NFL. vol 3

[Mexal]

Cutler is a solid QB. He was pretty good in Denver and now he's playing well here. One bad year on an absymal team shouldn't define a player.

He's not amazing and he certainly isn't the next Manning, but he's solid which is more than you can say about half the QBs in the league right now.

[Lightning Lord]

Saying somebody sucks whose team is 3-0 and then saying that wait until November until you make a decision is hypocritical. How does Cutler 'suck', anyway? Was he solely responsible for the Broncos' mediocrity? It is such an idiotic statement to make, and then saying in the very next sentence to not rush to judgment of the Bears is even more idiotic.

I don't think he sucks, Stego does. I think he's mediocre at best. Unless I am really way off, Stego thinks Cutler sucks based on his previous years, not based on this year's performance.

And waiting more than three games to evaluate a team seems like a very good idea. Teams start hot or start cold, it's the way it goes. Do people really believe that KC is one of the top three teams in the league?

This isn't hypocritical. Players and teams are judged differently and for good reason.

[Rockroi]

Dez Bryant took Roy Williams out to dinner recently in lieu of the whole shoulder pad incident. Dez invited the offense while Roy invited the defense as well. I think the young fella now wishes he had carried those pads.

Dez Bryant gets 54k dinner bill

:lol:

My initial reaction was "This is totally going to win the fans over to the player's POV given the state of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. I mean, the players can BARELY afford to take their teammates out to a diner that costs more than many people make in a year! When will the owners address this?!?!"

[The Wedge]

My initial reaction was "This is totally going to win the fans over to the player's POV given the state of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. I mean, the players can BARELY afford to take their teammates out to a diner that costs more than many people make in a year! When will the owners address this?!?!"

More like, "Dayyum... they really do need a standardized rookie pay scale."

[Mexal]

As I am bored, I think it's time to bring up the age old question...which division is the strongest.

I feel like we have three contenders this year.

AFC North

AFC East

AFC South

I find it interesting that when looking at the divisions, I don't feel like any of the divisions in the NFC are that strong. Granted there are some very good teams yet I feel that as a whole, they are significantly weaker than the AFC counterparts. In each division that I mentioned, I feel there are three teams that have a good chance of winning while in the NFC, most divisions are 2 team races.

The more I look at this, the more I believe that the AFC North is the strongest division based on very strong play of the defenses. The offenses aren't horrible, good enough to score enough points to win and good enough to make a last minute come back when necessary. They're helmed by decent QBs with solid running games (Mendenhall, Rice and Benson) and good weapons in the passing game. Not all are clicking at the moment, but the talent is there. That being said, the defenses are straight up nasty and as the year goes on, that will prove quite important should they avoid injuries.

On the opposite side of the spectrum, you have the AFC South that boasts 3 very strong offenses with defenses that are good enough to get it done but will hardly dominate a team. I find it interesting the contrast between the divisions. There can definitely be an argument made for the South.

This, of course, leaves us with the AFC East which boasts the Jets and Patriots with the Dolphins close behind. All three teams play tough, competitive football and can beat you on any given day. I think they're a step behind the North mainly because I don't believe in the Dolphins as completely legit, but they still feature some very tough teams.

What is your opinion? Do you think any of the NFC divisions stack up? I would have considered the North (because of the Packers/Bears) and the South (Falcons/Saints) but I felt that the other two teams in the division were significantly worse than the top two teams.

[Jaime L]

As I am bored, I think it's time to bring up the age old question...which division is the strongest.

I feel like we have three contenders this year.

AFC North

AFC East

AFC South

I think the AFC North is the most brutal. The three punishing defenses in it make every game in that division a war of attrition. And you just get a feeling there that every yard, touchdown, game needs to be earned. Steelers are also looking scary in the early going. They've just embarrassed teams to this point...with their 4th string QB.

Would think the NFC East will be better a month or two from now than what it has shown. Then again the Giants and Redskins are looking to have serious issues at the moment so who knows.

[Darkostar]

If Minnesota picks up, I'm starting to be terrified of the NFC North. AFC North is currently the strongest division, though.

[DanteGabriel]

If my team were not in one of those divisions, AFC North is the one I'd least like to see appear on their schedule. At least two of those defenses are fully capable of beating the shit out of your offense and knocking out your quarterback.

[awesome possum]

I don't think he sucks, Stego does. I think he's mediocre at best. Unless I am really way off, Stego thinks Cutler sucks based on his previous years, not based on this year's performance.

And Stego is wrong. It's his personal opinion, and he's entitled to it, but that doesn't make it correct or even close to correct.

As for mediocre at best, same deal. You're entitled to your opinion but it's just that.

The facts are as follows:

In his career so far (56 games played):

Cutler has passed for 13560 yards for 87 TD and 65 INT on mediocre to bad Broncos teams and a Bears team that ranged last season from just average to horrible.

Let's compare with two other future Hall of Fame QB's first four seasons.

Tom Brady (64 games in his first four season): 13919 yards 97 TD 52 INT while playing on good teams that won Super Bowls.

Drew Brees (58 games in his first four season): 12427 yards 79 TD 53 INT while playing on a Chargers team that had big ups and downs but also saw the emergence of LdT.

Cutler has thrown more INTs, as last season definitely killed him in that statistical area, but he's comparable in the other areas. I guess that means if Cutler is "awful" then Tom Brady is mediocre at best and Drew Brees just plain stinks. Likewise, if Cutler is just "mediocre at best" then Tom Brady is merely serviceable while Brees is still bad.

This isn't hypocritical. Players and teams are judged differently and for good reason.

You're right. They are judged differently, but in this case the "good" reason is that Stego just doesn't like Cutler and so he tries to spread his opinion as fact. It's very obvious to anyone not blinded by irrationality that Cutler is not so far.

His career is still young and he may flame out and end up a bad QB. Right now, though, he's one of the best young QBs in the league and is ranked (even before this season began) one of the top 10 with the opportunity to become one of the top 5 QBs in the league.

[Kalbear]

Well, stats don't tell the whole story. Those 65 ints are a pretty big deal, and that he gave up points doing so (by largely throwing red zone ints, thus missing a field goal at least) was a problem. Since the Broncos had a crap defense and the Bears weren't much better last year he was throwing a lot when he was behind too - which tends to pad the yards significantly.

I agree with you that he's on pace to be one of the best QBs the league has ever seen, but I think Arakasi is right - he's more in the mold of making decisions like Favre, not like Brady or Brees, and that's not the best QB to model after.

[awesome possum]

AFC North and South are both very good and the East isn't that far behind. If Minnesota gets it together the NFC North is head and shoulders the toughest in the NFC- but that's not saying much compared to how many great teams there are in the AFC right now.

[Trebla]

The AFC North is the Big Dog these days. The NFC East is certainly sliding. I'm sticking with my belief that Vick is Fool's Gold. Dallas and the Redskins have been Sybil. And the Giants have been an undisciplined mess.

That brings us to the GAME OF THE WEEK: McNabb and the Skins at Philly. With a win, the Eagles can go up 2 1/2 games over the Cowboys and G-Men who have byes. The Skins would drop to 1-3 and all Hell would break loose in DC because their next 3 games are against the Packers, Indy, and @ Chicago. This makes it a MUST WIN for the Skins. With my beloved Cowboys on bye, I'm firmly rooting for the Skins! :thumbsup:

[Jaime L]

If my team were not in one of those divisions, AFC North is the one I'd least like to see appear on their schedule. At least two of those defenses are fully capable of beating the shit out of your offense and knocking out your quarterback.

Or turning Carson Palmer into Jordan*.

*Actually can we prove this didn't happen? Maybe they're playing a practical joke on all of us. Have you seen them?! We'd have no way of knowing if they did.

[awesome possum]

I agree with you that he's on pace to be one of the best QBs the league has ever seen, but I think Arakasi is right - he's more in the mold of making decisions like Favre, not like Brady or Brees, and that's not the best QB to model after.

No doubt, and that's why I think hiring Mike Martz may have been the best move for the Bears. Martz is one of the few guys who might be able to calm Cutler down enough to think through situations. As we've both pointed out, his check-downs and actually throwing the ball away are miles ahead of where he was last season. If he can continue to improve in that area and play at his current level without the turnovers, the sky is the limit.

[Mexal]

Or turning Carson Palmer into Jordan*.

*Actually can we prove this didn't happen? Maybe they're playing a practical joke on all of us. Have you seen them?! We'd have no way of knowing if they did.

:lol:

They don't look THAT much alike!!!

That being said, he's certainly playing like him. It has been painful to watch. I don't know if I've ever seen a QB with so much talent slide so far to the depths of mediocrity.

[Jaime L]

:lol:

They don't look THAT much alike!!!

I dunno, remember seeing Jordan Palmer at Redskin training camp a year or two ago and thinking he looks exactly like Carson, he's gotta be awesome! Until I saw his first pass...

That being said, he's certainly playing like him. It has been painful to watch. I don't know if I've ever seen a QB with so much talent slide so far to the depths of mediocrity.

Yeah, it's very weird. Sometimes have a tendency to think he's just old or on the downside of his career...then I remember he's 4 years younger than Peyton Manning.

Not sure if he hasn't been the same guy since Kimo Von Oelenheffen (or however you spell the baron's name) or if it was something else. Just know he was always the one guy that could get me to believe in the Bengals and now, incredibly, he seems to be the one guy potentially holding them back.

[Stego]

Cutler makes bad decisions consistently. It does not always show in interceptions. (And not all interceptions end up in the stats -- a la Green Bay this past weekend.)Trying to find a way to compare him to Tom Brady is ludicrous. (Except that he probably has a better arm, speaking purely physically.)

He's stupid on the field. There's no cure for that.

[Kalbear]

I think Palmer has never been the same since his leg surgery, but I think the more telling surgery was his arm surgery. His throws just seem to go...completely to the wrong place. Regardless, Palmer is done as far as a high-level QB. I know I said this before and was shouted down for it, but he's simply not looked strong for a couple years now.

[The Wedge]

Trying to find a way to compare him to Tom Brady is ludicrous.

Well, Brady's only married to Gisele Bundchen, while Cutler's dating that chick from the Hills.

I'm a Bears fan and all, but I think Tom's got Jay outdistanced there, as well.

[Kalbear]

Yeah, but Brady started with Bridget Moynihan. You can't just jump into Bundchen-level play early on. Cutler has 5 years to get to the level of model-banging that Brady's at. Plus with a better supporting cast he'll be able to nail more models; right now, he doesn't have the weapons around him to reliably nail the supermodel types.

The problem there is that Cutler does make bad decisions and may sling and slang his dick around the league. That can win you some crazy women but it can also get you in a lot of trouble. Projections from BO (banging outsiders) have Cutler's career banging most similar to players like Joe Namath - early rise, big press, bangs a lot of women but ends up drunk and begging to kiss Suzy Kolber.