Manhole Eunuchsbane

Weinstein/Hollywood Sex Scandal Continues To Produce Headlines

398 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, Robin Of House Hill said:

And the concept of comparing the levels of sexual misconduct as a purely statistical thing, has no bearing on the amount of harm does to each of the victims.

Yeah, I agree that numbers/percentages/statistics in regards to this particular topic can be problematic. That said, I don't think they should be ignored or that someone should be ridiculed for citing them.

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3 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

I reckon a large part of being a successful advocate is being a good listener.  It's hard to refute a point unless you understand it.  

And separately, *hugs* to you as well.  

I can't disagree with that. One thing I wanted to ask, do you have any advice for what a man should do when a female friend confides in them about serious sexual assault or rape? Because this has happened to me, and I really didn't know what to say, I offered to assault the guy, but I know that was dumb.

Thanks, but it really isn't something that I feel effects me, only when people are dismissive of male victims. When I think about this issue, I'm not thinking about myself, I'm thinking of things I know that have happened to women that are very close to me. And I think that's what has really got me defensive in this thread- maybe I have been overly academic, too quick to reply, whatever. But this implication that I don't care, that I actively want to discourage progress on this issue? To me, that's one hell of an accusation.

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4 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Yeah that one surprises me 0 percent. That dude is fucking scum.

Yeah, Sizemore is a piece of work, no doubt. Still, 11? Jesus. 

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1 hour ago, Eggegg said:

Is it not worth listening to the male experience on this as well however? I mean we all talk about educating men, but I never see anyone asking questions about why some men commit these crimes and some don't or what it is about male sexuality that is a problem. If the assumption is that there is something wrong with men's behaviour in general then maybe asking them about it is worthwhile

Um -- the bolded is untrue, counterfactual, etc.  There are loads of studies and reports about all this, which are easily available with a google, for just one instance.  This is why remarks like this one cause so much trouble here -- because the effort of thinking or checking this premise hasn't been performed.

This video might help extend understanding as to what is going on here.  It's not about sexual harassment, not exactly, but it is about That Word That White People Don't Get To Use, and why some of them push back so damned hard against what should be and is obvious to so many:

https://twitter.com/mattwhitlockPM/status/929031252396662785/video/1

Edited by Zorral

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14 minutes ago, mankytoes said:

I can't disagree with that. One thing I wanted to ask, do you have any advice for what a man should do when a female friend confides in them about serious sexual assault or rape? Because this has happened to me, and I really didn't know what to say, I offered to assault the guy, but I know that was dumb.

Agree - hard conversation to have and harder to not look back and feel like you (collectively -- I've been there as well) could've/should've said something different.

Generally, words of support, understanding, and listening are the most important. Per what I linked before:

Quote

It’s asking the women in your life, “What do you need?” instead of “What should I do?” which seems like just a minute semantic distinction but really isn’t.

It's natural to want to DO SOMETHING -- but that's putting our own feelings ahead of the victim's. Truly, while we may think it is on behalf of the victim -- does more to assuage our own guilt and inability to do anything than it does anything for them.

Would be interested to hear other opinions on this as well.

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21 minutes ago, mankytoes said:

I can't disagree with that. One thing I wanted to ask, do you have any advice for what a man should do when a female friend confides in them about serious sexual assault or rape? Because this has happened to me, and I really didn't know what to say, I offered to assault the guy, but I know that was dumb.

Thanks, but it really isn't something that I feel effects me, only when people are dismissive of male victims. When I think about this issue, I'm not thinking about myself, I'm thinking of things I know that have happened to women that are very close to me. And I think that's what has really got me defensive in this thread- maybe I have been overly academic, too quick to reply, whatever. But this implication that I don't care, that I actively want to discourage progress on this issue? To me, that's one hell of an accusation.

Thanks. I hope no one thinks you don’t care. On your question - to me I think just listening is a huge thing to do. A supportive friend is a wonderful thing. 

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Someone is now trying to explain to me in a chat room about how CK did nothing wrong. I seriously almost flipped my entire computer desk.

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2 hours ago, Kelli Fury said:

And if you are questioning my numbers here, go ahead. But I am a native Ojibwe woman. I am from a demographic of Americans more likely to be raped than anyone else. More likely to be kidnapped than anyone else. More likely to be a missing person than anyone else. More likely to be murdered than anyone else. More likely to have been molested than anyone els. Native women report that 52% of us have been raped, not assaulted. 52% who have been raped and are willing to say so. That 52% includes me. I have been touched without my consent almost once a year every year since I was 11. I am 34. So don’t try to tell me I don’t know because I’m not just the Bill Nye of this, I am Steven fucking Hawking.

I am so sorry.  That is inexcusable. 

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58 minutes ago, Week said:

Agree - hard conversation to have and harder to not look back and feel like you (collectively -- I've been there as well) could've/should've said something different.

Generally, words of support, understanding, and listening are the most important. Per what I linked before:

It's natural to want to DO SOMETHING -- but that's putting our own feelings ahead of the victim's. Truly, while we may think it is on behalf of the victim -- does more to assuage our own guilt and inability to do anything than it does anything for them.

Would be interested to hear other opinions on this as well.

Not just in relation to hearing about someone's sexual assault, but in general, I've learned that when a woman is talking about a problem, she's probably not looking for you to solve it for her. I was pissing off a friend of mine by trying to brainstorm solutions once, probably not letting her complete sentences, and she burst out in frustration, "I don't need you to fix this for me! I just need to vent!"

After that I started to try to modulate my "let's figure out how to fix it" impulse with all my friends and concentrated on listening, expressing support, making myself available. The requests for help sometimes followed.

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3 hours ago, StepStark said:

If you really think that, then you're probably in the wrong species. Because if you're right, that would mean that for thousands and thousands of years and civilization men still didn't learn how to respect women. But that would also mean that great many women also didn't learn how to respect women, because the vast majority of those women-hurting men had mothers and other female influence in their childhood and still grew into women-hurting machines....

Yes, that is one of the currently prominent models of how our societies work. If you want a more academic approach discussing that model look into patriarchy and or kyriarchy.

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1 hour ago, Week said:

Agree - hard conversation to have and harder to not look back and feel like you (collectively -- I've been there as well) could've/should've said something different.

Generally, words of support, understanding, and listening are the most important. Per what I linked before:

It's natural to want to DO SOMETHING -- but that's putting our own feelings ahead of the victim's. Truly, while we may think it is on behalf of the victim -- does more to assuage our own guilt and inability to do anything than it does anything for them.

Would be interested to hear other opinions on this as well.

Thanks. I'm sure probably overthinking as always. My girlfriend says I always try to make problem solve.

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26 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Not just in relation to hearing about someone's sexual assault, but in general, I've learned that when a woman is talking about a problem, she's probably not looking for you to solve it for her. I was pissing off a friend of mine by trying to brainstorm solutions once, probably not letting her complete sentences, and she burst out in frustration, "I don't need you to fix this for me! I just need to vent!"

After that I started to try to modulate my "let's figure out how to fix it" impulse with all my friends and concentrated on listening, expressing support, making myself available. The requests for help sometimes followed.

 

8 minutes ago, mankytoes said:

Thanks. I'm sure probably overthinking as always. My girlfriend says I always try to make problem solve.

100% my MO as well -- gone through the same "what can I do to fix it" for pretty much any issue shared (work, personal, relationship, etc.). My wife has finally retrained me out of that habit. ;)

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15 minutes ago, Week said:

100% my MO as well -- gone through the same "what can I do to fix it" for pretty much any issue shared (work, personal, relationship, etc.). My wife has finally retrained me out of that habit. ;)

Yeah, it took my awhile to learn that trick as well, but if you wan't to stay married (or in a long term relationship even) with a woman, you'd do well to practice that MO. 

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Maybe this is better suited to the Politics thread, but I think it's related...

Fundamentalist Home-Schoolers Believe Grown Men Courting Teen Girls is Natural

 http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2017/11/14/fundamentalist_homeschoolers_are_one_group_of_roy_moore_allies_who_think.html?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

 

/I think this speaks to the point that kairparavel was making upthread about Jerry Lee Lewis and Elvis, and the like. This seems to be mostly a Southern thing.

Edited by Manhole Eunuchsbane

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4 hours ago, StepStark said:

This is rich coming from a moderator who has no problem with other people calling me "idiot" and other names and accusing me of immoral things I never said in any way.

It really isn't, I'm afraid.

Resorting to the 'moderator' thing as a response is reflective of what I already said: tired, cliched, boring. Add 'desperate' to that. If you have been accused of anything unreasonable, I have not seen it. You may believe that people are being unfair to you, but that is not the same thing at all. If you have a problem, report it: another moderator will deal with it. Don't use those problems as an attempt to defend yourself by playing the victim.

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1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, it took my awhile to learn that trick as well, but if you wan't to stay married (or in a long term relationship even) with a woman, you'd do well to practice that MO. 

My therapist would expand that :)  I'm a fixer too.  It doesn't always play well.  I'm working on it.  

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Just now, Mlle. Zabzie said:

My therapist would expand that :)  I'm a fixer too.  It doesn't always play well.  I'm working on it.  

Yeah, I could see that one going both ways. All I know is the women in my life (primarily my wife, daughter and mother) all hate it when I try to do it. Just listen and affirm. That's what they want like 95% of the time. 

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1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, I could see that one going both ways. All I know is the women in my life (primarily my wife, daughter and mother) all hate it when I try to do it. Just listen and affirm. That's what they want like 95% of the time. 

Apparently this is a thing!  And I think when someone is talking about something traumatic or difficult, or otherwise expressing emotion, there isn't a better response.  And this thread has a lot of that, and it's actually good and positive and cathartic :)

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