US Politics: Papers, Please

[The guy from the Vale]

2 minutes ago, The Killer Snark said:

At least you've recognised the existence of his prior revolutions. Many people don't, and it's in order to distance themselves from recognition that one has been conducted in America ever since the election, though the current one is rooted in desperation and will ultimately fail.

I'd say, if Trump, elected on a clear popular minority, proceeds rigging the US' electoral system further, the US risks sliding into the same kind of authoritarian kleptocracy Soros spent money against in Ukraine and Georgia, and hence the resistance to his anti-democratic, unconstitutional policies is actually justified. Again, I have no problem with Soros supporting democracy all over the world. In fact, I applaud him for at least doing some good with the money he earned, even if I don't like the way he earned it.

[Chaircat Meow]

Reading the previous posts I now understand that I don't actually know what the alt-right is, or who the leading figures are. I have no real idea of what 4chan is. Wiki suggests their beliefs are a mix of paleo-conservative positions and what I think of as neo-Nazism.

Q, is Pat Buchanan alt-right?

[Swordfish]

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

To accept that 56 bomb threats in a single month is not normal?

I haven't looked at the data yet.

 

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Look, I'm not trying to talk past you, but it's frustrating when you dig in on an issue. As to the comment about the Mosques, it was a post that I made in about 5 seconds. Would you have been happier if I had written "Two Mosques in Texas burned down recently. I wonder if they'll look into possible hate crimes?" 

 

I get that it was a post you made in about 5 seconds.  You could have simply acknowledged that the post was inaccurate and all of this could have been avoided.  I'm not the only one who dug in here.  Your post was the message board equivalent of a fake headline.  It's a pet peave of mine.

 

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And fail.blog is a funny Youtube channel. Check it out sometime.

Cool.  I'll check it out......

[The Killer Snark]

8 minutes ago, Chaircat Meow said:

Reading the previous posts I now understand that I don't actually know what the alt-right is, or who the leading figures are. I have no real idea of what 4chan is. Wiki suggests their beliefs are a mix of paleo-conservative positions and what I think of as neo-Nazism.

Q, is Pat Buchanan alt-right?

They are fetishists of cartoon frogs, but many non Alt Righters use the frogs ironically. Hope that has cleared things up.

[Zorral]

Not a revolution.  A coup d'etat.

 

[MerenthaClone]

2 minutes ago, The Killer Snark said:

I don't like the Alt Right either, but they've been lumped in with a 4chan crowd that is mostly made up of anti SJW trolls who like to run parody accounts on Twitter. The guy who spammed them with interracial porn is Sargon of Akkad. He's someone I have immense respect for. I've heard a number of the Left describe him as an Alt Righter also. He is actually centre-left.

You're insane, mate.  He describes himself as "classically liberal" (ie, not leftist at all) he has repeatedly supported Trump, albeit mostly because of his general refusal to be "politically correct" ie not an asshole for no reason. He's an active pseudo-MRA who is convinced that the entire world is some bizarre feminist conspiracy and bills himself as a rationalist while refusing to actually engage with critics or data.  He was heavily involved with gamergate, massively supported Aurini's Sarkeesian Effect project, and generally has no intellectual rigor or classifications whatsoever.  His research is essentially looking up wikipedia articles, skimming the first 30 seconds of whatever he's discussing, and talking down to whatever video he's "refuting" as if they actually could respond.  His criticism mostly extends to saying "its stupid" or "its wrong" without any actual reason behind it as if it was self-evident to everyone involved (and since his fanbase consists of a massive circlejerk it probably is) and the man has no education whatsoever, as much as he thinks a british accent covers for that.  He makes occasionally anti-religious arguments, but much like Dawkins, usually fucks it all up by actually just being shitty towards Muslims.  But, really, his most defining characteristic when it comes to his social is his general hatred and fear of anything approaching the most milquetoast of feminism.  Petitioning to ban any kind of "social justice" coarse or theory at universities was one thing (all while he claims, repeatedly, that free speech is one of the most important rights we have, the hypocrite), but defending Elliot fucking Rodger because women supposedly created misogyny was another.  

As for his economic policy:  "The only people who are actually oppressed by capitalism are people who either can't work, people who've lost a leg or are morbidly obese or something like that, or people who don't want to work because they're fucking lazy, or people who don't have any other skills because they did gender studies degrees. Believe it or not, everyone else actually does pretty well out of capitalism, y'know, something like a house, a car, holidays, food on the table, entertainment, luxuries."  These are not the words of a "centre-left" person.  While he does occasionally say things like "a system that produces billionaires is not one which should exist" (so he's not a classical liberal either, despite what he claims) he refuses to engage in any way with any claims that institutional racism or sexism or discrimination of any kind should exist.  Economically, if he had to be described as anything, it'd probably be best to lump him in with the brogressive idiocy that basically is ostensibly progressive and in favor of a rising tide lifting all boats, as long as those boats are white and male.  He's someone who has picked phrases that sound good, positions that sound good, and all ones that work to benefit him the most without thinking about anyone else or looking at anything in depth.  And no, extensive, long videos in which he repeatedly covers the same ground don't count as depth. 

He's been defended by the EDL, Breitbart, key MRA members, and the editor of the Daily Stormer.  If you have immense respect for him, then I hope you re-evaluate your life.  

[Einheri]

11 minutes ago, The Killer Snark said:

I don't like the Alt Right either, but they've been lumped in with a 4chan crowd that is mostly made up of anti SJW trolls who like to run parody accounts on Twitter. The guy who spammed them with interracial porn is Sargon of Akkad. He's someone I have immense respect for. I've heard a number of the Left describe him as an Alt Righter also. He is actually centre-left.

Well, I haven't payed that much attention to them tbh, but I seem to recall that the movement grew out of 4chan (probably the infamous /pol/ board), and since then has become a nesting ground for far right conservatives, white nationalists and worse.

Re Sargon, I'll admit that I sometimes watch his videos, and I can't say I don't like the man (even though I don't agree with him on everything), and yes, he definitely strikes me as more of a center-left/social liberal (where I'm at as well though that probably makes me a gundam commie in the eyes of many Americans lol).

[Real Heir of Bear Island]

1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2017/02/03/trump-to-sign-executive-order-calling-for-rollback-of-wall-street-reform/

Well, it's nice that Trump makes big decisions based upon what happens to his "friends".

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=cAKI

And:

http://www.moneyandbanking.com/commentary/2016/12/5/better-capitalized-banks-lend-more-and-lend-better

Now, it looks like somebody is selling conservative bull.

This is my worst fear come true. How can the people buy into this again? I know plenty of people and business who borrow money. It is not impossible, its just a bit harder and you have to jump through more hoops and provide more proof that you are qualified for the loan. This was specifically done to prevent another sub-prime mortgage crisis. These regulations prevent banks from then stripping these bad loans and selling them as securities, further passing the buck along. 

If the stock market was doing poorly, or if the USD wasn't near all time highs compared to GBP and EUR then I'd understand people's willingness to revisit. 

The fact is the American Recovery Act and the bailout of the banks and auto industry worked. IT WORKED BIG LEAGUE! The average American is better off because of it. The only people it hurt are those greedy financial execs who could no longer benefit at the expense of desperate unqualified borrowers. And it didn't even hurt them that much because the chances are their stock portfolios are doing great. 

[MerenthaClone]

1 minute ago, Real Heir of Bear Island said:

The only people it hurt are those greedy financial execs who could no longer benefit at the expense of desperate unqualified borrowers. 

Well yeah, but they're the only people that matter.  

[Altherion]

14 minutes ago, Chaircat Meow said:

Reading the previous posts I now understand that I don't actually know what the alt-right is, or who the leading figures are. I have no real idea of what 4chan is. Wiki suggests their beliefs are a mix of paleo-conservative positions and what I think of as neo-Nazism.

Q, is Pat Buchanan alt-right?

The alt-right is really difficult to define because it includes a very broad spectrum of views -- the literal definition of a right wing alternative to mainstream conservatism is so broad that it would include even Buchanan. I wasn't sure about him, but reading his views on Trump from early 2016, I think that he is:

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In both parties, people are coming to recognize that the interests of transnational corporations collide and conflict with U.S. national interest and the interests of working Americans. What is good for General Motors is not good for America if General Motors is moving production out of the United States. As history shows, free trade is an ideology that is embraced by the intelligentsia of declining nations.  Rising nations — Great Britain before 1850, America from 1860 to 1912, Bismarck’s Germany, postwar Japan, China today — practice economic nationalism.

This is similar to Bannon's point of view and, to the extent that they have a leader at all, Bannon is it (unless you count Trump which is quite a stretch).

[Real Heir of Bear Island]

6 minutes ago, MerenthaClone said:

Well yeah, but they're the only people that matter.  

Its actually very scary how many sheep will be lead to slaughter with a smile on their face. 

[Chaircat Meow]

19 minutes ago, Altherion said:

The alt-right is really difficult to define because it includes a very broad spectrum of views -- the literal definition of a right wing alternative to mainstream conservatism is so broad that it would include even Buchanan. I wasn't sure about him, but reading his views on Trump from early 2016, I think that he is:

This is similar to Bannon's point of view and, to the extent that they have a leader at all, Bannon is it (unless you count Trump which is quite a stretch).

I knew Buchanan supported Trump, and that their views were similar in many ways (Trump's being less developed, obviously) I just didn't know whether the alt-right label applied because Buchanan was the wrong generation/not radical enough/not based online etc. As is often the case with these labels, alt-right seems to refer to different groups. A smaller, more specific one with roots on these websites, and a larger, broader group that really looks like very close to, if not identical with, paleoconservatism, which has been around a long time. Trump seems to have stumbled upon a very primitive form of paleoconservatism without much input from anyone else. I was not sure how far Bannon's views lined up with Buchanan's. Up thread it was suggested they were almost identical.

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Real Heir of Bear Island said:

 

Also, let me beat this horse again. I've beat it several times, but what the hell, one more beating won't hurt.

Financial Crises are extremely damaging. They are not like ordinary recessions. And they are truly harmful for working people. They cause an inordinae amout of pain and misery, which I'm sure Republicans like so they can write stuff like:

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"The only people who are actually oppressed by capitalism are people who either can't work, people who've lost a leg or are morbidly obese or something like that, or people who don't want to work because they're fucking lazy, or people who don't have any other skills because they did gender studies degrees. Believe it or not, everyone else actually does pretty well out of capitalism, y'know, something like a house, a car, holidays, food on the table, entertainment, luxuries."  

Cause you know, according to Republicans, the Great Depression or Recession happened cause lots of people just decided to take a vacation. Or maybe it was because wealthy people didn't feel appreciated enough. Or maybe it was because government programs that benefit minorities did it.

Who in the fuck knows what the Republican theory is.

But, for the rest of us, who believe financial assets are not simply priced by "forward looking rational expectations" and can be mispriced, avoiding financial crises is pretty important.

Also you'd think, that a party that harps about debt so much, would like to avoid future financial crises too. Or maybe they think when the next one comes, they can cut, cut, without causing deflation and shrinkage and ending up looking like what happened in Spain.

[MerenthaClone]

1 minute ago, OldGimletEye said:

Cause you know, according to Republicans, the Great Depression happened cause lots of people just decided to take a vacation. Or maybe it was because wealthy people didn't feel appreciated enough. Or maybe it was because government programs that benefit minorities did it.

Who in the fuck knows what the Republican theory is.

When in doubt, you can usually safely assume that its blaming minorities, the government, or both.  

[Mexal]

2 minutes ago, MerenthaClone said:

When in doubt, you can usually safely assume that its blaming minorities, the government, or both.  

Too much regulation. Repealed stream rule today. Lots more coming.

[Isalie]

1 hour ago, The Killer Snark said:

In Sweden, it is actually a jailable offence to publicly defend Israel.

? Will you expand on this, or is it another youtube thing?

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

25 minutes ago, Chaircat Meow said:

I knew Buchanan supported Trump, and that their views were similar in many ways (Trump's being less developed, obviously) I just didn't know whether the alt-right label applied because Buchanan was the wrong generation/not radical enough/not based online etc. As is often the case with these labels, alt-right seems to refer to different groups. A smaller, more specific one with roots on these websites, and a larger, broader group that really looks like very close to, if not identical with, paleoconservatism, which has been around a long time. Trump seems to have stumbled upon a very primitive form of paleoconservatism without much input from anyone else. I was not sure how far Bannon's views lined up with Buchanan's. Up thread it was suggested they were almost identical.

It's funny you should throw this out here as Pat Buchanan might just be the first politician (outside of actual historical nazis) that I can remember being referred to as a nazi. Not saying he is or isn't.

[MerenthaClone]

17 minutes ago, Mikael said:

? Will you expand on this, or is it another youtube thing?

I've been googling this since I finished my last post about Sargon and I've seen nothing at all, even from very blatant pro-Israel sources, so I'd say its shit, but I'm also very disinclined to trust the source.  

[Red Tiger]

29 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Who in the fuck knows what the Republican theory is.

I hear it's free market fundamentalism.

 

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Red Tiger said:

I hear it's free market fundamentalism.

 

LOL. 

Good one.