House Cambodia Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Just now, Neds Secret said: Are you referring to show or books, or both? Oh, books of course. fAegon isn't in the show, in which case Varys will simply behave in mysterious ways and viewers won't have any idea why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magog Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 46 minutes ago, House Cambodia said: R'hllor's colour is red - Fire. A blue flame = ice, i.e. The Great Other. Very well observed. It makes sense. Could it be that that second class sorcerer summoned WWs back using Varys' manhood? But that would be like 50+ years ago, right? What would they be doing that long? It would explain why they were looming around in the first episode of season 1 and in prologue of the first book, though... 2 minutes ago, House Cambodia said: Great stuff, thanks for sharing. To answer your last question - Varys is batting for False Aegon, who is also from a bastard Targaryen line. Of course he wants to off Dany. If he gives any credence to this Red Priestess, it might really shake him up. FWIW, I've been positing on other threads that R'hllor is effectively Satan and Azor Ahai the antichrist. I think that is Dany! In the show, Aegon is not even introduced, so I doubt he will be now. But, who knows.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magog Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Just now, House Cambodia said: Oh, books of course. fAegon isn't in the show, in which case Varys will simply behave in mysterious ways and viewers won't have any idea why. Hahaha, you made me laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magog Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Hey, btw, I remembered that Old Nan's story about the Others.. did they not ride spiders? Quite convenient nickname, Varys. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Cambodia Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Just now, Magog said: Very well observed. It makes sense. Could it be that that second class sorcerer summoned WWs back using Varys' manhood? But that would be like 50+ years ago, right? What would they be doing that long? It would explain why they were looming around in the first episode of season 1 and in prologue of the first book, though... I've been speculating about that elsewhere, creating a thread entitled 'When did the Others activate'?" Your timing would be plausible, but I personally don't think Varys is central enough for your idea to have credence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhail Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Magic, religion and prophecy is pretty non-existent and inconsistent on the show so, i dont think its possible to predict where all this stuff is going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dames do Moan Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 8 hours ago, rocksniffer said: FYI.. Ha thanks, I know the history in world of the Wall, but the winners right the history books. We'll figure out the Others made the Wall IMO anyway, but different thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiemal Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 4 hours ago, House Cambodia said: R'hllor's colour is red - Fire. A blue flame = ice, i.e. The Great Other. As far as flames go, we have black and red fire like that which spews from Drogon and Balerion of old; we have the green flames the alchemists whip up and name "the substance" but everyone else calls wildfire; we have blue flames from this sorcery (and possible non-canon blue flames from burning Ironwood). Considering the color blue's representation in the rather sinister wine-of-the-warlocks, shade-of-the-evening you may be on to something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dames do Moan Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 12 minutes ago, hiemal said: As far as flames go, we have black and red fire like that which spews from Drogon and Balerion of old; we have the green flames the alchemists whip up and name "the substance" but everyone else calls wildfire; we have blue flames from this sorcery (and possible non-canon blue flames from burning Ironwood). Considering the color blue's representation in the rather sinister wine-of-the-warlocks, shade-of-the-evening you may be on to something. Ha Ironwoods, I always figured they made it blue because regular fire wouldn't come across well on the screen but who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Mosse Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 9 hours ago, Neds Secret said: I'm over the red witches and Rhollor, show Stannis sacrificed everything and recieved fuck all for it, they are pure charlatan, the show can't have it's cake and eat it too, red priestesses either have prophetic abilities or they don't, it feels cheap that one minute they are psychic and the next they are not, I don't think that it is that 'one minute they are psychic and the next they are not', I think it's that Melisandre fucked up. She was having genuine prophetic visions but interpreted them incorrectly. The question is, did she just get it wrong randomly, or is she being deliberately misled? It is possible that some other entity all together is misleading the whole religion by pretending to be the Great Rhollor and is showing them visions, but is actually a sorcerer, demon or something else that has invented Rhollor in order to suck these people in and is only showing half truths so as to mislead. Or, it could be the case that someone was just targeting Melisandre to confuse her and get her to the wall so she would be there to re-animate Jon, as someone mentioned above? I don't know, but I definitely think that there is more to learn about the whole Rhollor faith in general, and Mel in particular. This doesn't mean that the Red Priestesses have no genuine powers - notMel could easily have some genuine insight into what happened to Varys and what was spoken from the flames, even if her overall world vision is totally wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Renee Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 22 hours ago, Good Guy Garlan said: Quaithe? Speaking through a glass candle? Maybe even Quaithe = Kinvara in the show canon. Unless she can change her voice and eye color I don't think they are one in the same. Quaithe had dark brown eyes and a different accent (I've been rewatching season two). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Renee Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 I noticed that when jorah spoke with Quaithe in s2 (while she was painting a ladies back) she told him something along the lines of needing protection when he travels around Valeria. .. seems like she was warning him about the Grey men/contracting grey scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Gareth Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 On 24 May 2016 at 2:08 PM, TheRevanchist said: Always thought that it will be ice vs fire, but then that looks too simple for Martin. He made a world that is very great, so difficult to see that the climax will be a typical Lord of the Rings/Star Wars 'good vs evil' story. What if it is humanity against ice and fire. So Daenerys to be a villain, not a hero. Yep, always thought that the Others will be more complex, but it looks that they are just Terminators. Or, if you want to be a bit more philosophical, they are the planet's response to humans destroying the planet. I think GRRM has been hyped up beyond reality regarding the complexity of the story. It's not a complex story. The characters in the story aren't complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksniffer Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 10 hours ago, The Dames do Moan said: Ha thanks, I know the history in world of the Wall, but the winners right the history books. We'll figure out the Others made the Wall IMO anyway, but different thread ok just wondered if you knew...i tend to agree that the real origin of the Wall will not be what we expect... perhaps it will determine the outcome of the final battle.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Nah, I am shocked that no one has realized what that scene really meant. Kinvara is telling Varys about what happened to him as a child, and asks if he would like for her to name who spoke. She doesn't need to name the speaker, because Varys; clearly by his expression; is recognizing Kinvara's voice. What makes matters worse, is Kinvara asking if he would like for her to tell him what the voice said. Then she places a reassuring hand on his arm, and tells him that he need not fear her, since they are both friends of Daenerys. Kinvara is another very old soul, that is hiding behind a ruby at her throat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagwell Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 It was Hodor... (Had to do it one last time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Cambodia Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 11 hours ago, House Mosse said: I don't think that it is that 'one minute they are psychic and the next they are not', I think it's that Melisandre fucked up. She was having genuine prophetic visions but interpreted them incorrectly. The question is, did she just get it wrong randomly, or is she being deliberately misled? It is possible that some other entity all together is misleading the whole religion by pretending to be the Great Rhollor and is showing them visions, but is actually a sorcerer, demon or something else that has invented Rhollor in order to suck these people in and is only showing half truths so as to mislead. Or, it could be the case that someone was just targeting Melisandre to confuse her and get her to the wall so she would be there to re-animate Jon, as someone mentioned above? I don't know, but I definitely think that there is more to learn about the whole Rhollor faith in general, and Mel in particular. This doesn't mean that the Red Priestesses have no genuine powers - notMel could easily have some genuine insight into what happened to Varys and what was spoken from the flames, even if her overall world vision is totally wrong. Occam's Razor - the simple explanation is that R'hllor is a evil deity - Satan, in our language. Take a closer look at the supposed deeds of this god who originates in Asshai - nothing moral about him. An overlooked sentence at the beginning of TWOIAF (p.20) states, "The gods the children worshipped were the nameless ones...". R'hllor's dualistic adversary is 'The One Who Cannot Be Named'. I'm making the connection that we have an Ice God from the West and a Fire God from the East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 Kinvara was sexy - reminded me of Rachael Weisz. She probably has a grangina like Mel though As for who Varys heard in the flames I'd like to think it was the demon R'hllor, father of dragons - but I don't think that it would mean anything to Varys. Varys has never heard Dany's voice, so it wasn't her, even though she seems to be R'hllors chosen harbinger. Varys has also never heard or been made aware of Bran, so I doubt it was his voice. What if it was Little Fingers? What if Little Finger is actually R'hllor (or some kind of demon) walking among men? What if Chaos is more than a ladder to him, but a way of existence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Cambodia Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 When young Varys was chopped, he'd never met LF, and Bran and Dany weren't even born. Couldn't be R'hllor in my op - both GRRM and D&D avoid stating that any of the deities objectively exist. I'm assuming it was either her voice, his own voice, a parent or someone the kid knew at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 4 minutes ago, House Cambodia said: When young Varys was chopped, he'd never met LF, and Bran and Dany weren't even born. Well, considering that the sound of the voice was burned into his memory when he was chopped and that he matched it to a voice he heard later in life, not that he recognised the voice when he was chopped. Jeez, he was what? 12? He was a mummer but not even a thief yet, from memory. How many people important to the story would he have met by then? So I'm thinking it must be a voice he heard later and recognised as the voice from the flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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