Sourjapes Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 I don't find him boring but nor particularly interesting. It's true that Ramsay isn't complicated but I do think he's a good villain. He fills me with revulsion and fear. I think he's a much better character in the books than the show because his monstrous nature is both a benefit and a threat to him. Yes, it frightens peasants and prisoners but it also earns him lots of enemies. Enemies who have armies and courts of their own. To me it seems to be an essential part of his character that he will rely on cruelty and fear too much and wind up with his throat cut in his sleep. In terms of him wanting to be accepted as a full member of his family he is also an effective foil for Theon and Jon. Personally, I think he should NOT outlive his father and should probably die early on in the next book. Unless Martin has some more complicated ideas for his character then it seems to me that his role in the story should be reaching its end now. We understand his origins, his motivations, his nature, his goals, and his peril. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 18 minutes ago, Sourjapes said: ersonally, I think he should NOT outlive his father and should probably die early on in the next book. Unless Martin has some more complicated ideas for his character then it seems to me that his role in the story should be reaching its end now. We understand his origins, his motivations, his nature, his goals, and his peril. I really don't think Roose is stupid enough to let him be offed by Ramsey like in the show-odds are if Ramsey is planning a coup, the people surrounding him(Roose's men), have orders to slit the guy's throat in a heart beat the second he lets known his plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kandrax Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 5 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: I really don't think Roose is stupid enough to let him be offed by Ramsey like in the show-odds are if Ramsey is planning a coup, the people surrounding him(Roose's men), have orders to slit the guy's throat in a heart beat the second he lets known his plans. Even if Ramsay kills his father in the winds, i think he would do that when he was enraged by Roose. For example: Roose criticizes him and calls him bastard, and Ramsay loses his mind and kills his father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbieone Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 It'd be hard for me to view unmitigated sadism as interesting, and Ramsay's personality pretty much has nothing else in it, anything else is vestigial and subsumded in it. He knows how to fight and knows the basics of politics/diplomacy/living like a noble, but even in that he's degenerate and all of it. His desire for legitimacy and power stands out a bit, so perhaps he has some ambition to be put in a high place as opposed to merely in a position to hurt others, but I still think the latter is infinitely more important to him and the only thing that really counts. And monothematic sadists are by definition boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sourjapes Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 13 hours ago, newbieone said: It'd be hard for me to view unmitigated sadism as interesting, and Ramsay's personality pretty much has nothing else in it, anything else is vestigial and subsumded in it. He knows how to fight and knows the basics of politics/diplomacy/living like a noble, but even in that he's degenerate and all of it. His desire for legitimacy and power stands out a bit, so perhaps he has some ambition to be put in a high place as opposed to merely in a position to hurt others, but I still think the latter is infinitely more important to him and the only thing that really counts. And monothematic sadists are by definition boring. I think his character is a little better than that. His sadism, his rape and hatred of women, and his resentment of Theon are all things that make sense. He hated Theon's good looks and success with women because Ramsay is hideous. I can't imagine any lady ever fawned over him. Which also explains his games with hunting and butchering maidens; it's revenge. Now he's the one with the power and he flaunts it. He must have really resented being a low-born, ugly, bastard. Once he meets his father he strives to be a true Bolton and I think that exasperates his brutality. He saw the sigil and learned the history and so he overcompensates. Nobody will doubt he is Ramsay BOLTON when he is so feared and so drenched blood. Like I said before it is a nice mirror to Theon and Jon who also both want to be accepted by families that they are technically not a part of. His poor upbrginging as well pays off in that we see he can't really play the part of proper Lord very well. In short bursts when nobody challenges him in any way... but the slightest offense or resistance to what he wants and he quickly flies off the handle. It's believable insecurity. What annoyed me about Show Ramsay was that he was raised by his father for many years, possibly since birth, and he could play the part of Lord just fine. His character flaws are alluded to but then dropped and his fall is mainly the result of forces beyond his control sweeping in to save him. His sociopathy was shallower as well because in the show he's not particularly bad looking and has been acquianted with relative wealth and status for a while. ... but that's another topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 6 hours ago, Sourjapes said: I think his character is a little better than that. His sadism, his rape and hatred of women, and his resentment of Theon are all things that make sense. He hated Theon's good looks and success with women because Ramsay is hideous. I can't imagine any lady ever fawned over him. Which also explains his games with hunting and butchering maidens; it's revenge. Now he's the one with the power and he flaunts it. He must have really resented being a low-born, ugly, bastard. Once he meets his father he strives to be a true Bolton and I think that exasperates his brutality. He saw the sigil and learned the history and so he overcompensates. Nobody will doubt he is Ramsay BOLTON when he is so feared and so drenched blood. Like I said before it is a nice mirror to Theon and Jon who also both want to be accepted by families that they are technically not a part of. Theon probably was(before his Reekining), everything Ramsey, wishes he was-handsome, and a prince. How could he not destroy Theon for that? If you're right about Ramsey feeling the need to overcompensate, for his base born heritage It's interesting, to see how each Ramsey and Theon struggle with their identity in a lot of the same ways; Theon, while with the Ironborn always came up short in their ways; he did barely the perfuctionary, amount, half-heartfily, and it was clear to everyone this wasn't natural for him and he wasn't getting it; he knows Ironborn do x, but doesn't understand why they do x, so when he tries to do x it comes across as though he's a poser; Ramsey gets the sadism part down(because he's a natural psychopath), but he struggles with the political maneuvering to that of a lord; he's not stupid(far from it), but as a commoner, he has only recently been aquatinted with dealing with nobility recently. Well as a noble. His time as Reek, showed he could as courtrsous as any peasant, to a lord, "yes m'lord, right away m'lord, yes I do stink like pig shit, m'lord", he knows how to talk to them when they are in a superior position to him,clearly, but where he feels is when he's officially(nominally?),their equal. Also, interesting how Ramsey departs his (wishful) origin to story to Reek II(Theon). I don't imagine Reek II would have ever asked to hear this, so Ramsey must have delivered this without prompting. I don't think this is the type of story to where Ramsey would let his inner-circle to hear, at risk of them laughing(out of ear shot of course), for the fact it does sound so Swarmy; hell Roose even got a chuckle out of it. But Ramsey shared it to Reek II. Why? I feel Ramsey knows Reek II will never laugh at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foot_Of_The_King Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 The most interesting version of Ramsey is when he is playing Reek in ACOK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost+Nymeria4Eva Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 On 2/28/2018 at 4:33 AM, Kandrax said: I'm not saying that Ramsay is boring, i am just curious to know if some of you dislike him not only as person, but as character as well. His character arc is not meant to be interesting as with the others like Dany or Arya. He is meant to be terrifying. At least, he's meant to leave the reader seriously disturbed. And he does. Reading those chapters were just horrifying and I hope the Boltons are killed off soon in some manner. He's a total sicko and really brings out the grimdark theme GRRM luuurves to use. As @The Fattest Leech said, his chara is also similar to some others. He is a bit like Joffery in a way. They are minor villains tho. In TWOW, I'm guessing Euron is going to make Ramsey look like a pit bull puppy if the sample Damphir chapter is any indication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 He's the face of next level chaos, of the sort you didn't think you were inviting to dinner when you sent out invitations for regular level chaos. So, in that sense, it's important that we see what develops with his piece on the chessboard, because of what his presense represents. His actual surface level behavior as a character, though? That can be seen as a bit of a one- note symphony that got tiresome a while ago, yes. The lesson being that we don't get to just wish him away because of that, or else the guy in Syria would be gone along with his murderous Russian assistants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josette DuPres Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 I do not. I find him reprehensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Ramsay is just... there. He's stirring the pot, and being evil just because. Honestly the only thing that fills me with curiosity about the character is the question of if Reek corrupted Ramsay or Ramsay Reek? Roose is a more eloquent and purposeful villain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kandrax Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Lord Lannister said: Reek corrupted Ramsay or Ramsay Reek? Ramsay's relationship with Little Walder is very similar to his relationship with Reek. Like LW, Ramsay was also unruly as kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Kandrax said: Ramsay's relationship with Little Walder is very similar to his relationship with Reek. Like LW, Ramsay was also unruly as kid. I never considered that's why he's keeping the Frey kids around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Lord Lannister said: I never considered that's why he's keeping the Frey kids around. He's keeping them around most likely because Roose told him specificly to the boys as wards-but nevertheless I think Ramsey has developed a certain fondness for the boy(being so much like Ramsey himself)-little Walder had become somewhat as his protégé-dare I say the boy would even become a part of Ramsey's legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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