The Sad Life of Edmure Tully

[Lord Cactus]

I realized today that Edmure might be the character who gets beat down the most in this series. Maybe behind Harys Swyft, but that's for another topic.

Anyway, Edmure starts out as a dude that just wants a woman. He sleeps with a bunch of them, and naturally gets drunk once and it doesn't go well, leading to a singer to write an entire song about it. Edmure obviously holds a grudge about this.

But Edmure's pathetic tale continues as his moron of a sister arrests the son of the extremely rich lord to the south. What's more, she doesn't send any help to him yet. So, since his dad is dying of an illness, it is up to little Edmure to defend the Riverlands, which aren't remotely prepared, for a giant Lannister invasion with Gregor Clegane destroying everything in sight.

Yep. Totally has this.

So, Edmure summons the lords to help him. Shockingly, Walder Frey doesn't respond (thanks a lot Walder). Edmure tells his dad they should try to fight back!

And his dad says no.

So they are left defending the borders while Beric Dondarrion dies for like the 12th time out on the field.

And what do you know? He fails, and he's captured by the Lannisters. Nice.

Thankfully, Catelyn finally decides to stop being a goober and marches with his nephew Robb. They arrive and defeat the Lannisters. Hooray! Edmure may have failed, but he did all he could. Surely Robb will appreciate that?

Robb's men crown Robb King-In-The-North. Who cares? Now Edmure his the uncle of a king! That's pretty cool. And he'll be rewarded for his good...work...Robb?

Nope. Instead, Robb marches back North to retake his home, and tells Edmure to hold the rear. You know, the same spot he tried holding before and failed. Awesome.

Edmure does what he can, but the Lannisters continue to burn everything to the ground. In his attempt to be a good ruler, he lets the peasants hide in Riverrun for protection. He won't be able to feed them for long, but better that than watching them become a barbecue by not doing anything, right?

Finally, things start to be going Edmure's way. He beats Gregor Clegane in battle, and pushes back his forces. GREGOR. AS IN, THE MOUNTAIN! He's the king of the freaking world right now. Eat it Robb. Edmure is finally looking decent.

HA! That won't last.

Robb returns and tells Edmure he did a great job. However, turns out that he ruined Robb's plans of shattering the host, and allowed the Lannisters to continue on and fight at Blackwater (this one was just cruel George).

A sad moment. Hoster Tully dies. In his grief, Edmure is unable to set his father on fire. His uncle Blackfish does it for him, and he is ridiculed by everyone there mentally.

Meanwhile, Robb screws everybody over by marrying Jeyne Westerling. It falls to Edmure (what?) to solve the crisis. Edmure, being a decent uncle, agrees to Robb's terms to marry Roslin Frey and reunite Robb's bannermen.

To everyone's surprise, Roslin is attractive! Finally! Everything is looking up for Edmure!

That is, until everyone he knows and loves is slaughtered at the wedding.

Now held hostage, Edmure is taken outside the now besieged Riverrun everyday with the threat of being hanged. His uncle couldn't care less. Gee. Thanks Uncle Blackfish.

Jaime Lannister is somehow the one that comes to his rescue. Roslin is pregnant (hooray! Something good!) and Jaime offers to make him a comfortable prisoner at Casterly Rock so long as he surrenders Riverrun. He also meets up with the same singer that wrote that song about him years ago. Wonderful.

So he surrenders Riverrun, but not before allowing his somewhat ungrateful uncle to escape by swimming.

And now, our gallant hero marches to Casterly Rock to be made a prisoner. With his luck, he'll probably be the prologue for Winds.

 

[daccu65]

I always thought Eddy got a raw deal.  Yes, he did a few dumb things but he always seemed to be put up against impossible odds (the initial Lannister invasion into the Riverlands) or being treated like a child. 

I never understood the criticism against him for the Battle of the Fords.  Neither Robb nor Brynden ever told him that the plan was to lure the Lannisters west.  Instead, they told him to hold Riverrun.  When Eddy learns that the same Lannister host that has been burning, raping, murdering and generally despoiling all through the Riverlands is on the move, he takes some initiative and hits them when they're vulnerable...crossing rivers. 

From what I understood, when the Freys had him standing on the gallows, day after day, in front of Riverrun, he never once begged for mercy or shouted to his uncle to give up.  Even when Jaime showed up, after a moment of fear he told the guy to just finish him off.  While I don't like Jaime, I have to admit that he did a good job of pointing out that he would send the other Riverlanders at the walls of Riverrun first, pointing out how hopeless the cause was. 

That said, I'm hoping he has a chance to break free and retake Riverrun from the Frey/Lannister couple that now have it.

 

[MinotaurWarrior]

Edmure is one of those figures who represents the highest ideals of faux-medieval fantasy nobility, and it's for that reason that nothing can ever go his way. All of his most critical mistakes are made in the name of protecting the innocent. If fate weren't stacked against him, there would have been no feast for the crows. 

[Floki of the Ironborn]

28 minutes ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

Edmure is one of those figures who represents the highest ideals of faux-medieval fantasy nobility, and it's for that reason that nothing can ever go his way. All of his most critical mistakes are made in the name of protecting the innocent.

So, in a way, does that make him the Baelor Breakspear of his time?

[Trigger Warning]

I really don't see how anyone can put themselves in Edmure's shoes and look at Tywin returning West with 20,000 or so men to deal with Edmure's king who has 5,000 or so men and then prioritise keeping Tywin away from Kingslanding which the Tyrell's would have probably relieved anyway. 

Everyone would be shitting on him even more if Tywin and returned West and put Robb's head on a pointy stick. 

Probably saying he hid behind his walls and let Tywin pass.

Edmure literally cannot win. 

 

[YOVMO]

2 hours ago, Lord Cactus said:

I realized today that Edmure might be the character who gets beat down the most in this series. Maybe behind Harys Swyft, but that's for another topic.

Anyway, Edmure starts out as a dude that just wants a woman. He sleeps with a bunch of them, and naturally gets drunk once and it doesn't go well, leading to a singer to write an entire song about it. Edmure obviously holds a grudge about this.

But Edmure's pathetic tale continues as his moron of a sister arrests the son of the extremely rich lord to the south. What's more, she doesn't send any help to him yet. So, since his dad is dying of an illness, it is up to little Edmure to defend the Riverlands, which aren't remotely prepared, for a giant Lannister invasion with Gregor Clegane destroying everything in sight.

Yep. Totally has this.

So, Edmure summons the lords to help him. Shockingly, Walder Frey doesn't respond (thanks a lot Walder). Edmure tells his dad they should try to fight back!

And his dad says no.

So they are left defending the borders while Beric Dondarrion dies for like the 12th time out on the field.

And what do you know? He fails, and he's captured by the Lannisters. Nice.

Thankfully, Catelyn finally decides to stop being a goober and marches with his nephew Robb. They arrive and defeat the Lannisters. Hooray! Edmure may have failed, but he did all he could. Surely Robb will appreciate that?

Robb's men crown Robb King-In-The-North. Who cares? Now Edmure his the uncle of a king! That's pretty cool. And he'll be rewarded for his good...work...Robb?

Nope. Instead, Robb marches back North to retake his home, and tells Edmure to hold the rear. You know, the same spot he tried holding before and failed. Awesome.

Edmure does what he can, but the Lannisters continue to burn everything to the ground. In his attempt to be a good ruler, he lets the peasants hide in Riverrun for protection. He won't be able to feed them for long, but better that than watching them become a barbecue by not doing anything, right?

Finally, things start to be going Edmure's way. He beats Gregor Clegane in battle, and pushes back his forces. GREGOR. AS IN, THE MOUNTAIN! He's the king of the freaking world right now. Eat it Robb. Edmure is finally looking decent.

HA! That won't last.

Robb returns and tells Edmure he did a great job. However, turns out that he ruined Robb's plans of shattering the host, and allowed the Lannisters to continue on and fight at Blackwater (this one was just cruel George).

A sad moment. Hoster Tully dies. In his grief, Edmure is unable to set his father on fire. His uncle Blackfish does it for him, and he is ridiculed by everyone there mentally.

Meanwhile, Robb screws everybody over by marrying Jeyne Westerling. It falls to Edmure (what?) to solve the crisis. Edmure, being a decent uncle, agrees to Robb's terms to marry Roslin Frey and reunite Robb's bannermen.

To everyone's surprise, Roslin is attractive! Finally! Everything is looking up for Edmure!

That is, until everyone he knows and loves is slaughtered at the wedding.

Now held hostage, Edmure is taken outside the now besieged Riverrun everyday with the threat of being hanged. His uncle couldn't care less. Gee. Thanks Uncle Blackfish.

Jaime Lannister is somehow the one that comes to his rescue. Roslin is pregnant (hooray! Something good!) and Jaime offers to make him a comfortable prisoner at Casterly Rock so long as he surrenders Riverrun. He also meets up with the same singer that wrote that song about him years ago. Wonderful.

So he surrenders Riverrun, but not before allowing his somewhat ungrateful uncle to escape by swimming.

And now, our gallant hero marches to Casterly Rock to be made a prisoner. With his luck, he'll probably be the prologue for Winds.

 

Yes to everything and, frankly, perfectly put. Nice f'n job

[Lord Cactus]

3 hours ago, Trigger Warning said:

I really don't see how anyone can put themselves in Edmure's shoes and look at Tywin returning West with 20,000 or so men to deal with Edmure's king who has 5,000 or so men and then prioritise keeping Tywin away from Kingslanding which the Tyrell's would have probably relieved anyway. 

Everyone would be shitting on him even more if Tywin and returned West and put Robb's head on a pointy stick. 

Probably saying he hid behind his walls and let Tywin pass.

Edmure literally cannot win. 

 

No matter what he does, he finds a magic way to get screwed over.

[James Steller]

3 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

So, in a way, does that make him the Baelor Breakspear of his time?

Only in the sense that he does the right thing even when it leads to disaster, but in all other ways he's nothing like Baelor, at least as far as I can tell.

[Blackfish Tully]

18 hours ago, Lord Cactus said:

 

Now held hostage, Edmure is taken outside the now besieged Riverrun everyday with the threat of being hanged. His uncle couldn't care less. Gee. Thanks Uncle Blackfish.

 

 

It's not that the Blackfish couldn't care less (Edmure is the only family he has left except for Lysa who betrayed him and Robin)  but the Blackfish was smart enough to know that no matter what he did the Freys were going to kill Edmure so whether or not he surrendered the castle had nothing to do with whether or not the Freys killed Edmure . Unless you think that he could trust the Freys to be honorable and keep their word? 

 

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

18 hours ago, Lord Cactus said:

Anyway, Edmure starts out as a dude that just wants a woman. He sleeps with a bunch of them, and naturally gets drunk once and it doesn't go well, leading to a singer to write an entire song about it. Edmure obviously holds a grudge about this.

The part above doesn't really matter much. If he wasn't so defensive the song would have never been made...I  would guess. 

Anyways, i don't know how you can compare Edmure to say......Jeyne Pool. At least Edmure doesn't have to be raped and tortured repeatedly. If you want to go with a larger lord, then how about Loras Tyrell. His lover and leader was murdered, then his sister's name was tarnished, then the people he was supposed to have an alliance with wouldn't send forces to protect his people. Finally, trying to protect said people, he was mortally wounded (perhaps). Sansa Stark seems to be coming out ahead, but she also had it pretty shitty for awhile and was constantly beat down. Hell, Brienne of Tarth is trying pretty hard to be the model of chivalry, yet she is pretty much constantly beat down. People don't respect her from start to finish, and fans don't respect her either despite the fact that I think her chapters are the saving grace of AFFC. I'm not saying Brienne herself is hugely interesting, although I think she is more interesting than people give her credit for...but mostly her chapters are just awesome. There was the long winded speech about broken men that I think is an excellent and apt explanation for the problem of evil in the world, and humanizes those that people often seek to demonize. There was her fight with the ex-Brave Companions, there was the stuff on the Quiet Isle. Anyways, I'm saying I think although Edmure does get the shaft time, he got to marry a pretty woman, had a pretty good family life until recently, and mostly had a good life up tell the War of Five Kings. Many other characters have been screwed over more often and for their entire lives rather than only recently. If you are going with any character (not just high born), then we all know every single peasant in this universe is just f***ed...., but even among high born, I think there are many characters (including those I named, but also others) who get screwed over more often. 

[CJ McLannister]

My first time through I didn't think much of Edmure, but on rereading, he comes across as much more compelling.  Everything we read about him is from his bitter older sister.  He seems to be an able lord.  He has strong relationships with many of his bannermen or their heirs.  He gives a crap about the smallfolk.  He even shows some strategic competence, but gets punished because it went against Robb's plan that nobody shared with him.

Even his surrender of the castle shows more concern for his people than many of the stubborn Lords of Westeros.  He's a good guy.  Maybe he shouldn't be Lord Paramount of an undefendable region, but I really hope things turn out OK for him.  

[Nittanian]

18 hours ago, Trigger Warning said:

I really don't see how anyone can put themselves in Edmure's shoes and look at Tywin returning West with 20,000 or so men to deal with Edmure's king who has 5,000 or so men and then prioritise keeping Tywin away from Kingslanding which the Tyrell's would have probably relieved anyway. 

Everyone would be shitting on him even more if Tywin and returned West and put Robb's head on a pointy stick. 

Probably saying he hid behind his walls and let Tywin pass.

Edmure literally cannot win.

I agree. The rivermen guard Robb's rear when he heads west to deal with Stafford, and they believe he is plundering the west ("the Young Wolf was paying the Lannisters back in kind") after Oxcross. Edmure and his bannermen expect to reunite with Robb when he returns east, unaware of any plans the king has developed for Tywin in the meantime. Edmure orders Helman to join Roose in taking Harrenhal; I wonder what Robb's intentions for Roose's infantry were after the Green Fork. He isn't mentioned in Catelyn's ACOK chapters until she returns to Riverrun, IIRC.

[Alan of Rosby]

I know we're talking about the books here but does anyone else get the feeling that the show gave Edmure a really horrible treatment? I remember finding him alright in the books but in the show he's an incompetent fool. 

[Lion of the West]

7 minutes ago, Alan of Rosby said:

I know we're talking about the books here but does anyone else get the feeling that the show gave Edmure a really horrible treatment? I remember finding him alright in the books but in the show he's an incompetent fool. 

I hear you. The show is fairly heavy handed in regards to most things and this part is not different.:(

[Wolf of the Steppes]

38 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

I hear you. The show is fairly heavy handed in regards to most things and this part is not different.:(

Well put......one of the many reasons I quit watching the show.

BTW- Nice post Cactus!  I've always thought he got a raw deal on many accounts, but seeing it put together like that.....Great Job!

[Alan of Rosby]

1 minute ago, Wolf of the Steppes said:

Well put......one of the many reasons I quit watching the show.

BTW- Nice post Cactus!  I've always thought he got a raw deal on many accounts, but seeing it put together like that.....Great Job!

 

44 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

I hear you. The show is fairly heavy handed in regards to most things and this part is not different.:(

I have a love/hate relationship with the show. It can be really stupid at times, and I'm not just talking about the shameless sexposition or bewbies scenes. But I still think it's one of the best fantasy TV series ever made. I suppose you can take that not as a defense of the show but as a comment about the paucity of good fantasy/sci fi on television. 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

1 hour ago, Alan of Rosby said:

I know we're talking about the books here but does anyone else get the feeling that the show gave Edmure a really horrible treatment? I remember finding him alright in the books but in the show he's an incompetent fool. 

 

It is a consequence of condensed storytelling and in fairness it took a fair number of years before the fandom started seeing Edmure differently. Some still see him as a buffoon.

There simply was not enough time on Edmure to really flesh him out, though they bridged a lot of that with some spectacular casting. Tobias Menzies nailed the role of the well meaning, inadequate, noble, proud Brutus in Rome.

[Lockjaw of House Boltagon]

Meh, could've been worse. Just ask Merrett Frey. 

[Señor de la Tormenta]

Uhm... I can sense the "robb bluffed to trick edmure to marry a frey" argument on the brink of starting again

 

I think he did 

[Westerosi Coast Gangster]

Its Edmure vs the plot basicially. He has to be the loser in order to make the story what it is. His plan was a good one. The goddamn Brackens and Blackwoods agreed on that. Hes the Theon/Lancel of the Riverlands.