(Book Spoilers) Coldhands Problem

[-Ghost-]

I really thought we were gettin CH. they fuckin tricked me

[Gendels Children]

I pretty sure they wouldn't cut him, but we might not actually meet him until next season

[Jorah the Explorer]

For what it's worth, I immediately assumed Coldhands was Benjen while reading and continued to do so. If true it answers two mysteries, namely "What happened to Benjen Stark?" and "Who is Coldhands?". The fact that they are both beyond the wall makes it fit like an ice cold glove. Yeah, Martin could end up making it different, but I (mostly) prefer loose ends to be tied rather than opening new ones with random characters. Perhaps Martin intended Coldhands to be Benjen while writing A Storm of Swords, but changed his mind when he caught the bloat disease during Feast and Dance.

[Stannis the Menace]

They don't really need to cast a high paid actor as Coldhands. His face is covered the whole time we see him in the books. They could realistically just have an extra play him and use someone as a voiceover who is already on the payroll. So, I don't think worrying about casting budget will really effect whether or not we get Coldhands.

This

[Amoracchius]

He's not Benjen. Benjen didn't die "long ago".

There, problem solved.

This is what I always thought. Also, given that Sam recognizes various members of the NW after they became wights, if Coldhands were Benjen, wouldn't Bran have recognized his own uncle?

[lostinwesteros]

He's not Benjen. Benjen didn't die "long ago".

There, problem solved.

Yes. Although I love Benjen along with everyone else and would like nothing better than for him to return [as yet he may], Coldhands was born long ago. My vote is that he is TNK, but that's a whole other thread.

I've been waiting for CH ever since the assassination went down at Craster's Keep and thought that surely he would appear in last night's episode. :crying: If they take him out altogether, though -- or really shortchange him, like I think they've done with so many of my favorite characters/scenes, I'll be :bawl: AND :tantrum:

[Joyful Union]

I wish we would get Coldhands, but if I put myself in a non-bookreaders shoes, it's probably best he's not in the show.

I mean, dude turns up surrounded by ravens, is icy blue cold, and rides a bloody elk. Most people's reactions would be "Who the fuck is this clown?"

[Mulled Wino]

I wish we would get Coldhands, but if I put myself in a non-bookreaders shoes, it's probably best he's not in the show.

I mean, dude turns up surrounded by ravens, is icy blue cold, and rides a bloody elk. Most people's reactions would be "Who the fuck is this clown?"

its a fantasy series. I think he'd be good tv, but I do agree that he's not necessary.

[Spring Bass]

You don't need to have him ride an elk. You could just have him riding a horse, or even a dead horse like the Others do.

My guess is they'll just use an extra, if they include him at all.

[siknes]

He's not Benjen. Benjen didn't die "long ago".

There, problem solved.

What is the definition of long ago? Just not yesterday--for sure. A few years ago-which is the actual time frame in the books. or hundred of years ago-which would be your theory. Now the other details are covered face, NW black clothes, but there is no mention of the clothes being faded and ratty, which with GRRM's attention to detail would have been written. Another fact out there that it isn't Benjen is Bran would have recognized his voice, but Bran is young and rarely saw Benjen, Benjen was close to Jon. Now we know all the Starks are Wargs, I am guessing that it was Lyanna and Benjen on the horses that Bran saw thru the tree-net. Now hear is my way out there theory. Part of it is the fact that D & D knew from the get go the overall direction of the storyline. They have Benjen's small part at the beginning, in the dining hall, he looks like he is in deep contemplation of something he was to do. I think the "Old Gods" used him as a proxy to give all the 5 Stark children and the Winged- Wolf their gift, He(Ben) when still alive Warged a stag and slew the Mother Dire-wolf, it is just not a natural occurance. Benjen, Knowing he wouldn't be able to live mortally in the Fore-ever Winter land, gives himself as a sacrifice, but the Old Gods grant him his own consciousness. The whole "I'm your monster Bran Stark" to me means he is Benjen, protecting Bran. If I am wrong and it is the Night's King or something else, I believe it would be a former Brandon Stark, GRRM loves double meanings is what he writes. What do you people think. I have only read thru once, and am not sure if there was a dead body of the Stag, when the Starks found the pups. No Stag body would give credence to my theory. Also, I am on this theory because there have been no sightings of any other Dire-wolves, N or S of the Wall. Shout out to Nymeria/ Ghost union, the Starks need more pups once all is said and done, all the King's of the N had Wolves at the foot of their statues. Keep the tradition going.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

What is the definition of long ago? Just not yesterday--for sure. A few years ago-which is the actual time frame in the books. or hundred of years ago-which would be your theory. Now the other details are covered face, NW black clothes, but there is no mention of the clothes being faded and ratty, which with GRRM's attention to detail would have been written. Another fact out there that it isn't Benjen is Bran would have recognized his voice, but Bran is young and rarely saw Benjen, Benjen was close to Jon. Now we know all the Starks are Wargs, I am guessing that it was Lyanna and Benjen on the horses that Bran saw thru the tree-net. Now hear is my way out there theory. Part of it is the fact that D & D knew from the get go the overall direction of the storyline. They have Benjen's small part at the beginning, in the dining hall, he looks like he is in deep contemplation of something he was to do. I think the "Old Gods" used him as a proxy to give all the 5 Stark children and the Winged- Wolf their gift, He(Ben) when still alive Warged a stag and slew the Mother Dire-wolf, it is just not a natural occurance. Benjen, Knowing he wouldn't be able to live mortally in the Fore-ever Winter land, gives himself as a sacrifice, but the Old Gods grant him his own consciousness. The whole "I'm your monster Bran Stark" to me means he is Benjen, protecting Bran. If I am wrong and it is the Night's King or something else, I believe it would be a former Brandon Stark, GRRM loves double meanings is what he writes. What do you people think. I have only read thru once, and am not sure if there was a dead body of the Stag, when the Starks found the pups. No Stag body would give credence to my theory. Also, I am on this theory because there have been no sightings of any other Dire-wolves, N or S of the Wall. Shout out to Nymeria/ Ghost union, the Starks need more pups once all is said and done, all the King's of the N had Wolves at the foot of their statues. Keep the tradition going.

in terms of death

long time ago means like years

someone who died 1 year ago or 2 years ago is not considered a long time

[Amoracchius]

in terms of death

long time ago means like years

someone who died 1 year ago or 2 years ago is not considered a long time

Especially given that it's Leaf who says it. For 200 year old COTF, "long ago" is probably a long freaking time.

[Bastard of Baltimore]

Since we saw a scene in the previews of Sam running into Bran and company in what looked like the Nightfort, I think we will see coldhands this season as he escorts Sam and Gilly to the black gate. I am guessing he will be 100% CGI. Additionally, the murder of Ravens at the end of last episode further supports we will see Coldhands.

[siknes]

he's a special wight, so, why would Benjen be special wight

do you know the Night King story?

he married a female other and it would be very logical, if she turned him in a special wight, in the name of their love

Benjen is alive, that's my opinion

But the Others Warg dead things, Coldhands is only Warging live creatures, the Stag and flock of crows.

[Kasrith]

Slight change to your scene. Have sam say there's someone to meet him on the other side of the wal. Rickon and osha split from the rest and go to where ever. then bran goes through the door, we see or hear a bunch of ravens bran looks around and sees coldhands.

You don't even really need to cast a actor to play the role, it could be a extra like Beric was the first season.

I think it'll be a stronger effect/cliffhanger if the fade to black of the episode happens as he goes through the tunnel - literally into darkness. Then start off with an elk riding/crow surrounded/coldhanded dude with blue eyes. Great start to a season.

Whereas if Bran meets him in the finale, there's no really surprise/energy to carry the beginning of the next season for the Bran arc other than more talking. Everyone is already growing tired of dialogue, having Sam shock them in the Nightfort for a finale, and Coldhands waiting for them on the other end to start s4 gives some momentum for both events.

[Mychel_Redfort]

What makes me think that Coldhands is Benjen is that GRRM so much likes foreshadowing. In aGoT, when Yoren tells Bran he thinks Benjen is dead, Bran replies : "The children will help him," he blurted, "the children of the forest!". And when we meet the Children in the books, who are they collaborating with ? Coldhands...

As for having died for a long time, Benjen clearly doesn't want to reveal himself to Bran. So what if he has asked the Children to lie about him, rather than having them giving unexpectedly clues to his identity to Bran ?

[Tywin's bastard]

You don't need to have him ride an elk. You could just have him riding a horse, or even a dead horse like the Others do.

My guess is they'll just use an extra, if they include him at all.

Yes, I'd have him ride a horse so you don't have to do some fairly pointless CGI for every scene he's in. He should be pretty easy to include with that change.

[herworship429]

What is the definition of long ago? Just not yesterday--for sure. A few years ago-which is the actual time frame in the books. or hundred of years ago-which would be your theory. Now the other details are covered face, NW black clothes, but there is no mention of the clothes being faded and ratty, which with GRRM's attention to detail would have been written. Another fact out there that it isn't Benjen is Bran would have recognized his voice, but Bran is young and rarely saw Benjen, Benjen was close to Jon. Now we know all the Starks are Wargs, I am guessing that it was Lyanna and Benjen on the horses that Bran saw thru the tree-net. Now hear is my way out there theory. Part of it is the fact that D & D knew from the get go the overall direction of the storyline. They have Benjen's small part at the beginning, in the dining hall, he looks like he is in deep contemplation of something he was to do. I think the "Old Gods" used him as a proxy to give all the 5 Stark children and the Winged- Wolf their gift, He(Ben) when still alive Warged a stag and slew the Mother Dire-wolf, it is just not a natural occurance. Benjen, Knowing he wouldn't be able to live mortally in the Fore-ever Winter land, gives himself as a sacrifice, but the Old Gods grant him his own consciousness. The whole "I'm your monster Bran Stark" to me means he is Benjen, protecting Bran. If I am wrong and it is the Night's King or something else, I believe it would be a former Brandon Stark, GRRM loves double meanings is what he writes. What do you people think. I have only read thru once, and am not sure if there was a dead body of the Stag, when the Starks found the pups. No Stag body would give credence to my theory. Also, I am on this theory because there have been no sightings of any other Dire-wolves, N or S of the Wall. Shout out to Nymeria/ Ghost union, the Starks need more pups once all is said and done, all the King's of the N had Wolves at the foot of their statues. Keep the tradition going.

We DO NOT know for certain that all of the Starks have some kind of warging ability. Do we? Bran, Jon and Arya do (in the books, and only Bran does thus far in the show), but none of the rest of the Stark kids really exhibit more than just a really close relationship with their wolves, and there is absolutely no evidence that Benjen or any other adult Starks have it. Judging from the way that no one but Osha really believes Bran when he tells him about his wolf dreams, I think it's safe to say that the ability has all but died out in the old families south of the Wall. As for what Ben is contemplating in the first book during the feast, it was probably the sudden rash of wildlings trying to cross the Wall, Mance Raydar's forces gathering, and the disappearances of his brothers that remained unexplained. The guy had a lot on his mind, but there's no reason to think that he was acting on orders from the Old Gods or something. As for the debate about timing and what Leaf really meant, I agree that 'long ago' probably does not mean 'three years ago or less', but at least a few decades.

Personally, I think CH is the Night's King. I also think there is a lot more to that story than anyone knows about. We don't know anything about what happened because all the records from that time were destroyed, and I don't think it's ever explicitly stated that the NK was actually killed, or his body destroyed, only that he was taken from power. I know he was consorting with Others and everything, but the reaction from the Night's Watch seems to be a bit overboard, and I think there's more to it that they didn't want getting out. There's also something bugging me about the difference in eye color... because, in all other respects, save for the fact that he seemed to retain his memory and personality and free will, CH is, for all intents and purposes, a wight, correct? Except that he doesn't share the weird blue eyes that the Others and all the other wights do. That can't be a coincidence, so maybe just bringing the wights back doesn't automatically preclude them being under the Others' control (and if this has been hashed out on other threads, my apologies for the repeat, I'm new to this forum). Part of the story of the Night's King was that he supposedly put all of his brothers under some sort of spell to control them. Has the possibility ever been raised that they were actually all killed and turned into wights? Because "freeing" them once the NK and his queen were defeated could have a lot of different meanings, and most NW brothers would probably prefer a peaceful death to being turned into a zombie... this could all mean nothing, of course, but then it could all circle back to what's happened to Jon in aDwD. Just a few way-off-topic thoughts.

[Theda Baratheon]

I WANT TO SEE COLDHANDS.

[herworship429]

Well, didn't the description for episode 10 say something about Bran telling ghost stories? I'm guessing that puts Bran and company at Nightfort by the end of this season. So my guess is we see a bit of Coldhands during that episode with Sam and Gilly (probably he doesn't even speak, they just see him on his elk, or horse, or whatever, or with his ravens, for a few seconds following a wight attack, then cut to something else), and then he pops up again next season when Bran, Meera, Jojen and Hodor emerge on the other side of the Wall.