NFL Superbowl: Dont Waste My Overtime

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

5 minutes ago, Rockroi said:

Okay, so no .. nobody should trade with the Pats.  

And yet some fish out there will bite. I just hope it's not the Niners.

[sperry]

10 minutes ago, Rockroi said:

Again, this is my theory- because he's got this great upside, you almost have to trade for him.  Sure, he may suck, but you have about a 50% chance that he's good to very good/  As a GM you have to take that.

I do not believe Garoppolo will be as bad as many of the guys who have been playing QB in the NFL in the "Cutler" zone.   

Hey, lets take it easy, take it easy... lets not say anything that could start something... no need to insult anyone here; we're all just having fun... no need to start yelling out fighting words... 

 

 

 

 

 

This is textbook winner's curse. There is one team with any idea of what Garropolo can be. That is the team that you have to trade with to get him.

[Week]

9 minutes ago, Rockroi said:

So, this answer is really complicated because I believe that over the last 15 years the Pats have done great in trades; also, the Pats rarely let a guy go who has extreme upside and I don't think I have ever seen a player "come back to haunt" the Pats.  However, the Pats have absolutely traded players or let players go who ended up being very valuable for the team that got them.  Here a re a few examples:

The Patriots really haven't had all that many trades (although that's football I suppose)...looking back over some transaction logs for other examples...

Chandler Jones was certainly better than Jonathan Cooper.

Ryan Mallett ... did not come close to returning the value of the conditional 7th rd pick the patriots got back (and then traded with a 5th round pick to Seattle for a 7th round pick (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devin_Lucien - w/ Pats on a futures contract) and a 4th in 2017.

[Rhom]

16 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

And yet some fish out there will bite. I just hope it's not the Niners.

Exactly.  And we just don't know what Shanny the Younger and Lynch will do.

If it was still Baalke, I'd know to keep an eye out for a CB/WR/RB with an ACL tear in the 2nd or 3rd round.   

[Kalbear]

16 minutes ago, Week said:

The Patriots really haven't had all that many trades (although that's football I suppose)...looking back over some transaction logs for other examples...

Don't look at just trades, look at FA calls. Trades don't happen much as a rule. It's the FAs that they let go that aren't particularly good for other teams.

Branch is a good example - he was fine as a receiver for the Seahawks, but not remotely worth a 1st round pick, and they let him go for something like a 4th round pick later after a bunch of meh seasons. Their UDFA receivers performed far better for them in the same period of time. 

And Branch is probably the best overall result, perhaps only Samuel is better. 

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

17 minutes ago, Week said:

Chandler Jones was certainly better than Jonathan Cooper.

But that was one of those deals where Jones was having some off the field problems. One of the few instances where the Hoodie wasn't trading from a position of power.

[Rockroi]

20 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Don't look at just trades, look at FA calls. Trades don't happen much as a rule. It's the FAs that they let go that aren't particularly good for other teams.

Branch is a good example - he was fine as a receiver for the Seahawks, but not remotely worth a 1st round pick, and they let him go for something like a 4th round pick later after a bunch of meh seasons. Their UDFA receivers performed far better for them in the same period of time. 

And Branch is probably the best overall result, perhaps only Samuel is better. 

Exactly- its not just trades by the day-in, day-out evaluations of Free Agents.  

Look at Revis.  Maybe a less savvy team would have signed Revis to a five-year, $70 million deal with $39 million fully guaranteed after one successful season with the the Pats?  And that team was the Jets.  How'd that work out for them?  

 

[Jace, Extat]

 

I find this community's lack of faith disturbing.

 

 

 

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

4 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

I find this community's lack of faith disturbing.

Ah yes, the Westeros NFL thread: You will never find a deeper hive of shit-talking and skepticism regarding your team's QB. Proceed with caution.

[JonSnow4President]

Hey, it's the real Colts fan. I don't have to pretend a dirty stinking Washington fan is one of you anymore. 

[l2 0 5 5]

A couple days late on the TO HoF stuff... Some simple thoughts:

Receiving yards: 15,934

- Only Jerry Rice has more

Receptions: 1,078

- 1 of 14 members in the 1k catch club

Touchdowns: 153

- Only Randy Moss (156) and Jerry Rice (197) have more

 

Everyone is citing the bad teammate stuff and yeah, he comes off as a shithead. The thing is, his numbers are insane. If they were pretty good/above average, I'd get the HoF denial, but his numbers are top tier in the receiving category all-time. The guy needs to be in the HoF.

[JonSnow4President]

15 minutes ago, l2 0 5 5 said:

A couple days late on the TO HoF stuff... Some simple thoughts:

Receiving yards: 15,934

- Only Jerry Rice has more

Receptions: 1,078

- 1 of 14 members in the 1k catch club

Touchdowns: 153

- Only Randy Moss (156) and Jerry Rice (197) have more

 

Everyone is citing the bad teammate stuff and yeah, he comes off as a shithead. The thing is, his numbers are insane. If they were pretty good/above average, I'd get the HoF denial, but his numbers are top tier in the receiving category all-time. The guy needs to be in the HoF.

From what I hear (I'm too young and started watching too late), a lot of it is blown out of proportion, especially when compared to another team cancer uber number receiver included in your post above. 

[l2 0 5 5]

1 minute ago, JonSnow4President said:

From what I hear (I'm too young and started watching too late), a lot of it is blown out of proportion, especially when compared to another team cancer uber number receiver included in your post above. 

You're gonna have to translate this to english.

[Jace, Extat]

52 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Ah yes, the Westeros NFL thread: You will never find a deeper hive of shit-talking and skepticism regarding your team's QB. Proceed with caution.

As you wish.

26 minutes ago, JonSnow4President said:

Hey, it's the real Colts fan. I don't have to pretend a dirty stinking Washington fan is one of you anymore. 

Eh, can't get too jazzed about the NFL these days. The loss to the Texans really took a lot out of me, though there was some excitement over the superbowl. 

Anyways, I think Andrew Luck will never be as good as 2 years ago or even this year. He had shoulder surgery for an undisclosed injury, though given the timeline to recovery (full go in training camp) I'd be willing to bet on labrum repair. If not that, then it would be rotator cuff which has the same broad strokes recovery time as labrum repair but I don't think any responsible doctor would tell Irsay that Luck would be a sure thing in 6 months. 

Either way, he's fucked. Some of you may remember that when reports first surfaced after his injury vs Tennessee early in the season may be a labrum tear I went on a sad and angry rant. I won't repeat myself, but if he had labrum surgery then the end of his effective career has begun. He'll still be able to throw, even at the same velocity for a few years, but by the end of his current contract he'll be a shell of the monstrous armed cave troll we all grew to love in 2012. The good news is that by then this Chris Ballard character may have assembled a team that doesn't require him to throw 40 times a game. But we'll quickly see that asking him to throw 30 times is a pass too far. 

We'll always have vs Kansas City, I suppose. 

[JonSnow4President]

3 minutes ago, l2 0 5 5 said:

You're gonna have to translate this to english.

Sorry.  From what I read, a lot of TO's "team cancer" actions are overblown or entirely made up. He certainly wasn't Larry Fitzgerald in terms of a team player, but he was nowhere near as bad as he is made out to be.  If you compare him to Randy Moss, Moss has far more of a case as a team cancer, with a huge reputation for quitting on games when down and not giving full effort. Yet TO has the bigger reputation for it.  TO should be in the hall of fame. End of story.

Now, I'm too young to have watched him, so I can't speak to anything besides taking the opinion of a guy I read who was covering the NFL at the time.  

 

[DanteGabriel]

2 hours ago, JonSnow4President said:

Sorry.  From what I read, a lot of TO's "team cancer" actions are overblown or entirely made up. He certainly wasn't Larry Fitzgerald in terms of a team player, but he was nowhere near as bad as he is made out to be.  If you compare him to Randy Moss, Moss has far more of a case as a team cancer, with a huge reputation for quitting on games when down and not giving full effort. Yet TO has the bigger reputation for it.  TO should be in the hall of fame. End of story.

Now, I'm too young to have watched him, so I can't speak to anything besides taking the opinion of a guy I read who was covering the NFL at the time.  

 

Pro Football Talk has been trying to fight the TO misinformation campaign. Look, he was a dick. He created headaches for his teams. But people are saying that teams couldn't wait to get rid of him, no one wanted to extend his contract, even though he played 8 years for the Niners and the Cowboys also wanted to extend him.

The numbers alone should sell it. His performance on a broken leg in the Super Bowl was amazing. It's stupidity to keep TO out while Terrell "Three Year Wonder on Crooked Contracts" Davis got in. I guess if Terrell Davis is a Hall of Fame player, then Gronk has already punched his ticket, even if he never plays another game.

[l2 0 5 5]

Agreed, DG. The numbers make it plain as day the guy belongs in the shrine. No question at all. It seems to me that the voters for HoF try to pull off these shit moves from time to time when a guy has a questionable personality, or did some shady off-field stuff. Almost like they wanna stick it to the bully in high school that picked on them. Guys like Darren Sharper are one thing (though I personally think he should be in HoF due to his skill on the field and career stats), but you're really gonna pick on TO cause he acted like a baby sometimes? Get over it.

[Jaime L]

2 hours ago, JonSnow4President said:

Sorry.  From what I read, a lot of TO's "team cancer" actions are overblown or entirely made up. He certainly wasn't Larry Fitzgerald in terms of a team player, but he was nowhere near as bad as he is made out to be.  If you compare him to Randy Moss, Moss has far more of a case as a team cancer, with a huge reputation for quitting on games when down and not giving full effort. Yet TO has the bigger reputation for it.  TO should be in the hall of fame. End of story.

Now, I'm too young to have watched him, so I can't speak to anything besides taking the opinion of a guy I read who was covering the NFL at the time.  

 

1 hour ago, DanteGabriel said:

Pro Football Talk has been trying to fight the TO misinformation campaign. Look, he was a dick. He created headaches for his team's. But people are saying that team's couldn't wait to get rid of him, no one wanted to extend his contract, even though he played 8 years for the Niners and the Cowboys also wanted to extend him.

The numbers alone should sell it. His performance on a broken leg in the Super Bowl was amazing. It's stupidity to keep TO out while Terrell "Three Year Wonder on Crooked Contracts" Davis got in. I guess if Terrell Davis is a Hall of Fame player, then Gronk has already punched his ticket, even if he never plays another game.

I saw that PFT piece but need to say I think it's very arguable that Moss was a bigger cancer than TO. TO turned on every QB he played with except arguably Romo. Even Probowl guys like Garcia and McNabb. When he became dissatisfied with his situation he fucking tore the team he was on to shreds, including an Eagles team one year removed from making the Superbowl. 

Sure he always played hard whereas Moss didn't. But Moss was capable of heights that TO wasn't. His 1998 and 2007 seasons were the most supernatural things I'd ever seen from a WR. It's a fucking shame Moss didn't care more because he could've been the greatest ever. I'll always remember watching Moss play whereas TO will be largely indistinguishable from Andre Johnson or Dez Bryant or a bunch of other WRs built the same way. 

This is a long way of saying I have no problem Moss getting in ahead of TO. But, yes, he clearly deserves to get in too. 

[DanteGabriel]

1 hour ago, Jaime L said:

 

I saw that PFT piece but need to say I think it's very arguable that Moss was a bigger cancer than TO. TO turned on every QB he played with except arguably Romo. Even Probowl guys like Garcia and McNabb. When he became dissatisfied with his situation he fucking tore the team he was on to shreds, including an Eagles team one year removed from making the Superbowl. 

Sure he always played hard whereas Moss didn't. But Moss was capable of heights that TO wasn't. His 1998 and 2007 seasons were the most supernatural things I'd ever seen from a WR. It's a fucking shame Moss didn't care more because he could've been the greatest ever. I'll always remember watching Moss play whereas TO will be largely indistinguishable from Andre Johnson or Dez Bryant or a bunch of other WRs built the same way. 

This is a long way of saying I have no problem Moss getting in ahead of TO. But, yes, he clearly deserves to get in too. 

I am more or less on board with all of this. TO was a special brand of self-destructive crazy/needy. He should be criticized for attacking his quarterbacks, and I don't really have words for his driveway workout session. But he also got way too much shit for some innocuous stuff. The Sharpie and the pom-poms were fun. I thought the Cowboys star was good high drama. And oh my fuck, the outrage over his promo with Nicolette Sheridan was ridiculous.

I probably remember him more distinctly than you because of my Niners affection. I still remember his game-winning catch against the Packers in the playoffs in his rookie year, where he'd dropped everything else that day, but Young came back to him at the end and he held on to it despite taking as hard a sandwich hit as I've ever seen a receiver take.

But no question Moss was more memorable. He was a singular presence. My God, the thrill of watching him as a home fan in 2007!  And I think it was all the more thrilling because you knew it wouldn't last, and he'd get in his own way eventually. Not even Odell Beckham or Julio Jones provoke the kind of electricity that Randy Moss did. There's a particular twang I get in my voice when I say his name, and I don't think I do it for any other player. Randy Moss!

They both deserve pretty automatic Hall inclusion. I think there is a line to be drawn on character to some degree. I don't think Darren Sharper had a Hall worthy career, but even if he'd had Ronnie Lott's career, I couldn't see supporting him with what he'd done. I certainly don't think TO or Moss had serious enough character issues to cloud their clear worthiness. (Meanwhile I think Curt Schilling has a Hall worthy career but fuck him.)

[sperry]

TO and Moss are both hall of famers. Both were pain in the asses, and they'll get dinged for not winning championships, but it wasn't thier fault. In particular, TO's playoff run on a broken leg the year the Eagles made it to the super bowl was unreal.  TO deserves to get in based on what he's done. He might not becuase the media doesn't like him.

 

Meanwhile Marvin Harrison was having peopled murdered and got in.