James Arryn

Yeah, exactly. I don’t necessarily think the twins get more interesting by being Targs, but I can see some potential..but I’m fine with them as Lannisters too and overall my preference is no more secret Targs. Whereas Tyrion imo as you say, it just undercuts almost everything, and adds…dragon-riding? Now to be fair I can see why some think that of him, the dragon dreams thing, but there are hints for the twins too and imo George is quite happy dropping false leads. But the twins zeal about being Lannisters, compared with Tyrion’s mixed feelings, Cersei in particular constantly comparing herself to Tywin, and yeah, Tywin’s rejection of what would be his only actual child, for a guy obsessed with legacy/family. Yeah. Plus of course none of us want Tywin to get what he wants, even posthumously. Jaime is imo the most indifferent, at least in conscious thought, about Tywin, though of course he’s left his mark on all of them. But it does stand out once we get inside his head how little he thinks about Tywin or what Tywin would think beyond sort of general authority figure. Especially considering how much Tyrion and Cersei do. And I wonder sometimes about how much his aspirations were almost all about things like fighting and being a knight, that Tywin kind of sees as an underling’s job or ~ for suckers, though he does seem to derive pride from Jaime’s prowess. On the other hand he’s probably got the least Targ hints, too. Cersei, well, her delight in the flames when she burned the Hand’s tower was the most ‘on-screen’ clue of any of them…maybe if we saw a Tyrion dragon dream instead of just references to it, that might stand out more, but mostly if I think of that it’s with apprehension, I just don’t want George to go that way with him. Cheapens, exactly the right phrase. Not saying GRRM couldn’t make it work, but it just makes him a lot less interesting to me and leans into that ~ superhero comic or Jedi/skywalker feel he reflects sometimes, especially with Starks/direwolves and Targs/dragons. It also feels too much like compensation, which again nudges things towards a meritocratic..not the right word, but fair, maybe, just?…vibe that clashes with the overall feel, and that comes out elsewhere strongest with regards to the Stark kids (less so Sansa…no Lady) Dany and Jon and, if the story is going where I kinda think it’s going, Rhaegar. It looks better on dead characters, if you get me. edit: meant to add, the only character that actually gets more interesting if there are secret Targlions is Tywin. The fact that, as you say, he would probably have a much clearer idea of which it would be, and how he deals with that. Or doesn’t.

The being too busy, maybe. But we’re in his head and he doesn’t even really think about it. But about it just being a comment…I’m trying to remember that book LF is not the Obvious Schemer that show LF was, instead is everyone’s slightly annoying but useful friend. Still, I think Tyrion is clear about seriously mistrusting him, though it’s usually throw away thoughts that show this. But imo the way we see Tyrion think generally, he would not think it an innocent comment, and he definitely keeps score. He takes the time to commit to memory every single man who responds to Cat’s call at the crossroads for revenge, and he seems to take it whet he can get it; he crushes the bard’s hand in the middle of a life and death struggle, for example. And these are mostly random people just doing their duty. But more to the point, he openly thinks about it, repeatedly. With LF, who is obviously more of a danger to him once he gets to KL, we get almost nothing. It’s out of character, imo. Not saying he should have necessarily acted yet, though imo that would more true to form, but we should definitely see him think about it…he knows LF made this ‘comment’ about a murder weapon after the attempted murder, to the victim’s mother. Whose subsequent mistreatment of him is directly and almost exclusively based on that, well, lie. That’s another thing, it’s not just a comment, it’s a lie, and Tyrion knows that. I’d say there’s not much chance normal Tyrion lets that go as innocent chatter, and his father gives him specific permission to spike LF’s head. Yet all he ever seems to think about LF and the knife is to wonder why. Odd.

Well, ironically, if Jon is king he can legitimize himself. I think it’s been ~ noted that King Bran is one of those ‘bigger notes’ or w/e phrase he used, ie something the show was accurate about. That said, that just means he’s the last king we’ll see, it doesn’t mean no one else ever sits the IT in the meantime. I don’t like the idea either, but I try to remind myself we haven’t seen George write it yet…a lot of his ideas seem weird in bullet form, it’s his writing that makes them something else. And, moreover, it’s becoming clearer that George does not feel himself a slave to earlier ideas. He could just change his mind again.

Consider me intrigued. As to the OP, nice catch. Someone else made the same observation a while back and it was one of the most interesting and informative observations I’d seen on the series in a while. Wish I could remember who to give them credit.

This doesn’t seem to be an unusual take, from what I’ve read. I don’t ascribe myself, but then I am apparently much more sympathetic to poor old JonCon than most, and maybe I just don’t want to see it. To me he is one of the characters most committed to doing what he thinks is right, and rectifying his wrongs, and I think his wrongs are WAY overblown by himself, if not others. The idea that he should have burned an entire town seems the stuff of fiction to me, in part because they don’t have traffic cams, there’s no certainty Robert is actually there, and in part because that uncertainty would likely remain after the town was burned to the ground; Robert is a large man, but a town of thousands will possess several large men, how would anyone know for certain which large man’s corpse was definitely Robert’s? Holding himself in such contempt because he didn’t do such a reckless, brutal and potentially pointless thing seems…dunno, very Catholic? I think Tywin is definitely ruthless enough to do something like that, but does that actually make it something he would do? I don’t think he’s that stupid, unless Stoney Sept were full of his offspring.

On the one hand, broadly speaking, Jaime might be the most…notorious, I think would be a better term, disparaged? Hate is strong and most people don’t seem to have that deep of an emotional investment in the Mad King or his death, but yes, Jaime is kind of the living representation of how much things aren’t like the Good Old Days. But it’s really all just about what the moniker says, killing Aerys. Like a handful of people know about Tysha and all but 2 were themselves complicit. The twincest thing is pretty salacious, but no more so than the kind of gossip about almost every noble of note we get glimpses of whenever George lets us see the small folk’s perceptions. We as readers know this one’s true, but they don’t get the books. That aside, yes, I like the formatting and I really enjoyed your inductive/deductive reasoning re: the prophecy. Not exactly sold, but then I almost never am by this kind of literary argument without knowing that the author thinks/writes that way, and imo George only kinda sometimes thinks/writes this way. He is imo a conflicted writer, which is part of the fascination.

Conservatism has always seemed a pretty bankrupt ideology to me, but the degree to which overt asshattery is being embraced, seemingly for itself, has definitely gone up several notches in the past decade.

I think another way of looking at is as emblematic. Ie, does it fit with LF’s character to do this kind of thing, to strike from afar for no apparent reason? Yes. Does it illustrate Joff’s character and weird family dynamic to murder a child on a kind of Freudian whim? Yes. These actions are accurate and powerful representations of their character. I think to a degree, beyond a general outline of bigger or in his mind more essential plot points, that’s where GRRM starts, that’s the soil for his garden, it’s character driven in the extreme and has a lot to do with character ~ symbolism and the plot is then tailored, or…what’s the gardening term? Pruned?…to fit. And he gets the vast majority of the fits exactly right, but I think that’s a secondary part of the process for him.

Davos. Kelly MacDonald.

Good points, though I think we’ve seen how the idea can still come from the crown, ie a suggestion that that would be likely to be accepted if asked for via intermediaries, but be framed to officially look like the crown agreeing/being merciful. In fact that’s what happens with Ned, until it doesn’t.

Next thought: I don’t really have a strong feeling whether/which of Tywin’s children are Aerys’, but I have a strong preference that if it has to be either Tyrion or the twins, I hope it’s the twins.

If I started threads, this is approximately how their titles would look. After like 8 afterthought edits.

It’s quite obviously all about the fall of house Caron. They are the Singers, this is their Song.

He suits so many, almost perfect for book LF if younger. High Sparrow or a Maester? editformyidiocy: Sean Evans.

He’s had reasons for quickly bailing on projects going back to his career-making role in Cracker…where he said he “didn’t enjoy the atmosphere”. This is his thing, it’s what…beyond terrific acting…he’s known for. edit: I think he’s even explained it as being more naturally a stage performer. Just looked up his filmography to confirm: of the 55 projects he has worked on, 52 were a year or less, 2 were over a year, 1 was almost 3. He’s also said that the True Detective format is his ideal non theatre concept in part because of its finite nature. edit2: to be clear, I have never seen Dr. Who and knew nothing of that particular ‘story’, fake or otherwise. I’m a fan of his work, though, and this seems to fit his pattern to a T.

This is incorrect, imo. His path would have been different. Even if we somehow discount Cersei’s statements, even if we think he himself was doomed to be caught, that would have resulted in dead Ned. But the Lannisters having Sansa…as a result of her choosing Cersei over Ned…were explicitly why he chose to kill his honour and plead guilty. He was perfectly resigned to his own death until Varys told him about Sansa. And Ned pleading guilty did, to the realm as a whole, make him seem much more guilty and therefore changed the dynamic in extreme. Had he just been killed it would have played very differently. edit: but I agree that if Sansa thinks this or anything like it, it’s not on the page. Maybe this is how he rationalized changing her from ~ villain to sympathetic in his own mind and, lol, has his own headcanon?

Well, it has at least served as a nice punching bag for conservatives since…conservatism. https://www.currentaffairs.org/2022/11/why-conservative-intellectuals-are-anti-intellectual

I think it would have been a much better solution in peacetime, but a commander in the field…to say nothing of a newly crowned monarch…seriously risks losing control if he responds to open defiance with half measures. Kind of a devil’s choice, really, and to be fair Robb seemed to understand that.

Probably not as strongly, but tend to agree here. Further, it’s maintained by Tyrion inexplicably not calling LF on it despite multiple opportunities and his father’s explicit empowerment to deal with LF/Varys as he sees fit. It’s a weaker point in the story, but no story this big will be without any weaker points.

The pardon thing would have sounded entirely fictional like 7 years ago.

Finished LeCarre’s Night Manager last night. Upholds my belief that he was one of the greatest writers of the later 20th/early 21st centuries who gets overlooked because he’s a genre giant. That said, his female characters in this were not imo as fully formed, but that might be unfair because there were so few and in such positions that sustaining their positions while keeping them sympathetic either requires a certain superficiality and/or another sub plot in a LeCarre, ie already wormholed with subplots. The latter is the way the show went, as well as turning the second protagonist into a woman and was the better for it. To his credit, LeCarre agreed with that opinion.

Is the gorge necessarily Riverlands? I get the thinking, but chokepoints aren’t necessarily exactly where the border is…for example the Vale starts well before you get to the GOTM. Like several days riding more. The North starts well before Moat Caitlin, and to the south the Westerlands start well before Deep Den. OTOH it’s hard to say exactly where the Prince’s Pass/Boneway’s first chokepoints are placed, they could well be right on the border. edit: this is a really semantic question I’m asking here, I realize, doesn’t really move the needle any, not meant to challenge your point at all, just got me pondering.

Ah, see, when not Ivory tower, too up close and personal, nice one.

Lysa Arryn. Next: Tom Hollander.

Hope I’m not breaking a rule, but he was my headcanon Stannis before HBO. Waaaay more than any other actor for any other role. I’d totally understand why a mega project like the show would be reluctant to cast a guy infamous for getting wanderlust pretty quickly, and Dillane is a fantastic actor who did a fine job.