US politics: Donny, you're out of your element

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Rorshach said:

Those guys are now arguing that "we need to look at the satelite data". So no.

I am not sure what you mean here. So it wasn't stupid to try to draw a straight line from about 1998 to about 2012, and then argue "see global warming isn't happening!"

[DMC]

14 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Oh hey, look, here's Trump's plans on immigration. Basically anyone other than DACA is a target, local police can be deputized and used, anyone put into any police database can be held indefinitely, there will be random camps near the border to hold people indefinitely, and it's pretty much precisely what I said it would be under Trump when asked 'how can he do this without more money'. 

Obviously no one should be surprised Trump is going to use as much unilateral and executive action as possible to effect change on immigration policy considering that was the bedrock of his campaign.  What I attempted to point out was that while deportations are obviously going to increase, any sweeping change - e.g. building the wall or deporting 2-3 million undocumenteds in, say, a year rather than the two terms it took Obama to deport 2.5 million - would require funding from Congress.  And that even goes for aspects of the DHS memos:

Quote

That includes setting the groundwork for Mr. Trump’s border wall, maintaining more detention beds to hold illegal immigrants, adding 5,000 agents to the Border Patrol, adding 10,000 agents to ICE — the tripling of the “deportation force” that Mr. Trump promised during the campaign — and hiring 500 more officers for the air and Marine operations at Customs and Border Protection.

Funding for those moves will depend on Congress.

Link.  Moreover, the larger point was Trump would encounter significant difficulty navigating the legislative arena in spite of enjoying unified government.  How's his legislative agenda looking thus far?  At this point in Obama's first year he had already signed the stimulus bill into law five days ago.

[LongRider]

Just now, OldGimletEye said:

I am not sure what you mean here. So it wasn't stupid to try to draw a straight line from about 1998 to about 2012, and then argue "see global warming isn't happening!"

I thought one of the big arguments now is along the lines of, 'Yeah, ok, so maybe it's happening, but it's not caused by humans and humans can't do anything about it so shut up already.'

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Nasty LongRider said:

I thought one of the big arguments now is along the lines of, 'Yeah, ok, so maybe it's happening, but it's not caused by humans and humans can't do anything about it so shut up already.'

Yep, that is an argument they often do make, among others.

[LongRider]

11 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

  Quote

That includes setting the groundwork for Mr. Trump’s border wall, maintaining more detention beds to hold illegal immigrants, adding 5,000 agents to the Border Patrol, adding 10,000 agents to ICE — the tripling of the “deportation force” that Mr. Trump promised during the campaign — and hiring 500 more officers for the air and Marine operations at Customs and Border Protection.

Funding for those moves will depend on Congress.

Perhaps if Trump framed this as an American jobs program he could get Congress to move his way?  He did after all, promise more jobs.    

[Fez]

1 hour ago, Relic said:

One of the problems with 90% of the world's population believing in an afterlife is their ability to  shrug things like this off completely. 

I think a bigger issue is that due some quirk of the planet's climate, the US will be one of the last places to suffer the worst effects of global warming; which makes it much easier to ignore until its way too late. Sure we're already having freakishly warm weather be the new norm, and "storms of the century" happening regularly, but we're not dealing with issues like the famines already sweeping west Africa.

[Fragile Bird]

3 hours ago, maarsen said:

I listened to the same show last night. My thoughts were is it not considered an act of war for a government agent to intentionally  shoot and kill someone across an international boundary? Either way a horrible incident and I hope it is resolved properly.

 

2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

It's just far too easy for people to see killing another person as being a right and proper action. Whether it's hate, fear or something else that motivates action that leads to fatality, killing just seems to come far too easy to too many people for my liking.

I suspect that it's the same situation as with police officers. The police (irrespective of the colour of the officer) can shoot and kill pretty well anyone without consequences. There may be an exception if the officer is a woman - look at the criticism the woman officer who killed someone during the election campaign faced, even Trump made comments about her. Though in the end I don't know if she was treated any differently from male officers.

And thousands more border agents are going to be hired, likely very quickly with likely less vetting than normal. I assume there will be more stories about brutality in the future.

 

[aceluby]

10 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

 

I suspect that it's the same situation as with police officers. The police (irrespective of the colour of the officer) can shoot and kill pretty well anyone without consequences. There may be an exception if the officer is a woman - look at the criticism the woman officer who killed someone during the election campaign faced, even Trump made comments about her. Though in the end I don't know if she was treated any differently from male officers.

And thousands more border agents are going to be hired, likely very quickly with likely less vetting than normal. I assume there will be more stories about brutality in the future.

 

Just heard on NPR this morning that border control already has issues with not being able to find competent people to fill the positions they currently have.  The guy went on record that having a mass hiring of 5,000 people in a short time period (< 2 years) would likely make us less safe due to not having good candidates able to fill the rolls.

[Rorshach]

1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said:

I am not sure what you mean here. So it wasn't stupid to try to draw a straight line from about 1998 to about 2012, and then argue "see global warming isn't happening!"

Of course it was. However, having followed that debate for years, one knew that that particular talking point would be abandoned the minute the short time trend disappeared. Last year. Until 2014, the talk was about "the hiatus". 

Now, since the temperatures of 2015 and 2016 (surface) are new records - consecutive years - the trend is upwards and "the hiatus" is gone from surface temperatures. Which means a new talking point has to come along, and when we talk temperature, that one is "we need to look at the satelite data". Whenever that starts to rise to fast, something new will have to be invented. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Fez]

Trump's somehow already managed to make DeVos seem reasonable.

 

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Fez said:

I think a bigger issue is that due some quirk of the planet's climate, the US will be one of the last places to suffer the worst effects of global warming; which makes it much easier to ignore until its way too late. Sure we're already having freakishly warm weather be the new norm, and "storms of the century" happening regularly, but we're not dealing with issues like the famines already sweeping west Africa.

A lot of the causes of famine are due to distribution failure.

However --

Do you have any idea of how of our food the US imports?  Have you noticed when California and Mexico have bad weather how much the quality of produce falls and the price goes up?  Have you noticed when the midwest is in drought how the price of meat goes way up? Or when there's drought in Brasil, from which we import enormous amounts of beef (the US producers alone can't keep up with the demand for burgers here).  Here in the northeast during droughts the price of milk and all dairy products that are local go up -- and so do all the imported ones -- because feeding the dairy herds gets too expensive for the farmers and they go out of business. Have you also noticed how much of our national food supply depends on the labor of immigrants?

Have you noticed how much of our water supply -- and the world's water supplies -- are now owned by corporations?

Unless you actually shop for food and actually cook meals on a regular basis maybe you haven't noticed.

[OldGimletEye]

59 minutes ago, Rorshach said:

Of course it was. However, having followed that debate for years, one knew that that particular talking point would be abandoned the minute the short time trend disappeared. Last year. Until 2014, the talk was about "the hiatus". 

Now, since the temperatures of 2015 and 2016 (surface) are new records - consecutive years - the trend is upwards and "the hiatus" is gone from surface temperatures. Which means a new talking point has to come along, and when we talk temperature, that one is "we need to look at the satelite data". Whenever that starts to rise to fast, something new will have to be invented. We'll just have to wait and see.

Got ya. Thanks for clarifying. 

It seems part of the conservative strategy here is to fire out bullshit at the rapid rate, making it difficult to rebut it all.

[Fez]

14 minutes ago, Zorral said:

A lot of the causes of famine are due to distribution failure.

However --

Do you have any idea of how of our food the US imports?  Have you noticed when California and Mexico have bad weather how much the quality of produce falls and the price goes up?  Have you noticed when the midwest is in drought how the price of meat goes way up? Or when there's drought in Brasil, from which we import enormous amounts of beef (the US producers alone can't keep up with the demand for burgers here).  Here in the northeast during droughts the price of milk and all dairy products that are local go up -- and so do all the imported ones -- because feeding the dairy herds gets too expensive for the farmers and they go out of business. Have you also noticed how much of our national food supply depends on the labor of immigrants?

Have you noticed how much of our water supply -- and the world's water supplies -- are now owned by corporations?

Unless you actually shop for food and actually cook meals on a regular basis maybe you haven't noticed.

Not saying everything is peachy in the US; but it is and will be far easier to adjust to here than what a lot of world faces. At least for a while. And that's the problem. The US is sheltered in the short term from the worst effects of a problem that we need to be addressing.

Higher food prices are an issue, and will continue to be, and food security will be a growing issue for the poor. But it'll be a while before the middle class, and policy makers, who are almost all wealthier than that, begin to really feel the pinch. I have noticed prices go up, but not by an amount that actually affects my purchasing choices. And I acknowledge I'm better off than many, but the people who matter in this debate are far better off than I am.

Flooding and storm damage will continue to rise, but no parts of the country are going to become unlivable (at least not in the next 100 years) the way some places elsewhere will be.

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Fez said:

I think a bigger issue is that due some quirk of the planet's climate, the US will be one of the last places to suffer the worst effects of global warming; which makes it much easier to ignore until its way too late. Sure we're already having freakishly warm weather be the new norm, and "storms of the century" happening regularly, but we're not dealing with issues like the famines already sweeping west Africa.

Idk man, I'm really digging this 60 degree Minnesota winter weather....

[aceluby]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Idk man, I'm really digging this 60 degree Minnesota winter weather....

Just wait for the foot of snow this weekend

[Fez]

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Idk man, I'm really digging this 60 degree Minnesota winter weather....

Its been in the 70s here in DC. I went hiking in shorts and a t-short last weekend. In February!

At least Inhofe can't bring a snowball to the senate floor this year as proof that global warming doesn't exist.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

7 minutes ago, aceluby said:

Just wait for the foot of snow this weekend

SHUT UP ACE!

[OldGimletEye]

12 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Idk man, I'm really digging this 60 degree Minnesota winter weather....

 

4 minutes ago, Fez said:

Its been in the 70s here in DC. I went hiking in shorts and a t-short last weekend. In February!

At least Inhofe can't bring a snowball to the senate floor this year as proof that global warming doesn't exist.

I'm a bit of a sweater by nature. Accordingly, I'm not looking forward to all this heat.

At this time, I think I am going to advocate for the Affordable Air Conditioning Act.

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Fez said:

Not saying everything is peachy in the US; but it is and will be far easier to adjust to here than what a lot of world faces. At least for a while. And that's the problem. The US is sheltered in the short term from the worst effects of a problem that we need to be addressing.

Higher food prices are an issue, and will continue to be, and food security will be a growing issue for the poor. But it'll be a while before the middle class, and policy makers, who are almost all wealthier than that, begin to really feel the pinch. I have noticed prices go up, but not by an amount that actually affects my purchasing choices. And I acknowledge I'm better off than many, but the people who matter in this debate are far better off than I am.

Flooding and storm damage will continue to rise, but no parts of the country are going to become unlivable (at least not in the next 100 years) the way some places elsewhere will be.

 

Climate change, with shorter and warmer winters also affect the bacteria and insect populations, the ones that infect us with deadly diseases and eat our food.  For example, long, freezing winters kills the mosquito larvae -- the same mosquitos that bring malaria and other diseases.  We don't seem to realize how quickly an epidemic can disrupt EVERYTHING.  Put some wide-killing disease running rampant -- globally -- along with drought and flood and think of the disruptions everywhere of food supply, not to mention safe drinking water.

I wouldn't put any bets on the US being shielded from any of this in any damn year including this one, particularly at the rate in which the rainforest habitats are being destroyed and replaced with people, whether in luxury condos or palm oil plantations.  These habitats harbor bacteria and viruses in vectors that are facing fewer and fewer barriers between them and the human population.

The first law is that everything is interconnected.

[Crazydog7]

8 hours ago, Einheri said:

IThat said, I can’t help but think that the we on the left would normally have been more sympathetic/less harsh towards a person – even if we have to take a hard stand against his statements – if that person was someone who taken advantage of sexually back when he was still in his early teens, and who now might be trying to normalize his past experiences as a form of coping mechanism, but we  are now making an exception because it’s the hated Milo Yiannopoulos.

 

I think there is a certain wide degree of self righteous smugness whenever one of the Alt Right’s professional provocateurs goes down.  Yes it couldn’t happen to a nicer SOB but I can’t help but feel a certain degree of sympathy towards Milo all those years before I joined the support group I probably would have said also “I was not abused” physiologically I had to do that in order to survive.  With some help and treatment I began to understand this way of thinking for what it was the mental gymnastics of a traumatized child.  I can only hope Milo comes to the same realization. 

I got hope they brief the next self hating Fag they find to be a poster boy.  This all misses the wider point the entire affair will not even slow breitbart down.