King Tommen Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I find it funny that George pulls out the completely valid line saying that in 20 or 50 years, people won't care about how long it took to write the books, only about how good they are. I agree with him but if that's the case, then he can't be getting his panties in a bunch about the show getting ahead of him and spoiling the books ending for those reading right now. This is another thing that those reading the series in 20 or 50 years won't give a shit about. Can't have it both ways my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeddinGuest Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 D&D made a mini documentary about the making of the show narrated by the actor that plays Tywin ( should get lots of voice over work after this season). They work on it for basically 52 weeks a year (they joke 51/ 1/2 weeks). So it finally makes sense why they basically refuse to go past 7 seasons. THEY WILL BE BURNED OUT! To do this show proper they basically have no life. I'm sure they love it, and will make bank from it, but I can see why they don't want to have seasons of filibustering like George does. I also wonder if part of them thinks "hey we work our asses off 52 weeks a year, and George won't sit down and concentrate long enough to keep up his end of the deal." If this has never been said out loud to each other, I guarantee they think it. 52 weeks a year is a lot of work, and if one of your partners in the project isn't keeping up his end of the deal, I can see why they would push to complete it on their terms. But of course they're just a couple of hacks, and any random fan from here could have figured out how to get everything done in 3 months and spend the rest of the year sitting around throwing darts at a picture of Stannis... :P Anyway, at this point, while I can see GRRM getting TWOW out before the show catches up, I really doubt he'll have the whole story wrapped up. I think it's rather inevitable that the show will wind up spoiling the ending. I don't find it quite as shocking since I started with the show myself, though. Also, I will point out that it's interesting that GRRM does always manage to get the screenplay for his one episode a year released in time...that being said, I've done some amateur creative writing myself and I do understand that sometimes an author can know the main plot points and be committed to them, yet have trouble figuring out how to get them connected. All that being said, I get the feeling this "the show finishes with one ending, then GRRM eventually writes a completely different ending for the series" theory is based on wishful thinking and book-fan elitism more than anything else. You're asking GRRM to change HIS plans for the ending, that he's already shared with D+D, just so you can keep on proudly patting yourself on the back and looking down on those masses of Unsullied who THINK they know how the story ends, while "George has a special treat reserved for the REAL fans"! Face it, one day the tables will turn, and it'll be the show-fans who get to spoil the book-fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Face it, one day the tables will turn, and it'll be the show-fans who get to spoil the book-fans. I'm highly skeptical of book fans' ability to avoid spoilers in the long term (we're talking about years, most likely. The ending of major TV shows permeates pop culture in a way that isn't necessarily the case for books, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I find it funny that George pulls out the completely valid line saying that in 20 or 50 years, people won't care about how long it took to write the books, only about how good they are. I agree with him but if that's the case, then he can't be getting his panties in a bunch about the show getting ahead of him and spoiling the books ending for those reading right now. This is another thing that those reading the series in 20 or 50 years won't give a shit about. Can't have it both ways my friend. That's true. But then, as you say, the show passing the books shouldn't be a problem for him. My opinion though is that the longer he takes to write, the worse his product has become, and yes, I understand not everyone thinks the last two books were inferior to the first three, but I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 With the power on hindsight I believe George was screwed from the moment the Tv series began... he knows he doesn't write fast enough and knew there was a huge possibility that this problem would happen in the future. But I hope he allows D&D the opportunity to finish the series as the books are going to be finished even if that means ruining the ending for book readers because D&D have remained faithful to the books and the Tv series deserves to go down as one of the best ever.If not for all of those lovely side projects there might have been a very good chance we would be reading the Winds of Winter this year. I love the idea of the world book, but something like that should have been saved for when the series was finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tommen Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 That's true. But then, as you say, the show passing the books shouldn't be a problem for him. My opinion though is that the longer he takes to write, the worse his product has become, and yes, I understand not everyone thinks the last two books were inferior to the first three, but I do. Based on his comments, I think the show passing the books is very much a big deal to him. That's why he keeps suggesting completely unfeasible things like stretching out AFFC/ADWD to 3 seasons, going 10 seasons, doing prequels or for there to be a movie which he knows would take a long time to produce. He also wouldn't be commenting on the show being on him like a freight train and how he knows that he'll need to hurry to finish before they do. If all he cares about is the quality of the story and how the book saga will be viewed in 50 years time, then he should be totally fine with the television series ending whenever it's set to end. Being done in 7 seasons or done in 10 years will have zero impact on how the legacy of his books are viewed in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Based on his comments, I think the show passing the books is very much a big deal to him. That's why he keeps suggesting completely unfeasible things like stretching out AFFC/ADWD to 3 seasons, going 10 seasons, doing prequels or for there to be a movie which he knows would take a long time to produce. He also wouldn't be commenting on the show being on him like a freight train and how he knows that he'll need to hurry to finish before they do. If all he cares about is the quality of the story and how the book saga will be viewed in 50 years time, then he should be totally fine with the television series ending whenever it's set to end. Being done in 7 seasons or done in 10 years will have zero impact on how the legacy of his books are viewed in the future. It's too bad, but his own fault. Good grief, he did the HBO deal in 2007!! There were years there before the thing ever even got on TV...which he used apparently to f*** around procrastinating w/Dance. But, once Dance came out, he knew then if he was to keep pace with the show that Book 6 needed to come this year or at the latest Q1 next year. And, instead of working to make that happen, he instead put his time on interminable side projects, novellas and all kinds of other stuff. And now here he is, reduced to floating these unfeasible ideas to give himself another couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 It's too bad, but his own fault. Good grief, he did the HBO deal in 2007!! There were years there before the thing ever even got on TV...which he used apparently to f*** around procrastinating w/Dance. But, once Dance came out, he knew then if he was to keep pace with the show that Book 6 needed to come this year or at the latest Q1 next year. And, instead of working to make that happen, he instead put his time on interminable side projects, novellas and all kinds of other stuff. And now here he is, reduced to floating these unfeasible ideas to give himself another couple of years. If I recall correctly, GRRM was talking about them spending 2-3 seasons on AFFC/ADWD even at the start of the series, so in his fantasy projections I guess he should have had a few more years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 It's too bad, but his own fault. Good grief, he did the HBO deal in 2007!! There were years there before the thing ever even got on TV...which he used apparently to f*** around procrastinating w/Dance. But, once Dance came out, he knew then if he was to keep pace with the show that Book 6 needed to come this year or at the latest Q1 next year. And, instead of working to make that happen, he instead put his time on interminable side projects, novellas and all kinds of other stuff. And now here he is, reduced to floating these unfeasible ideas to give himself another couple of years. Couldn't have said to better myself. There should be only one book that matters to George right now, and it's the book that matters to all of his fans. He's not gona be remembered in a hundred years for editing Old Mars and while I enjoyed The Princess and The Queen I would probably have enjoyed The Winds of Winter about ten times more. I'm all for the the prequels, with the expecting of the Sworn Sword they've all been great, IMO. At the moment however it's time for GRRM to focus on the two books that matter. He knew about the tv show since 2007 like you said, so the fact that he's still taking his time writing the series is just ridiculous, IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 You know, it occurs to me that while George of course has spoken with D&D and knows that it'll probably be seven seasons, and that there won't be a gap in the series, he doesn't necessarily follow the interviews that they've done. So while he knows what's actually going on with the series, he doesn't know what's been made public knowledge, so he plays it safe and rolls out some old stock answers that basically amount to 'we're not sure'. I certainly don't think he's delusional or any of the other hyperbolic terms being thrown around. I'm not saying I think he'll get the books out in time, just that I'm pretty sure he's as aware as the rest of us of the time scale involved, probably more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordeast Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 And in year 2030... HBO Suit 1: Soooooo, Martin finished the Game of Thrones books. HBO Suit 2: There were books? HBO Suit 1: So says the intern. And a few people are still watching the show on demand and some discs are getting sold in bargain bins. HBO Suit 2: Enthralling. But can we get back to work on writing angry memos to the show runners who aren't including enough tits? HBO Suit 1: The tit memos can wait for a few minutes...The intern says that the series ended a bit differently from the show! HBO Suit 2: Oh noes! The American public are famous for demanding complete faithfulness in their screen adaptations. HBO Suit 1: Indeed. I still remember the Andersenian Legion riots that broke out after Frozen took liberties with the Snow Queen. HBO Suit 2: So we obviously have to act now! Or our Game of Throne bargain bin tales will drop by five percent if the book ending is different from the show ending because reasons! HBO Suit 1: The horrors! HBO Suit 2: OK, looking through the archives, apparently Martin informally told the show runners his thoughts about how the series would end back while the show was still being developed. HBO Suit 1: Ah ha! That obviously gives us grounds to sue and force Martin to change the ending of the books to be exactly like the show! HBO Suit 2: Um, how? HBO Suit 1: Don't worry, our lawyers have magic powers. This is 100% right. Also funny as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangover of the Morning Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Could it be possible that George is giving these weird answers not because he is delusional but as a way of avoiding negative publicity, especially now when the show is about to hit the screens again. If he and D&D flat out admitted that at this stage it is inevitable that the show will catch up with the books in couple years and thus we will for sure get a resolution to the saga from the TV show first, it would lead to a lot of negative responses and generally attention drawn to that topic rather than to the upcoming new season. So I wouldn't be surprised if they preferred not to address the issue for the time being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olibar Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Anyway, at this point, while I can see GRRM getting TWOW out before the show catches up, I really doubt he'll have the whole story wrapped up. I think it's rather inevitable that the show will wind up spoiling the ending..that being said, I've done some amateur creative writing myself and I do understand that sometimes an author can know the main plot points and be committed to them, yet have trouble figuring out how to get them connected.All that being said, I get the feeling this "the show finishes with one ending, then GRRM eventually writes a completely different ending for the series" theory is based on wishful thinking and book-fan elitism more than anything else. You're asking GRRM to change HIS plans for the ending... A couple of points here. I am not (maybe other are) arguing that the books and the show will have different endings. I'm arguing that the show will end at the Climax of the books, and that the Climax will come at the end of book 6. This could work because the plot threads dropped from the show will not need to be resolved there. I am a huge fan of both the show and the books, and consider them to be two completely different things with different goals. It is not necessary for me that they are like each other as long as each is true to the characters and world of the story. Secondly, I would argue that GRRM is in major trouble, and will not have a story that is remembered in 50 or 100 years, if he is still trying to make the plot fit his original outline. Truly memorable stories are the ones that follow characters, not plots, and if you force your characters to do things they would not in order to serve the plot, you end up with a story that doesn't feel true. Given how long it is taking him to write these final chapters, I am very much concerned that this is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 A couple of points here. I am not (maybe other are) arguing that the books and the show will have different endings. I'm arguing that the show will end at the Climax of the books, and that the Climax will come at the end of book 6. This could work because the plot threads dropped from the show will not need to be resolved there. Why would George R. R. Martin devote an entire final book to resolving minor side-plots (what side-plots, anyway)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndance Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Could it be possible that George is giving these weird answers not because he is delusional but as a way of avoiding negative publicity, especially now when the show is about to hit the screens again. If he and D&D flat out admitted that at this stage it is inevitable that the show will catch up with the books in couple years and thus we will for sure get a resolution to the saga from the TV show first, it would lead to a lot of negative responses and generally attention drawn to that topic rather than to the upcoming new season. So I wouldn't be surprised if they preferred not to address the issue for the time being. This. Think about it. We are getting nothing close to definitive. Anyone paying attention knows that the books are in danger of taking over the show, so GRRM has to at least acknowledge this. He knows his fans aren't delusional. So when he gets asked about it we get... 'I'm a bit worried but I think I'll still be able to finish the books and prevent the show from catching up'. This tells us nothing. Generic answer just to answer. He probably knows he is eff'ed here and so do D&D. If he came out and said it though that would be bad for everyone. GRRM would have a lot of pissed off people. D&D would prob also have a lot of the pure book fans pissed at them for not delaying the show, doing a prequel, even though it's completely unfeasible. Bad spot for everyone. So now we are left getting this answer for the next couple of years until they have no choice of admitting what is apparent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 He's not giving a vague, generic answer. He's giving a host of very specific options, in fact, as time goes on, the options are getting more and more specific, that would get him out of the pickle he got himself into. That to me speaks of his own personal demons and denial about the situation, nothing for the public or the fan base. I also don't think many book fans would or do expect D&D to delay the show. Though of course when it does finally pass the books it will be a big story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 We know how fast George can write, when he feels like it, because we already seen it with ACOK and ASOS. He has every right to do anything else, if he wants to, but it's ridiculous to expect that no-one will be disappointed because of that. ACOK and ASOS weren't written particularly quickly. GRRM has stated that he was writing ASOS when AGOT was published. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 ACOK and ASOS weren't written particularly quickly. GRRM has stated that he was writing ASOS when AGOT was published. There were 2/3 years between the first three books, and 5/6 years between the last two. He is most definitely getting slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 ACOK and ASOS weren't written particularly quickly. GRRM has stated that he was writing ASOS when AGOT was published. OT: You're a Warlord Chronicles fan! Great books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 There were 2/3 years between the first three books, and 5/6 years between the last two. He is most definitely getting slower. The first three books were published in '96, '98, and '00; however, he started writing A Game of Thrones in '91 and moved a lot of text from AGOT to ACOK and some to ASOS once it was clear his original plan of trilogy wasn't going to work.* He's getting slower yes, but he's always been fairly slow. The only time I think he was really writing fast was towards the end of ASOS. *AGOT was originally going to end with the Red Wedding as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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