Agent Orange

How far will Arya go to kill her enemies?

174 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Har! Challenge for @Light a wight tonight and @kissdbyfire and any others who may wish to join

I was being silly when I brought up the boot thawg. To my pea brain, It is odd that two men in the same chapter said the exact thing. "Good boots are hard to find."

On 4/2/2018 at 3:55 PM, Clegane'sPup said:

Doesn’t really mean anything, about the boots I mean, it’s just odd. Both men saying the same thing.

Soooooooo, besides the Arya FfC Cat of the Canals chapter -------- are those exact words spoken by any of martin's other characters? :drool::devil: Let's get that boot cracked pot boiling.

 

Edited by Clegane'sPup

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20 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

What happened at Summerhall? For me Summerhall is one of those vague non disclosed mystery Targ things having something to do with Rhaegar. (?)

It was inside job.

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Posted (edited)

38 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Har! Challenge for @Light a wight tonight and @kissdbyfire and any others who may wish to join

I was being silly when I brought up the boot thawg. To my pea brain, It is odd that two men in the same chapter said the exact thing. "Good boots are hard to find."

Soooooooo, besides the Arya FfC Cat of the Canals chapter -------- are those exact words spoken by any of martin's other characters? :drool::devil: Let's get that boot cracked pot boiling.

 

It's not the exact same words, but taken in context w/ glamours and the fact that Arya will learn about that, we have master glamourer Mel explaining the Mance/Rattleshirt switcheroo to Jon...

ADwD, Melisandre

“Jon Snow turned to Melisandre. “What sorcery is this?”
“Call it what you will. Glamor, seeming, illusion. R’hllor is Lord of Light, Jon Snow, and it is given to his servants to weave with it, as others weave with thread.”
Mance Rayder chuckled. “I had my doubts as well, Snow, but why not let her try? It was that, or let Stannis roast me.”
“The bones help,” said Melisandre. “The bones remember. The strongest glamors are built of such things. A dead man’s boots, a hank of hair, a bag of fingerbones. With whispered words and prayer, a man’s shadow can be drawn forth from such and draped about another like a cloak. The wearer’s essence does not change, only his seeming.”

People keep bringing up the fingerbones, b/c Davos lost his. I think the bag of fingerbones is the red herring, and the real clue is "a dead man's boots". 

ETA:

ADwD, The Ugly Little Girl

“Mummers change their faces with artifice,” the kindly man was saying, “and sorcerers use glamors, weaving light and shadow and desire to make illusions that trick the eye. These arts you shall learn, but what we do here goes deeper.”

Edited by kissdbyfire

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14 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

It's not the exact same words, but taken in context w/ glamours and the fact that Arya will learn about that, we have master glamourer Mel explaining the Mance/Rattleshirt switcheroo to Jon...

ADwD, Melisandre

“Jon Snow turned to Melisandre. “What sorcery is this?”
“Call it what you will. Glamor, seeming, illusion. R’hllor is Lord of Light, Jon Snow, and it is given to his servants to weave with it, as others weave with thread.”
Mance Rayder chuckled. “I had my doubts as well, Snow, but why not let her try? It was that, or let Stannis roast me.”
“The bones help,” said Melisandre. “The bones remember. The strongest glamors are built of such things. A dead man’s boots, a hank of hair, a bag of fingerbones. With whispered words and prayer, a man’s shadow can be drawn forth from such and draped about another like a cloak. The wearer’s essence does not change, only his seeming.”

People keep bringing up the fingerbones, b/c Davos lost his. I think the bag of fingerbones is the red herring, and the real clue is "a dead man's boots". 

ETA:

ADwD, The Ugly Little Girl

“Mummers change their faces with artifice,” the kindly man was saying, “and sorcerers use glamors, weaving light and shadow and desire to make illusions that trick the eye. These arts you shall learn, but what we do here goes deeper.”

I would verra much like it if Arya somehow finds her way to the Wall and whoops up on missy Mel. Especially now that Mel’s chest of goodies is running low.

A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I       Her sleeves were full of hidden pockets, and she checked them carefully as she did every morning to make certain all her powders were in place. Powders to turn fire green or blue or silver, powders to make a flame roar and hiss and leap up higher than a man is tall, powders to make smoke. A smoke for truth, a smoke for lust, a smoke for fear, and the thick black smoke that could kill a man outright. The red priestess armed herself with a pinch of each of them.     The carved chest that she had brought across the narrow sea was more than three-quarters empty now. And while Melisandre had the knowledge to make more powders, she lacked many rare ingredients./

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I would verra much like it if Arya somehow finds her way to the Wall and whoops up on missy Mel. Especially now that Mel’s chest of goodies is running low.

That's the idea. Well, that's my idea anyway! :D

And it's in tune w/ other characters being linked to past legends and stories. Stannis/NK, Manderly/Rat Cook, and Arya/Danny Flint, glamoured as Dareon, former owner of the now infamous pair of boots!

8 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I       Her sleeves were full of hidden pockets, and she checked them carefully as she did every morning to make certain all her powders were in place. Powders to turn fire green or blue or silver, powders to make a flame roar and hiss and leap up higher than a man is tall, powders to make smoke. A smoke for truth, a smoke for lust, a smoke for fear, and the thick black smoke that could kill a man outright. The red priestess armed herself with a pinch of each of them.     The carved chest that she had brought across the narrow sea was more than three-quarters empty now. And while Melisandre had the knowledge to make more powders, she lacked many rare ingredients./

Yeah, Mel does have real powers but she's also full of tricks. What happens when she runs out of all her magic powders and stuff. :eek:

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1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Arya was fearful of the dwarf woman with dim red eyes. I agree the dwarf woman experience grief. I do not agree the dwarf woman was repulsed by Arya as in  :ack: I think the dwarf woman felt Arya’s pain, grief and lonesomeness.

This.

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On 3/31/2018 at 5:10 PM, Agent Orange said:

Arya is nuts.  I believe she will not hesitate to burn down an entire city to cross Cersei off her Hit List.  She is worse than Catelyn Stoneheart in some ways. 

Obviously, none of us know the answer.  But I will present the question and see what kind of opinion it gets.  How far will Arya go to kill the people on her Hit List?  If there is no other way to kill Cersei, will Arya be willing to burn down an entire city to get her revenge? 

Use all of the information at your disposal, including the sample chapters from TWOW to form your opinion.

Rank the following in order of most obsessed with revenge.  The one most obsessed with revenge being number 1 and followed by the rest in that order.

Arya, Doran, Catelyn, Oznak Zo Phal's family, Walder Frey, Littlefinger, Tyrion, Pyat Pree, Cersei, and Sandor.

She would if the scenario is such that the only way to finish her list is to have collateral damage.  

1)  Doran

2)  Arya

3)  Catelyn

4)  Walder

5)  Pyat Pree

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said:

Now look at Walder Frey, who kills a few thousand people over a slight or Tywin, who wipes out two whole noble houses, the Reynes and the Tarbecks just to establish his authority.

Well, to be fair, Walder was trying to minimize the damages to his house for siding with the rebels.  One can hardly blame him for turning on Robb when the young wolf disrespected him.  It's not worth risking the family wealth to stay loyal to someone like Robb Stark.

Tywin, he just wanted to show everyone who was boss.  I agree, Tywin went too far.  But then, Arya went too far in killing that old man at the club.  The insurance underwriter.  The man would have been reported to the proper authorities if he had broken the laws.  The fact that he was assassinated and the matter was handled under the cover of secrecy should tell us that the man is very likely innocent.  

22 hours ago, 300 H&H Magnum said:

The old woman has seen plenty of bloodshed and grief in her time and yet she is repulsed by Arya.   There is no happy future for Arya.  She's too far gone.

Arya doesn't deserve a happy future but there is a possibility that her mental illness can be healed.  Remember Maegor was severely injured and suffered trauma.  He was incapacitated for a while.  Bedridden and then he recovered.  I believe his bond with Balerion saved him from death.  In a similar manner, Bran survived his injuries because of his bond with his wolf.   None of the Targaryens who had dragons lost their minds.  There is something to the bond that heals the body.  Dragons are infinitely more powerful and many times stronger than wolves.  Dragons can heal their human if the bond is strong enough.  Quite possibly, if Arya ever finds Nymeria again, their bond may heal Arya's insanity.  Nymeria is nowhere near the strength of a dragon but her bond may be enough to heal Arya.

 

Edited by Aline de Gavrillac

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3 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Well, to be fair, Walder was trying to minimize the damages to his house for siding with the rebels.  One can hardly blame him for turning on Robb when the young wolf disrespected him.  It's not worth risking the family wealth to stay loyal to someone like Robb Stark.

Tywin, he just wanted to show everyone who was boss.  I agree, Tywin went too far.  But then, Arya went too far in killing that old man at the club.  The insurance underwriter.  The man would have been reported to the proper authorities if he had broken the laws.  The fact that he was assassinated and the matter was handled under the cover of secrecy should tell us that the man is very likely innocent.  

Arya doesn't deserve a happy future but there is a possibility that her mental illness can be healed.  Remember Maegor was severely injured and suffered trauma.  He was incapacitated for a while.  Bedridden and then he recovered.  I believe his bond with Balerion saved him from death.  In a similar manner, Bran survived his injuries because of his bond with his wolf.   None of the Targaryens who had dragons lost their minds.  There is something to the bond that heals the body.  Dragons are infinitely more powerful and many times stronger than wolves.  Dragons can heal their human if the bond is strong enough.  Quite possibly, if Arya ever finds Nymeria again, their bond may heal Arya's insanity.  Nymeria is nowhere near the strength of a dragon but her bond may be enough to heal Arya.

 

Sorry, you're just posting wishes.

Lord Walder was a suppurating boil of resentment, even disregarding the broken marriage pledge.

You have no evidence of the legal system in Braavos, whether an aggrieved party has recourse under the law or not. It seems as if murder is petty rampant, with the bravos out every night fighting duels, so why would commercial crime be punishable?

Dragons can heal their humans? Really? In which chapter in which book does this appear?

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

 Dragons can heal their human if the bond is strong enough.  Quite possibly, if Arya ever finds Nymeria again, their bond may heal Arya's insanity.  Nymeria is nowhere near the strength of a dragon but her bond may be enough to heal Arya.
 

Oh sure, that's why Deanerys got very sick  when she's lost, with her dragon, in the Dothraki Sea…

Your post makes zero sense.

Edited by Nowy Tends

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9 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Well, to be fair, Walder was trying to minimize the damages to his house for siding with the rebels.  One can hardly blame him for turning on Robb when the young wolf disrespected him. 

[...]

Arya doesn't deserve a happy future but there is a possibility that her mental illness can be healed. 

So, "let's be fair to Walder Frey, but Arya's a psycho beyond redemption. Nice.

I still cannot fathom how so many people managed to read books so different from those that GRRM has actually written. I mean, it takes a serious creative effort.

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20 minutes ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

So, "let's be fair to Walder Frey, but Arya's a psycho beyond redemption. Nice.

I still cannot fathom how so many people managed to read books so different from those that GRRM has actually written. I mean, it takes a serious creative effort.

Indeed. And those engaged in this amazing creative effort are gonna hate Winds

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25 minutes ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

So, "let's be fair to Walder Frey, but Arya's a psycho beyond redemption. Nice.

I still cannot fathom how so many people managed to read books so different from those that GRRM has actually written. I mean, it takes a serious creative effort.

I honestly believe it's 50% "different reading" (to remain polite) and 50% pose. They are unable to support their point with the slightest line of the text

 

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It's fair (?) to say our master of whisperers is nuts yet in a constructive way, no?  Yes?  No?   Then Arya for Master of Whispers in the next election cycle!

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On 3/31/2018 at 5:53 PM, Nevets said:

One thing she has learned from the FM:  Collateral damage is a very bad thing.  So, even if she does try to kill Cersei (something I have my doubts about), she will target Cersei, and only Cersei.

Collateral damage is a bad thing but put Arya in a situation where there is no other way to isolate Cersei and she will not hesitate.   Have you read the Mercy chapters?  The spoilers?  

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On 3/31/2018 at 6:19 PM, Kandrax said:

I think that she will kill guilty, but spares  innocents. She still Stark, and they don't kill someone because of last name. At least current Starks.

The Starks are not any more honorable nor more moral than, say, the Tyrells.  There is no reason to think an angry Stark who happens to be emotionally damaged will act like Ned.  Arya is very emotionally damaged and she chose to pursue the road to revenge.

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On 3/31/2018 at 7:02 PM, Helena Kyle said:

She's insane and therefore, somewhat unpredictable.  The old man in Braavos had no quarrel with Arya and she killed him to continue her education with the faceless men.  

She can be both insane and predictable.  She's not getting any kinder.  Looking at her "development", she's not getting kinder.  She's desensitized to death and killing.  It can only get worse.

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On 4/1/2018 at 8:44 AM, Nowy Tends said:

No, absolutely not. Obviously you don't understand the character. Arya has no desire to make collateral damages (unlike Cersei).

Maybe it's you who doesn't understand the character.  I'm not asking if Arya has a desire to make collateral damage.  I'm asking if she's willing to accept collateral damage in order to get her revenge.  

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On 4/1/2018 at 3:52 PM, White Ravens said:

I think this list should include Lady Stoneheart, who appears to be motivated by pure revenge. 

Catelyn doesn't belong on this list at all. 

My apologies.  Catelyn = Lady Stoneheart for the purposes of this discussion.  

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Posted (edited)

14 minutes ago, Agent Orange said:

Collateral damage is a bad thing but put Arya in a situation where there is no other way to isolate Cersei and she will not hesitate.   Have you read the Mercy chapters?  The spoilers?  

Yes I have.  What about it?

 

She kills Raff, and only Raff, and does it quite quickly and painlessly. 

  Besides which, she hardly even thinks of Cersei in Braavos (one mention outside of her list, and that's in passing).  So, no, I still don't think she will kill innocents to get to Cersei, if she even bothers in the first place.

Edited by Nevets

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