Maithanet Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 See my post #288 in Bakker XXII. From that post: At the point of His resurrection, Kellhus is as close to the God as he’ll ever get. (This is the Holiest moment in the entire books. In our own theologies, it corresponds to the moment where Christ is Risen, or the Prophet ascends. Epic level. Whatever the metaphysics of the fictional setting allows: now is the moment.) So Kellhus reaches into the physical location of his soul (namely, his ribcage). His Holy Wife has just died according to Scripture; no two souls were ever closer. He reaches into the Outside whatever that means, grabs her heart (which is right “there”, whatever that means), and rips it out. Crazy? No more crazy than whole demons being summoned, which we know can be done because we’ve even had a POV from them. Clearly, stuff can move between Out- and Inside. I agree with this. I think it's just difficult for some people to accept because the previous miracles that Kellhus performed (finding the water in the desert, his prophecy with the Shrial Knights) all have a totally mundane explanation. So many boarders seem to be figuratively reaching into their ass to find a mundane solution, and all they can come up with is Kellhus literally doing the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I have no real inkling of whether it's true, but I think Fanayal fits with those last two. Yeah, but weird that in one scene she curses Fanayal three times and Kellhus once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Is this Fanayal? Or a hint that Moe, who lead the Dunyain Cishaurim is still alive? This is also the only one that she repeats twice. Moe is dead. I'm going on record now. Jesus, the dude is like the Bakkerite's R+L=J...except wrong. :cool4: (Although...possible parallels with Dune?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Buck Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Moe is dead. I'm going on record now. Jesus, the dude is like the Bakkerite's R+L=J...except wrong. :cool4: (Although...possible parallels with Dune?) I'll wager the opposite, on record now! Moe's alive, and he's Meppa at that! The Dune-parallels are strong with this one! We shall see who the greater predictorizer is, when the time comes. When the time comes... *realizes "the time" is like a year away minimum* *cries in the corner* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Moe is dead. I'm going on record now. Jesus, the dude is like the Bakkerite's R+L=J...except wrong. :cool4: Not sure what 'going on record' entails around here, but I'm thinking there's at least one character whom we think is dead coming back, and that's going on the record as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Not sure what 'going on record' entails around here, but I'm thinking there's at least one character whom we think is dead coming back, and that's going on the record as well. It means making emphatic statements that everyone will forget by the time the next book comes out because there's no tagging system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I'll remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I'll remember. That's what they always say. But I don't think that this is a sad enough moment to stick in your mind. But to make sure...have a nice, happy fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Big Moe is dead and not coming back. Little Moe doesn't make it to the end of TUC. Whether he's killed by Sorweel, Serwa, Akka, Mimara, Saccarees, or a Nonman is an open question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 What will you do for the sake of recollection? Would you perform humiliating thread necromancy? Would you heap atrocious prediction atop atrocious prediction until they are all that remain? Is that how Thread XXIII managed to get back to the top of the list????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 What languages would best help manipulate the onta? I was thinking maybe a variation on (IIRC) Mandarin, where slight alterations to a character create significant shifts in meaning? This seems better than English, where you'd have to drill down toward a singular meaning by piling on adjectives and context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Seems like any dead language or even math would be the best for preserving the meaning (to record and pass transmit knowledge of possible ways to alter the onta), while a language with a capacity for freedom of expression and nuance would be best for manipulating the onta. The best language to manipulate the onta should be music. You could have notation to maintain the meaning as long as the math was observed, but there's still a lot of room for expression and passion so you get to take maximum advantage of the Cish/Titirga effect as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 What languages would best help manipulate the onta? I was thinking maybe a variation on (IIRC) Mandarin, where slight alterations to a character create significant shifts in meaning? This seems better than English, where you'd have to drill down toward a singular meaning by piling on adjectives and context. How would Mandarin's writing system aid in spoken sorcery? O-o. Mandarin piles on adjectives like English too, it's an isolating language. A language that would be best for manipulating the onto would have high semantic density, which Mandarin (and English) don't. Something with a billion grammatical cases, like Hungarian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Machine code obviously. Or I guess qbit quantum computing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentRoamer Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 Does it really matter what languages now Kellhus can create a second innuteral? The second innuteral allows for meaning above and beyond the sum of its components. Adding additional innutterals is not so different from Q-Bit computing super positioning. That values can be positive, negative or both at the same time. I think mathematics may work well on the intellect based magic but does mathematics allow for emotional expression required for the Psukhe? There are some subtleties of language that cannot be expressed in mathematical form - but then there are abstractions that can only be described in mathematics. Try describing the physical process of magnetism accurately without resorting to mathematics - you may be able to do so but the words are meaningless in terms of the underlying mechanism (or Truth in the Bakkerverse.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Try describing the physical process of magnetism accurately without resorting to mathematics - you may be able to do so but the words are meaningless in terms of the underlying mechanism (or Truth in the Bakkerverse.) to be fair, nobody really understands the underlying mechanism of magnetics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentRoamer Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 True enough Unjon - I must concede that point. Maybe a bad example I used. A better example might be how mathematics can be used to describe higher dimensional planes. These can be clearly explained in mathematics but do not have a linguistic based analogue. I think we will see Kellhus adding additional innuterals to magnify complexity and power. I may be wrong. I just think that if Kellhus can achieve TTT then why not turn each of those thoughts into an innuteral? 29% through TTT now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I imagine ancient kuniuric sounds like finnish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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