Guessing Bran's Arc- A Hunt for Heart Trees

[jentario]

Well from The Princess and The Queen we now know that any arrow can kill a dragon, properly aimed.

Hmm. Have not gotten that yet. How was it?

[RumHam]

Hmm. Have not gotten that yet. How was it?

Different from the main series and Dunk and Egg. It's a historical text by a maester, so some people find it a little dry or to just be one big "info dump." Personally I enjoyed it.

[By the Old Gods Not theNew]

The relationship between blood and knowledge/memory is a very interesting aspect of weirwoods. It seems that blood soaked up by a weirwood records "All their songs and spells, their histories and prayers, everything they knew about this world" (see: Bran III ADwD). With this in mind it's worth noting that Nimble Dick was buried beneath the Weirwood at the whispers and thus his blood likely fed the weirwood as well as Brianne's, Ser Hyle Hunt's and Podrick Payne's seeing as how they dug a grave with their hands. It's also safe to assume the blood of Timeon, Shagwell, and ??? (the other bloody mummer) also seeped into the weirwood's roots. It would be interesting to included a rundown of all the people who's blood has fed a weirwood and what it might reveal to Bran.

[History of Westeros]

The relationship between blood and knowledge/memory is a very interesting aspect of weirwoods. It seems that blood soaked up by a weirwood records "All their songs and spells, their histories and prayers, everything they knew about this world" (see: Bran III ADwD). With this in mind it's worth noting that Nimble Dick was buried beneath the Weirwood at the whispers and thus his blood likely fed the weirwood as well as Brianne's, Ser Hyle Hunt's and Podrick Payne's seeing as how they dug a grave with their hands. It's also safe to assume the blood of Timeon, Shagwell, and ??? (the other bloody mummer) also seeped into the weirwood's roots. It would be interesting to included a rundown of all the people who's blood has fed a weirwood and what it might reveal to Bran.

I've been exploring this concept quite a bit.

Another place that bears consideration is White Harbor. That particular Heart Tree has seen a LOT of blood. Set aside the Slavers that were sacrificed and just consider that the Wolf's Den is a prison... that means hundreds and thousands of criminals have been executed, their blood flowing into the tree. If such blood is as tainted as it sounds, you'd think it would affect the tree.

Perhaps it does, that tree is "fat and angry". Maybe it's fat from all the blood, and angry because of all the hate and anger and rage that is common to criminals (especially those who earn the death penalty). This perhaps also explains why the Harrenhal tree is twisted with rage. The angry blood of Harren and his sons? The forced laborers who died building the castle? The blood sacrifices of Lady Lothston? Regardless, it certainly seems fitting that a cursed place like Harrenhal has a tree with such a terrifying face.

[therustman]

It was Pyg with Shagwell and Timeon, I just reread that chapter!

(sorry quote fail)

[Veltigar]

Bran's arc in tWoW:

1) chilling in the cave. Learning the way of the Greenseers and with flashbacks that show us both current events and things that happened in the past (mainly Harrenhal and WF centric imo. And probably some more intell on BR life as well).

2) An attack by the Others on the cave. They manage to break through the magical defenses.

3) Meera, Jojen, Hodor and Summer enter the Greenseer room. They pull Bran of his seat and prepare themselves to flee.

4) When they leave Jojen stays behind and places himself on Bran's Weirwood Throne. Touching goodbye's with both Jojen and BR are exchanged.

5) Bran, Hodor, Meera and Summer flee further underground. The WW massacre Jojen and BR and think they have neutralized the danger of the Greenseers.

6) Bran & Company find an exit and there they stumble on Coldhands. He takes them further away and we get more info about his time as the NK.

7) The Others now in complete control of the cave and with the CotF and the last greenseers dead prepare to enter Gorne's way and use it to bypass the Wall and get on the other side.

End of their arc in tWoW.

[One thing they might still do is help with Jon's resurection. But since we can't really know for sure when that happens, I have left it out]

[jon stark I]

I have to ask a question in Varamyrs pov if I am not mistaken we see a heart tree where wights were staying.So if BR works against the Others or if Others are not related to Old Gods and North why won't Others cut down the Heart trees or weirwood trees or any tree with a carved face on it?If I remember correctly GRRM said Others are misunderstood.Now there were dragons in Westeros in ancient times right?What if Azor Ahai was a dragonrider and the real war was between the dragons and Others?Others feel threatened and attack the dragonriders but smallfolk suffer too.After Others kill too many normal people Last Hero goes to the COTF begs them to end this.COTF gives Last Hero the weapons needed to destroy the Others and Dragons.Azor Ahai probably the last dragonrider fights alondside with the Last Hero they defeat the Others.Normal folk choose Last Hero as their lord and Azor ahai goes away with his dragons or dragon.Dragons are extinct in Westeros, Others are gone and Last Hero(Brandon the Builder) build the Wall with COTFs help.So my theory is this Long night and war of the dawn was like the time war in the Doctor Who series.Others felt threatened they attacked Dragonriders fought back but smallfolk normal pople suffered the most(in time war when Daleks and Time Lords fought entire galaxies and planets races were destroyed colleteral damage no side wanted to destroy them but fight spread to those places)So now Others feel Dragons again and thy return to finish the job they dtarted.Tooooo crackpot I know just wanted to share I know this isn't the place but are Heresy thread still on so maybe I can post it there?

[The Mother of The Others]

I've been exploring this concept quite a bit.

White Harbor. That particular Heart Tree has seen a LOT of blood. it certainly seems fitting that a cursed place like Harrenhal has a tree with such a terrifying face.

Odd that the Harenhal tree survived the dragonfire. Do we have anything on how or why it escaped their rage? Mayhaps the dragons sensed magic in it and gave it a wide berth because they were angry at the men of Harenhal and decided to save for later the testing of themselves against the more formidable opponent within the Weir?

Blood woke the trees in the first place, so they can probably handle blood-related adversity like absorbing the memories of evil men and the like. The demeanor of the bleeders who feed weirwoods might effect the trees' stature and well-being up to a point, but then I think at least 51% of the tree is still just a tree being a tree, so it's probably safe from being overly warped by the human psyches it absorbs no matter what glut of blood washes it .

I have to ask a question in Varamyrs pov if I am not mistaken we see a heart tree where wights were staying. So if BR works against the Others or if Others are not related to Old Gods and North why won't Others cut down the Heart trees or weirwood trees or any tree with a carved face on it? If I remember correctly GRRM said Others are misunderstood.Now there were dragons in Westeros in ancient times right? What if Azor Ahai was a dragonrider and the real war was between the dragons and Others?Others feel threatened and attack the dragonriders but smallfolk suffer too.After Others kill too many normal people Last Hero goes to the COTF begs them to end this.COTF gives Last Hero the weapons needed to destroy the Others and Dragons.Azor Ahai probably the last dragonrider fights alondside with the Last Hero they defeat the Others.Normal folk choose Last Hero as their lord and Azor ahai goes away with his dragons or dragon.Dragons are extinct in Westeros, Others are gone and Last Hero(Brandon the Builder) build the Wall with COTFs help.So my theory is this Long night and war of the dawn was like the time war in the Doctor Who series.Others felt threatened they attacked Dragonriders fought back but smallfolk normal pople suffered the most(in time war when Daleks and Time Lords fought entire galaxies and planets races were destroyed colleteral damage no side wanted to destroy them but fight spread to those places)So now Others feel Dragons again and thy return to finish the job they dtarted.Tooooo crackpot I know just wanted to share I know this isn't the place but are Heresy thread still on so maybe I can post it there?

Hey, I just read that chapter! It was a wildling village that housed the weirwood, the wights were freshly arrived on the scene at the end of the chapter, so they weren't shown co-existing with a face tree. They may have given it a wide berth, or snarled at it, recognizing its power the same way they recognized the warg in their presence, etc., we just don't see enough to know. No dragons in Westeros in ancient times as far as we know, which is what made the Targaryen dragons groundbreaking news for the realm. Fire and Ice do seem to be in a race to claim the continents, to be on the verge of meeting so soon after magic's resurgence. But you may have been overtaken by all the Dr. Who.

The moment Varymyr died and his consciousness ripped away to join his wolf, when he was still in transit it seemed like he was knocking on the door of every consciousness to check it for whether it was his pack or not..... the Weirwood tree seemed to briefly interact with his mind, the flock of ravens was scattered into the sky perhaps because they'd been warged in the past and retained some receptiveness and were thus aware of his warg mind searching theirs, and Ghost the warg character I think is also mentioned looking up at the sky to notice Varymyr's consciousness flitting by and snarl at it in warning. Neat stuff. It lends credence to the notion that the Ultimate endgame for greenseers might be to inhabit all the earth with their consciousness. Grow their scope until they can be everywhere for more than just that brief moment Varymyr experienced.

[History of Westeros]

Odd that the Harenhal tree survived the dragonfire. Do we have anything on how or why it escaped their rage? Mayhaps the dragons sensed magic in it and gave it a wide berth because they were angry at the men of Harenhal and decided to save for later the testing of themselves against the more formidable opponent within the Weir?

Blood woke the trees in the first place, so they can probably handle blood-related adversity like absorbing the memories of evil men and the like. The demeanor of the bleeders who feed weirwoods might effect the trees' stature and well-being up to a point, but then I think at least 51% of the tree is still just a tree being a tree, so it's probably safe from being overly warped by the human psyches it absorbs no matter what glut of blood washes it .

Harrenhal is gigantic, the godswood alone is 20 acres. I assume it wasn't burned because there's enough space between the walls and all those trees. Also it makes sense for Aegon to focus on killing Harren, his sons and the defenders. He wanted to conquer the castle, not destroy it. It's definitely possible that Aegon specifically wanted to not destroy religious symbols, as evidenced by the fact that he adopted the Faith at the end of his conquest. Godswoods are not particularly sacred to followers of the Seven but they matter enough to be very widespread.

As to your second comment, I think I agree in principle. I think of it like a human diet. The quality of the food you eat determines your health, mood, etc. If a tree drinks a lot of "bad blood" it could have an impact, but no matter what it's still a heart tree and part of the weirwood network, etc.

[Mithras]

White Harbour:

“ Glover led him along a darkened hall and down a flight of worn steps. They crossed the castle’s godswood, where the heart tree had grown so huge and tangled that it had choked out all the oaks and elms and birch and sent its thick, pale limbs crashing through the walls and windows that looked down on it. Its roots were as thick around as a man’s waist, its trunk so wide that the face carved into it looked fat and angry.” (ADWD)

Winterfell:

“The gods of Winterfell kept a different sort of wood…At the center of the grove an ancient weirwood brooded over a small pool where the waters were black and cold. "The heart tree," Ned called it. The weirwood’s bark was white as bone, its leaves dark red, like a thousand bloodstained hands. A face had been carved in the trunk of the great tree, its features long and melancholy, the deep-cut eyes red with dried sap and strangely watchful. They were old, those eyes; older than Winterfell itself. They had seen Brandon the Builder set the first stone, if the tales were true; they had watched the castle’s granite walls rise around them. It was said that the children of the forest had carved the faces in the trees during the dawn centuries before the coming of the First Men across the narrow sea.” (AGOT)

Harrenhall:

“Not knowing where else to hide, she made for the godswood....

... Through the leafy canopy she could see the bone-white branches of the heart tree. It looks just like the one in Winterfell from here. If only it had been... then when she climbed down she would have been home again, and maybe find her father sitting under the weirwood where he always sat.

Shoving her sword through her belt, she slipped down branch to branch until she was back on the ground. The light of the moon painted the limbs of the weirwood silvery white as she made her way toward it, but the five-pointed red leaves turned black by night. Arya stared at the face carved into its trunk. It was a terrible face, its mouth twisted, its eyes flaring and full of hate. Is that what a god looked like? Could gods be hurt, the same as a person?” (ACOK)

Is it me or the heart tree of White Harbour looks like a fat, angry Manderly? Same goes for the hateful heart tree of Harrenhal and the emo Stark face on the heart tree of WF.

[Iona]

Is it me or the heart tree of White Harbour looks like a fat, angry Manderly? Same goes for the hateful heart tree of Harrenhal and the emo Stark face on the heart tree of WF.

Well, now that you mentioned it, it could be that at least the WF and WH heart trees do share similar features as the lords who occupy the castles. It's like dogs and their owners resembling each other... :P

[History of Westeros]

Is it me or the heart tree of White Harbour looks like a fat, angry Manderly? Same goes for the hateful heart tree of Harrenhal and the emo Stark face on the heart tree of WF.

Definitely not just you. :)

The list is longer than that, too! Here's one of my faves that fits the theory:

It was the biggest tree Jon Snow had ever seen, the trunk near eight feet wide, the branches spreading so far that the entire village was shaded beneath their canopy. The size did not disturb him so much as the face... the mouth especially, no simple carved slash, but a jagged hollow large enough to swallow a sheep.

Those are not sheep bones, though. Nor is that a sheep’s skull in the ashes.

That's Whitetree, which just so happens to be near Craster's Keep. Not saying it matches Craster's face necessarily, but this tree is receiving sacrificial human offerings so near to Craster and his perhaps similar practice of giving up his sons.

There could be a genetic factor. GRRM says his genetics have a magic component. How to explain how certain families maintain traits over so many generations? Well, we have no real evidence, but perhaps the Heart Trees are a factor.

Which Great Houses have a "look"? Lannister, Stark, Baratheon: Yes. Martell, Greyjoy: Not really. Arryn? None that we've heard of, but limited evidence. Tully? Yes.

All of the yesses have a Heart Tree (Mel did just burn the one at Storm's End though), all the nos do not... It would be interesting to know if fatness runs in the Manderly family, or if the traditionally big-boned Crakehalls still have their tree. Are the Umbers always so large? The Mormonts seem to have a look. The Boltons might have pale eyes, (but that could easily just be Roose).

On the flip side, the Targs have their look and clearly the trees have no effect there, but incest might be enough to explain it. Any other counter examples? We don't have enough data on past generations in most cases.

The Harrenhal tree could be the reason for the curse, or a symptom of it (if there is a curse).

Side note: we have no known examples of a weirwood with any kind of happy, smiling face. Knight of the Laughing Tree's sigil is the closest we get, heh. Or perhaps the moment Theon thinks the Winterfell tree is about to laugh (during fake Arya's wedding to Ramsay), but that's probably a sarcastic kind of laughter.

[By the Old Gods Not theNew]

Jon describes some of the weirwoods in the grove where he said his vows as smiling, of course other's were screaming at him:

"The weirwoods rose in a circle around the edges of the clearing. There were nine, all roughly of the same age and size. Each one had a face carved into it, and no two faces were alike. Some were smiling, some were screaming, some were shouting at him."

[History of Westeros]

Jon describes some of the weirwoods in the grove where he said his vows as smiling, of course other's were screaming at him:

"The weirwoods rose in a circle around the edges of the clearing. There were nine, all roughly of the same age and size. Each one had a face carved into it, and no two faces were alike. Some were smiling, some were screaming, some were shouting at him."

Oh cool, I missed that. Thanks!

[Fire Eater]

"For a thousand years it [weirwood] has not shown a leaf. In another thousand it will have turned to stone, the maesters say. Weirwoods never rot."

the ribs of Nagga rose from the earth like the trunks of great white trees

I think it is possible that Nagga's bones are actually a grove of dead weirwoods. I think that is partly how Nagga's ribs became sacred, because they were originally heart trees, or just plain weirwoods.

[RumHam]

"For a thousand years it [weirwood] has not shown a leaf. In another thousand it will have turned to stone, the maesters say. Weirwoods never rot."

the ribs of Nagga rose from the earth like the trunks of great white trees

I think it is possible that Nagga's bones are actually a grove of dead weirwoods. I think that is partly how Nagga's ribs became sacred, because they were originally heart trees, or just plain weirwoods.

I dunno it seems unlikely to me. do a couple rows of petrified trees really look like ribs? What about the branches? Do any of the ribs have faces on them? It is interesting that the Ironborn are First Men but went their own way faith wise, but I think the reason may have been the lack of Weirwoods on the Isles. I think the more likely explanation is that they're just rocks that resembled a rib cage so the local people came up with a legend around it.

[Fire Eater]

I dunno it seems unlikely to me. do a couple rows of petrified trees really look like ribs? What about the branches? Do any of the ribs have faces on them? It is interesting that the Ironborn are First Men but went their own way faith wise, but I think the reason may have been the lack of Weirwoods on the Isles. I think the more likely explanation is that they're just rocks that resembled a rib cage so the local people came up with a legend around it.

I think the Ironborn's forebears killed the trees and cut off the branches, leaving only trunks.

[Arya kiddin']

I think the Ironborn's forebears killed the trees and cut off the branches, leaving only trunks.

But the weirwoods need fertile soil to take root. No weirwood could take root in the thin soil in the Eyrie, and we know the soil in the iron islands is not very fertile either.

I dunno it seems unlikely to me. do a couple rows of petrified trees really look like ribs? What about the branches? Do any of the ribs have faces on them? It is interesting that the Ironborn are First Men but went their own way faith wise, but I think the reason may have been the lack of Weirwoods on the Isles. I think the more likely explanation is that they're just rocks that resembled a rib cage so the local people came up with a legend around it.

Perhaps, or they could just be dragon bones.

[RumHam]

Perhaps, or they could just be dragon bones.

Yeah but people in universe know what dragonbone is. It's just like regular animal bone but black from the higher iron content. It's also a valued material for trade. I think it's safe to say the Ironborn know the difference between dragonbone and stone.

[Arya kiddin']

Yeah but people in universe know what dragonbone is. It's just like regular animal bone but black from the higher iron content. It's also a valued material for trade. I think it's safe to say the Ironborn know the difference between dragonbone and stone.

Oh yes, I forgot that bit. :lol: