Faint Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 So I take it the third series will be set decades after the second? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latan Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Kelhuss and all the Anasurimbor have Nonmen blood because of The Rape Omindelae, In the ancient before Kuniuri, when the daughter of a Anasurimbor Lord was supposedly raped by a Nonmen and gave birth to a son called "Twoheart", when this child proved fertile by impregnating a household servant his grandfather made him his heir. Over his 200 year life he warred and creater the states of Aorsi, Kuniuri, and another. In response to the incident when Nil ' Giccas refused to hand the culprit over to human justice, the king decreed all the Siqu to leave his kingdom and banned their script from use. Bringing an end to the so called Nonmen Tutelage of the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 This whole Serwe/heart/ass thing. I'm doing a reread, and I notice Inrau manages to poke his fingers through a ribcage, pull out a heart, and set it on fire, all with the Gnosis. Now I know Kellhus doesn't know any sorcery at this point, but these two events are too similar for me to write it off as coincidence. Not really sure what to make of it, I just hadn't seen anyone raise this point in all the heart-up-ass discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 This whole Serwe/heart/ass thing. I'm doing a reread, and I notice Inrau manages to poke his fingers through a ribcage, pull out a heart, and set it on fire, all with the Gnosis. Now I know Kellhus doesn't know any sorcery at this point, but these two events are too similar for me to write it off as coincidence. Not really sure what to make of it, I just hadn't seen anyone raise this point in all the heart-up-ass discussion.That's actually the first thing that came to my mind with the heart thing, but he didn't know the Gnosis and he still needed a place to hide the heart assuming that he took it out before he was cut down... Another thing I wondered is if Inrau did not use the Gnosis in that scene but what he did was more similar to Kellhus's 'miracle'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I remember a theory here that Inrau did to some degree use the Gnosis and was finally "corrupted" before the end.Doubt I can find it now. And I was pretty sure that he just threw a stream of his own blood-turned-fire at the Inchoroi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 It's definitely the Gnosis with Inrau surely? He struggles to remember the words, then it comes to him, he pokes the other Shrial Knight (not Sarcellus) in the ribs, pulls out his heart and there's something about it dripping lines of blood from his open ribcage, then tosses the flaming heart at the Synthese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Inrau scene is strange because Inrau using the gnosis there is contrary to how Akka describes to Kel how people are taught gnosis in TTT. Akka says that people have a minor mark for years from learning some weak nothing spells and casting them before they lean enough sorcery to defend themselves. This conversation was about how Kel would be defenseless to chorae for years (Akka not realizing at the time how quickly Kel coul get up the learning curve). Since Inrau was not marked he should not have been able to cast such a powerful spell. Either this is a continuity error or Inrau wasn't using gnosis an something else was going on (maybe with Onkis helping him to a miracle). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Crackpot: Inrau actually used Cishaurim magic. He's in great emotional stress so he goes blind and starts producing miracles... The fact that he fell off and died wasn't suicide, he just didn't know where he was going because he lost his eyesight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Either this is a continuity error or Inrau wasn't using gnosis an something else was going on (maybe with Onkis helping him to a miracle). Crackpot: Inrau actually used Cishaurim magic. He's in great emotional stress so he goes blind and starts producing miracles... The fact that he fell off and died wasn't suicide, he just didn't know where he was going because he lost his eyesight... Perhaps his years of devotion had made him capable of recollecting the divine in a way most mages, deemed blasphemers early on, can't manage. This is also coupled with the purity of his intent in that moment. It is weird that Inaru manages to [mentally] speak the inutterals, as even if he remembered the words one might think such dual thinking would have escaped him over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Since Inrau was not marked he should not have been able to cast such a powerful spell. Do we know that Inrau wasn't marked? I've just searched Inrau on my kindle version and couldn't find anything. The only thing I can think of that suggests he isn't is that after Maithanet's announcement of the target of the Holy war, Achamian should have wondered why Maithanet couldn't see him as well. We do know that Inrau never got as far as touching Seswatha's heart, as the Synthese notes he doesn't recognise him as 'Chigra' would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 What if the Inchoroi are the Inchoroi that are NOT wicked. These are the good ones the God saved and put on a ship he commanded they build. The wicked Inchoroi were all destroyed after God sealed the Ark. That's why the ship they're on is called the Ark. The first apocalypse is not the no-god, because that didn't wipe out the world. The first apocalypse is God destroying the Inchoroi's world for their wickedness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Do we know that Inrau wasn't marked? I've just searched Inrau on my kindle version and couldn't find anything. The only thing I can think of that suggests he isn't is that after Maithanet's announcement of the target of the Holy war, Achamian should have wondered why Maithanet couldn't see him as well. We do know that Inrau never got as far as touching Seswatha's heart, as the Synthese notes he doesn't recognise him as 'Chigra' would. IIRC, Akka thinks on how he helped Intau escape before he was damned. Inrau also states how those I the Few that are not marked are not damned and I think he spoke in a manner that made it clear he fell into that category. Also I think that it was mentioned how he would not have been accepted into the 1000 temples if marked and there are known other unmarked Few there that would have called him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTinyKittens Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 DaveSumm - In my opinion both events are miracles. Inrau was given divine power by Onkis while Kellhus used his own divinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Inrau also cast sorcerous wards after the heart trick. Was that also onkis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 DaveSumm - In my opinion both events are miracles. Inrau was given divine power by Onkis while Kellhus used his own divinity.So how would Inrau's miracle work? Alters his brain to think he learnt more of the Gnosis than he did? Because he clearly tries to remember the words, and he succeeds in forming wards later on. I hate to say it, but basically it looks like the rules on when you become marked weren't in place when he wrote this passage. Unless it turns out he is marked, but although I haven't found the exact passages that prove UnJon right, I fully expect to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Inrau also cast sorcerous wards after the heart trick. Was that also onkis? It's definitely possible. All souls exist in one Here, all minds are united. Inaru tries to remember, and touches Akashic Memory thanks to Onkis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I hate to say it, but basically it looks like the rules on when you become marked weren't in place when he wrote this passage. Unless it turns out he is marked, but although I haven't found the exact passages that prove UnJon right, I fully expect to. that's the conclusion I came to when I looked into it years ago. It's all in on of the Bakker threads from way back when and that was the consensus conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wik Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Kelhuss and all the Anasurimbor have Nonmen blood because of The Rape Omindelae, In the ancient before Kuniuri, when the daughter of a Anasurimbor Lord was supposedly raped by a Nonmen and gave birth to a son called "Twoheart", when this child proved fertile by impregnating a household servant his grandfather made him his heir. Over his 200 year life he warred and creater the states of Aorsi, Kuniuri, and another. In response to the incident when Nil ' Giccas refused to hand the culprit over to human justice, the king decreed all the Siqu to leave his kingdom and banned their script from use. Bringing an end to the so called Nonmen Tutelage of the North. Wait, is this true??? LOL I've re-read the 1st trilogy 2 times but the most recent was stilla few years ago....how could I have missed this? wowow I feel dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Fool Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 So how would Inrau's miracle work? Alters his brain to think he learnt more of the Gnosis than he did? Because he clearly tries to remember the words, and he succeeds in forming wards later on.I hate to say it, but basically it looks like the rules on when you become marked weren't in place when he wrote this passage. Unless it turns out he is marked, but although I haven't found the exact passages that prove UnJon right, I fully expect to. I figured that he "learned" some of the Gnosis without having actually spoken it. All the theory and whatnot, without having spoken the words to give him a mark of damnation. The Gnosis is like orgasm, and Akka had gotten Inrau all the way up to it but then Inrau started really thinking about baseball and decided not to go on with it. So, he had never burst his own cherry, so to speak, but he knew enough to be able to do it later in the heat of the moment, and that's what he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Wait, is this true??? LOL I've re-read the 1st trilogy 2 times but the most recent was stilla few years ago....how could I have missed this? wowow I feel dumb. It's only in the apendix in TTT afaik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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