. So no, this was by far the worst lightsabre fighting in this movie series. 

[Ran]

You don't know she's untrained.

[Corvinus85]

Kylo Ren was definitely the worst villain we've seen so far, and Snoke was even more bland and uninteresting. By the way, regarding the lightsaber fight, those who say that it is plausible. Imagine if an untrained person would face a medieval knight or feudal samurai with 15 years of sword traing. I can pretty much guarantee that fight would be over within 5 seconds. So no, this was by far the worst lightsabre fighting in this movie series. 

Except she knows how to fight. She used her staff effectively enough. And considering that Kylo Ren also doesn't seem to know any specific lightsaber forms, it's not far fetched that Rey with her own fighting techniques and newly found Force-enhanced reflexes could beat him.

[Magnar of Skagos]

Kylo Ren was definitely the worst villain we've seen so far, and Snoke was even more bland and uninteresting. By the way, regarding the lightsaber fight, those who say that it is plausible. Imagine if an untrained person would face a medieval knight or feudal samurai with 15 years of sword traing. I can pretty much guarantee that fight would be over within 5 seconds. So no, this was by far the worst lightsabre fighting in this movie series. 

To be fair, in real life, knights did not do spins or huge, sweeping flourished either. Remember when you were a kid with a small tree branch fighting your friend and how un-cinematic that must have looked? That's the reality of it.  Any other way than they did it in the movie and it would have been uninteresting. If we just saw Rey get absolutely destroyed, there would be nothing compelling about the scene.

[JonArryn]

You don't know she's untrained.

I know, she probably is trained. But even if she is trained, considering the flashback we get, the young girl we see as Rey might be, say 8 years old, maybe 9 tops when she was left on Jakku. So you guys are saying a 9 year old was so well trained in lightsabre combat and the force that it would lie in her mind and just waiting to get out when she was older. That's way too much and not plausible at all for a 9 year old to have come that far in her training. 

Did you see the young Jedis Yoda trained in revenge of The Sith, they were basically standing still and just parrying that flying ball Luke trains with at the start? That's the extent of training a 9 year old Jedi has had, so even if she was trained, she would be way too young to have developed lightsabre combat rivaling a Sith who was maybe 20 when he turned and therefore has been trained by Luke all his formative years. I know your point, but I just still can't buy it, even if they try to give that explanation in the upcoming movie. 

 

 

[Ran]

That's the extent of training they may have had in the Old Republic, but Luke post-dates the Old Republic, and if he decided to start training someone from a very young age... who knows how he would approach it? He'd have only the extremely limited experience of learning a tiny bit from Obi-Wan and somewhat more from Yoda to go by. He might have approached things quite differently...

But that leads into the pet theory of mine that Rey's been subjected to training in the Force from infancy, in a way that the Jedi never did before, thereby explaining her extraordinary aptitude.

[MerenthaClone]

"Please listen to my very strong opinions about the realistic outcome of space wizards fighting with laser swords"

 

[Derfel Cadarn]

If a medieval knight took a crossbow bolt to the torso, a lesser trained opponent would have a fair chance

[Magnar of Skagos]

"Please listen to my very strong opinions about the realistic outcome of space wizards fighting with laser swords"

 

My point was that the whole comparison with medieval warriors to Star Wars doesn't work, because next to none of it is accurate.