Stannis is the man....nis Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Well at least for me it's not "oh they did something not from the books that makes it bad" it's "oh they did something not from the books and it was bad". For example I don't mind Theon killing Ser Rodrik or Arya being with Tywin over Roose because while different it still made sense. I have even stated that Sansa as Jenye is not a plot I'm against what I hate is the execution of her/Stannis stories because it reeks of personal bias from D&D and cheap shock value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Is killing ser Rodrik a replacement for killing Mikken (who refused to bow/but slain by Stygg) or killing Farlen (scapegoat for the murders/executed byTheon)? It is kind of both, no? But I can indeed understand the choice they made here. The dead of Mikken and Farlen is upsetting because they were present in the books while they were nameless in the show (which I can understand because the cast has to be limited). It is important to show some people were upset with Theon. And it is also important that Theon executes somebody to have a parallel with Robb and Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Arya executes Dareon... in the books. But on the show... blood and gore fest. I really don't want to watch it again, but Trant was on her list because of Syrio, so why not for once not go there with gratuitous sexual violence, and focus on SYRIO instead of turning Trant into someone who gets off on abusing girls. They screwed up the ending of the Hound vs. Beric to force fit a "not today" reference for Arya in season 3, making him laugh instead of cry, which was a huge injustice to him and his story, not to mention completely illogical that being burned would make the Hound laugh. So why not keep it simple, and focus the season 5 kill on Syrio. And they even set it up in season 4. She wanted to kill Trant because of Syrio. She didn't have a big sword and armor, so she needed something else. Why not CLEVERLY (and calmly) have her use poison. No sexual violence that way, no retroactively sexually abusing Sansa, no young virgin to be brutally raped in a drawn out story in the brothel, because it's not like there hasn't been enough focus on rape and brothels in this show, but something relevant to Arya's evolution. And if you build up to avenging Syrio spanning seasons, as they did, you keep the focus on Syrio. Also the faces, what the hell. Way to take the drama out of that. Just put it on, take it off, like it's a hat. And the 52 pickup with the faces in the end was just plain confusing. No one even knows what happened, that's not "titillating," that's stoopid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous Gabe Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said: I have a question for those who came to the books via the show. If series 1 & 2 had been s 4 & 5 level of stoopid, would you have read the books? The honest answer is that I cannot say with any degree of certainty either way. Not helpful, I know. The basic ideas are there in season one because it is much more faithful and I think it is those that got me interested. There are numerous flaws for sure but the base ideas are there and I remember really wanting to learn more about this world, which I knew the books would give me. I admit I've never been much of a reader, I go through phases where I read lots of books but it never lasts. I can go through a year of constantly reading and then absolutely nothing the next year. I've always been more into films and TV series'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said: I have a question for those who came to the books via the show. If series 1 & 2 had been s 4 & 5 level of stoopid, would you have read the books? If they had started out with season 5 level of plot holes, the sand snakes, the terrible choreography, the terrible pacing, I probably would have assumed the source material was equally weak. Season 4 was uneven, but I don't think we can call it overall "stupid" it had a lot of excellent segments, but you just started to see more and more plot holes and continuity issues and the leaning toward "OMG" moments as opposed to real storytelling. The show can definitely be judged as an adaptation, since that's what it is. However, as others have said, even omitting criticism based on characterization, or a tendency to shock and awe.... the continuity flaws have become overwhelming to anyone who is able to pay sufficient attention. Jon returning to the other side of the wall. Stannis and his map of long lake and everything else about that. The forgotten Lannister necklace. Arya and the Hound at the Vale. When you add in the bad choreography in so many of the fight scenes, pretty much all of them from season 5, the terrible lighting in some of the segments, yeah, Red Dress/Black Dress, I'm talking about you. These are TELEVISION FLAWS. They have nothing to do with the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 48 minutes ago, Tijgy said: Is killing ser Rodrik a replacement for killing Mikken (who refused to bow/but slain by Stygg) or killing Farlen (scapegoat for the murders/executed byTheon)? It is kind of both, no? But I can indeed understand the choice they made here. The dead of Mikken and Farlen is upsetting because they were present in the books while they were nameless in the show (which I can understand because the cast has to be limited). It is important to show some people were upset with Theon. And it is also important that Theon executes somebody to have a parallel with Robb and Jon. That was actually an example of a good choice. A change that makes sense for TV, because we can't become attached to that many people. So, focusing on Sir Rodrick was a good idea. It was a very moving scene, well written. Theon Greyjoy now you are truly lost is the kind of change I can get behind. It preserves the essence of the book: Theon can't go back, he's crossed a line here, he's chosen not losing face over what he knows is right, it's all there in the TV version--motivation, character growth, poignancy. Those days are gone. Now we got the bad pussy instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 @Cas Stark, I really don't see that much difference between s 4 and 5 in terms of overall quality, or lack thereof. I may need to watch s 4 again... I'd found s 2 & 3 to be very uneven, with a few good scenes interspersed with things I really, really disliked. When s 4 started, not only I was coming from 2 series I didn't really like, plus 5 12h shifts a week + long commute. So, I watched it as it aired, but I was sort of always tired. Maybe that's the only thing I can blame for falling asleep several times during s 4... BUT... I dislike very much most if not all of what I do remember: Bran, Osha and the Reeds, battle at CB, Craster's rape shack... What else was there? Can't remember... ps: agree re Rodrick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 On 1/30/2016 at 0:03 PM, kissdbyfire said: Maybe that's the only thing I can blame for falling asleep several times during s 4... BUT... I dislike very much most if not all of what I do remember: Bran, Osha and the Reeds, battle at CB, Craster's rape shack... What else was there? Can't remember... Also Meera almost raped, just because. Bronn chiding Jaime for not honoring St. Tyrion. St. Tyrion horning in on Jaime and Brienne's goodbye scene a la the tender gift to Pod (who he forgot in the books, instead, Brienne, who took care of Pod in the books, is nasty to him). Sansa sobbing about the Red Wedding in front of a Lannister. Only Your Sister! I know what you want! (Who cares what Sansa wants.) Darth Sansa! Mini Needle! The Hound stealing silver instead of working hard and wishing he could settle down but leaving peacefully. Nothing is just nothing! The SanSan slaps (Sansa slapping SR, Sandor slapping Arya). Arya and the Hound at the Bloody Gate but no one cares! The Hound vs. Brienne! Jaime raping Cersei! And sweeping aside the White Book and fucking the sister who wanted to kill his brother in the White Sword Tower, then oddly rescuing him. Cersei threatening Tywin to blab about committing incest (TREASON)! Beetles! St. Tyrion killing Shae in self-defense! Forgetting about Tysha, just killing Tywin because he called a whore a whore! Oberyn living at THE brothel! Burping whores! Cannibal Thenns! Hell hath no fury like Ygritte scorned! POTATOES! Olly. (And these are all show changes...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 4 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: @Cas Stark, I really don't see that much difference between s 4 and 5 in terms of overall quality, or lack thereof. I may need to watch s 4 again... I'd found s 2 & 3 to be very uneven, with a few good scenes interspersed with things I really, really disliked. When s 4 started, not only I was coming from 2 series I didn't really like, plus 5 12h shifts a week + long commute. So, I watched it as it aired, but I was sort of always tired. Maybe that's the only thing I can blame for falling asleep several times during s 4... BUT... I dislike very much most if not all of what I do remember: Bran, Osha and the Reeds, battle at CB, Craster's rape shack... What else was there? Can't remember... ps: agree re Rodrick. Episode 1. It was fantastic, Tywin melting down Ice, Arya and the Hound at the chicken shack, LOL. There was Oberyn's intro, despite the unnecessary T&A it was still great. The music was great, ending the scene with "Tell your father I'm here, tell him the Lannister's aren't the only one's who pay their debts. Most of Arya and the Hound was good, though somewhat unnecessary. Selmy showing up in Essos. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't "great" but compared to season 5 where literally everything was terrible, even Hardhome though it was good in context of "action" still was full of fucking plot holes....it was a masterpiece. LOL. I liked Season 2, though I know most people didn't. I didn't mind Qarth as much as most. Season 3 is where I went over the edge, but compared to 4 and 5, again, it's a masterpiece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyBazooka Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Season 1 = smooth sailing, great television Season 2 = some bumps along the road, but still great television Season 3 = this is kinda a bumpy ride guys, but at least we got to our destination Season 4 = guys, where are you going? the road's that way... Season 5 = you know when skyrim first came out and you walked up to a giant and then got sent flying into space when it hit you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TepidHands Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I had just finished up a trio of sci-fi books on my first- generation Kindle while sitting in a hospital with my father- in- law, who was very sick. I knew I needed to start reading something big, because I was going to be sitting in hospital rooms for a while. So I downloaded AGoT. Over the next couple months, I devoured the first four. That was in early 2010. I downloaded aDwD the day it was released. I've never read them on actual paper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 2 hours ago, Cas Stark said: Episode 1. It was fantastic, Tywin melting down Ice, Arya and the Hound at the chicken shack, LOL. There was Oberyn's intro, despite the unnecessary T&A it was still great. The music was great, ending the scene with "Tell your father I'm here, tell him the Lannister's aren't the only one's who pay their debts. Most of Arya and the Hound was good, though somewhat unnecessary. Selmy showing up in Essos. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't "great" but compared to season 5 where literally everything was terrible, even Hardhome though it was good in context of "action" still was full of fucking plot holes....it was a masterpiece. LOL. Yeah, it's odd that I was rather upbeat after episode 1, after being so disappointed by season 3, but then it all went downhill from there. In spite of all the plot holes and silly changes, I liked Arya and the Hound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 4 hours ago, LongRider said: I don't watch much TV, and didn't have cable or satellite TV at the time. But I heard the phrase 'Game of Thrones' here and there but it wasn't until the RW aired and a hue and cry went up in the land that I decided to check out the show. I put the DVD's on hold at the library and waited months before I could watch season 1. It was because of all the buzz seasons 1>3 had received that peaked my interest. At the time, I wasn't much into reading fantasy, especially 'Sword and Sorcery' types. My brother had copies of the books and I think he had told me about them before that time but I wasn't interested. But the shows were good! If the shows had been like season 4-5 I don't think they would have had the following and the buzz so I might never have watched them and then never read the books. So I'm glad for GOT for bringing me to the books. I'm sorry to see the show go to shit tho, it's too bad. My experience was similar. I hadn't even heard of GOT until after about season 3. My brother mentioned it to me and then I watched all three seasons and then read the books. The books really raised my expecations for season 4 and 5, which turned out to be disapointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 22 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: Yeah, it's odd that I was rather upbeat after episode 1, after being so disappointed by season 3, but then it all went downhill from there. In spite of all the plot holes and silly changes, I liked Arya and the Hound. Me too. The ep was so good I thought, wow, maybe they absorbed some of the criticism about Season 3 and they've really worked to tighten everything up, and against all my expectations 4 will be better than 3. Ha. Silly idea. But, that hope was quashed quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 What's really sad is you never get a tear in your eye with this show. Good shows, you remember back to a moving scene, maybe something reminds you, or you see a picture or something, and suddenly you are all verklempt. For all their "you can only care about characters you know" nonsense, we don't know these characters at all, and it's not just that, because you can care about characters you only see briefly, it's that they don't seem real. So it's like it didn't really happen, any of it. And that's counter to what telling a story is about, there's no connection to the audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 18 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: What's really sad is you never get a tear in your eye with this show. Good shows, you remember back to a moving scene, maybe something reminds you, or you see a picture or something, and suddenly you are all verklempt. Okay, I don't want to go off-topic, but what do you mean by verklempt? Is that even a word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 1 minute ago, Toth said: Okay, I don't want to go off-topic, but what do you mean by verklempt? Is that even a word? Here you go: http://judaism.about.com/od/glossary/g/Definition-Of-Verklempt-Yiddish-Word.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 27 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: What's really sad is you never get a tear in your eye with this show. Good shows, you remember back to a moving scene, maybe something reminds you, or you see a picture or something, and suddenly you are all verklempt. For all their "you can only care about characters you know" nonsense, we don't know these characters at all, and it's not just that, because you can care about characters you only see briefly, it's that they don't seem real. So it's like it didn't really happen, any of it. And that's counter to what telling a story is about, there's no connection to the audience. I don't know. This show has made me cry, like "Oh, what it could have been!!!" sniffle, sniffle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 3 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: Here you go: http://judaism.about.com/od/glossary/g/Definition-Of-Verklempt-Yiddish-Word.htm Ah thanks. Well, I thought it sounded somewhat German, but considering that the only similar-sounding word means the exact opposite of what it actually means kinda cought me off-guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 1 minute ago, OldGimletEye said: I don't know. This show has made me cry, like "Oh, what it could have been!!!" sniffle, sniffle. Yes, there's that, too. No big whoop! http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/coffee-talk/n10218 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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