Berlin terror attack

[Week]

15 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Tolerance and good wishes ain't gonna make this problem go away folks. An iron fist is what's needed instead.

With respect to what happened in Turkey ... an iron fist will come back to haunt you just the same. Many of these incidents are clear responses to the violence and rhetoric of the West perpetrated against Muslims at home and abroad.

[3CityApache]

7 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Tolerance and good wishes ain't gonna make this problem go away folks. 

Yeah, and closing the borders is going to solve it, sure. Especially with thousands of extremists of variety of sorts already within the EU, some of them for couple generations.

I have no idea where you got your idea that it takes pressure off the government from, it does nothing of a sort. Governments have their job, it has nothing whatsoever to do with people showing terrorism will not dictate what they should or shouldn't do. Closing the borders (what does that even mean exactly?) is among the worst and least effective methods govermnents could try to apply.

[Arakan]

18 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

This European notion of showing how terrorism will not impact their lives, by public displays of "normality" boggles the mind.

Basically, it just takes pressure off the government, who can then rely on public pressure on citizens to show how "resilient" they are by essentially pretending that terrorism does not touch them. In the end it just costs more lives as more terror attacks can be expected due to government inaction.

If instead people reacted with outrage, with mass protests to declare that this shit is not normal and is totally unacceptable in Europe, maybe the government will be forced to tighten up, lock their borders and generally grow a spine to deal with the issue forcefully and mercillessly. Until European citizens cross that Rubicon, their proud displays of polite bravery will just invite more of the same down the line.

Tolerance and good wishes ain't gonna make this problem go away folks. An iron fist is what's needed instead.

FNR, to talk about "iron fists" is always easy but, pray tell, what should "Europeans" in your opinion do? Protest against what? 

If you are referring to the mass immigration of Muslim "refugees" (someone from North Africa except Lybia or from Pakistan is not a refugee), this is already happening. But what else do you expect "us" to do. Please don't speak in general terms like for example the rightwing populist parties do but get specific. 

[Eyelesbarrow]

27 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

This European notion of showing how terrorism will not impact their lives, by public displays of "normality" boggles the mind.

Hmmm, no normality. Are you recommending a war on Christmas, then? 

[Arakan]

6 minutes ago, Week said:

With respect to what happened in Turkey ... an iron fist will come back to haunt you just the same. Many of these incidents are clear responses to the violence and rhetoric of the West perpetrated against Muslims at home and abroad.

Wow. 

The last sentence is so vile. Pray tell me, what has this "incident" to do with whatever you write there? Shame! So the victims on the Berlin Christmas market have been murdered in "response to the violence perpetrated against Muslims at home and abroad"? 

This sentence I quoted is so vile and ugly like all the sentences Neo-Nazis and Anti-Semits say!  I am fucking shocked what I have to read! 

At least 12 innocent human beings have been murdered!

[Free Northman Reborn]

8 minutes ago, Arakan said:

FNR, to talk about "iron fists" is always easy but, pray tell, what should "Europeans" in your opinion do? Protest against what? 

If you are referring to the mass immigration of Muslim "refugees" (someone from North Africa except Lybia or from Pakistan is not a refugee), this is already happening. But what else do you expect "us" to do. Please don't speak in general terms like for example the rightwing populist parties do but get specific. 

Ok. Sorry. Probably more appropriate for a seperate thread.

 

[Week]

2 minutes ago, Arakan said:

The last sentence is so vile. Pray tell me, what has this "incident" to do with whatever you write there? Shame! So the victims on the Berlin Christmas market have been murdered in "response to the violence perpetrated against Muslims at home and abroad"? 

I should have prefaced this with - the jury is still out on this tragic attack. The statement remains true for many others from an American-centric view of 'The West'.

My response was directly to the 'iron fist' comment which is the exact rhetoric that I'm talking about. Escalating a West v Islam (newsflash, Muslims have always been living in the West) is problematic.

[Arakan]

8 minutes ago, Week said:

I should have prefaced this with - the jury is still out on this tragic attack. The statement remains true for many others from an American-centric view of 'The West'.

My response was directly to the 'iron fist' comment which is the exact rhetoric that I'm talking about. Escalating a West v Islam (newsflash, Muslims have always been living in the West) is problematic.

Stop generalizing! With that sentence you created exactly the same simplistic world view you "criticize"! And furthermore: nothing justifies murdering innocent civilians, be it in Germany, France, USA or Turkey! 

The logic you use is exactly the SAME logic which radical Islamic terrorists are using to justify their actions!

[Week]

3 minutes ago, Arakan said:

Stop generalizing! With that sentence you created exactly the same simplistic world view you "criticize"! And furthermore: nothing justifies murdering innocent civilians, be it in Germany, France, USA or Turkey! 

The logic you use is exactly the SAME logic which radical Islamic terrorists are using to justify their actions!

Ok friend, I did no such thing. Your logic and mine are not aligned.

I'm sorry that there was a tragic attack on your countrymen - I wish the best for the families.

[Arakan]

2 minutes ago, Week said:

Ok friend, I did no such thing. Your logic and mine are not aligned.

I'm sorry that there was a tragic attack on your countrymen - I wish the best for the families.

Mate, it's ok but what do you expect to be the answer in a thread dedicated to such a horrible terrorist attack when you write a sentence like this: 

"Many of these incidents are clear responses to the violence and rhetoric of the West perpetrated against Muslims at home and abroad."

But as I said, it's ok mate. Words can get lost in translation so to speak. 

[TheKitttenGuard]

52 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

This European notion of showing how terrorism will not impact their lives, by public displays of "normality" boggles the mind.

Basically, it just takes pressure off the government, who can then rely on public pressure on citizens to show how "resilient" they are by essentially pretending that terrorism does not touch them. In the end it just costs more lives as more terror attacks can be expected due to government inaction.

If instead people reacted with outrage, with mass protests to declare that this shit is not normal and is totally unacceptable in Europe, maybe the government will be forced to tighten up, lock their borders and generally grow a spine to deal with the issue forcefully and mercillessly. Until European citizens cross that Rubicon, their proud displays of polite bravery will just invite more of the same down the line.

Tolerance and good wishes ain't gonna make this problem go away folks. An iron fist is what's needed instead.

You seem awfully forgetful of the reaction after 9/11.

President Bush himself encourage Americans to shop to show that we will not be terrorized, and change our way of life.

"If we... or the terrorists win" was used constantly to show that the terrorist will not affect us.

You can have problem with this thinking but it is far from a "European" thing.

[Dr. Pepper]

47 minutes ago, Week said:

With respect to what happened in Turkey ... an iron fist will come back to haunt you just the same. Many of these incidents are clear responses to the violence and rhetoric of the West perpetrated against Muslims at home and abroad.

Yes.  You can't terrorize a people and a region for decades and not expect reprisals.  

[Arakan]

Just now, Dr. Pepper said:

Yes.  You can't terrorize a people and a region for decades and not expect reprisals.  

I get it. The 12 people (as of now) smashed to death and murdered at the Berlin Christmas market had it coming...digusting. 

If you don't think so: what have such generalizing statements to do IN A THREAD DEDICATED TO THE BERLIN TERROR ATTACK? 

Otherwise, what has Germany and the Berliners done that they should have "expect reprisals"? 

Honestly, statements like this and that of Week right now feels like spitting in the faces of the dead and injured victims. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

8 minutes ago, Arakan said:

I get it. The 12 people (as of now) smashed to death and murdered at the Berlin Christmas market had it coming...digusting. 

If you don't think so: what have such generalizing statements to do IN A THREAD DEDICATED TO THE BERLIN TERROR ATTACK? 

Otherwise, what has Germany and the Berliners done that they should have "expect reprisals"? 

Honestly, statements like this and that of Week right now feels like spitting in the faces of the dead and injured victims. 

Is that what Dr. P said?  

[Dr. Pepper]

6 minutes ago, Arakan said:

I get it. The 12 people (as of now) smashed to death and murdered at the Berlin Christmas market had it coming...digusting. 

If you don't think so: what have such generalizing statements to do IN A THREAD DEDICATED TO THE BERLIN TERROR ATTACK? 

Otherwise, what has Germany and the Berliners done that they should have "expect reprisals"? 

Honestly, statements like this and that of Week right now feels like spitting in the faces of the dead and injured victims. 

Oh get over yourself.  Sorry 12 people were killed.  I also happen to be sorry that hundreds of thousands have been terrorized by the west as well.  You ignoring all those others who face terror attacks every single day is what is spitting in the faces of the dead and injured.  

[Luzifer's right hand]

1 hour ago, Arakan said:

As my original comment was deleted, again my answer. Your comment regarding the competence/incompetence of the "German" police is inappropriate. 

1) they are using twitter reasonable so far

2) there is no "German police" as such except the Bundespolizei and they are not in charge 

3) your original statement is very disrespectful towards the police which as of now are doing...standard police work  

the part in the brackets was not in your statement when I first quoted you. 

 On point 1 I disagree with you. When it come to point 2 to me it feels like as if at least the PR people in the different police organizations tend to have the same approach/training which is to portray things overly optimistic. If it makes you happier, proud Bavarian that you seem to be, I will add that the local police tends to do the same thing(I even know one local case where the person doing the interview either lied or was not adequately briefed and spread complete and utter misinformation).

3. Indeed I edited by my post because I did not want to be disrespectful to the police doing the work on the ground.

[Arakan]

Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Is that what Dr. P said?  

Please stop your standard "I ask a question but actually don't offer own insight or opinion" game, Scot. I am German, I have Family in Berlin, and I am shocked about what happened. At this moment I just feel for the murdered victims. 

Lazy generalizations like Week and that other user made have NOTHING to do in a thread dedicated to this horrible attack. They are not only impious but disgusting. All IMO of course. And with that I am out of this thread. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 minute ago, Arakan said:

Please stop your standard "I ask a question but actually don't offer own insight or opinion" game, Scot. I am German, I have Family in Berlin, and I am shocked about what happened. At this moment I just feel for the murdered victims. 

Lazy generalizations like Week and that other user made have NOTHING to do in a thread dedicated to this horrible attack. They are not only impious but disgusting. All IMO of course. And with that I am out of this thread. 

What she said isn't that these people deserved to die.  They didn't.  She saying the actions of the West have created the anger that underlies this unjustifiable attack.  

It is not apology or justification to talk about why people are doing what they do.

[Arakan]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Oh get over yourself.  Sorry 12 people were killed.  I also happen to be sorry that hundreds of thousands have been terrorized by the west as well.  You ignoring all those others who face terror attacks every single day is what is spitting in the faces of the dead and injured.  

without words...impious beyond the border. 

WHO THE FUCK HAS GERMANY KILLED? WHO? 

Did Germany start a war? Did Germany start to bomb another country (except Serbia 1999)? Spare me your "the West yadayada". 

Bye I am out. 

[Week]

The thread started with this - 

17 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

I've been worried for a very long time that terrorists would work out how much damage you can do with a vehicle, which doesn 't get you flagged. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38373867

The thread didn't begin with parameters of what should or should not be discussed. Few are. If mods would like to direct the thread in a certain way, then I'll follow accordingly.

I'm surprised at the anger at Dr. P and myself and yet no concern over the appropriateness of the 'iron fist' post which initially elicited my comment.