Greens or Blacks, and who fought dirtier?

[LordStoneheart]

The Greens did not act on this as a whole, Aemond did this as a free agent. He killed his little nephew for an act his father nor he was apart of.

He was at Storm's End securing the Stormlands for Aegon II. His acts are the Green's acts.

[Wmarshal]

He was at Storm's End securing the Stormlands for Aegon II. His acts are the Green's acts.

No they are not, a specially seeing how he was only sent to secure SE.

[Barty]

By virtue of starting the war, killing supporters in the capital, and letting Viserys rot for days, it goes to the Greens by default, IMO. Alicent and Criston are rotting in seven hells for the deaths they brought on the realm.

Agreed. The Greens played with fire and were paid back in kind. My only issue is that Daemon should have just ordered the whole family killed. Then undoubtedly I'd consider the Blacks dirtier but I think it would have helped their cause more with Alicent, Helaena, and the children all dead.

Have you read the Rogue Prince?? The Green's fears were not unfounded - Daemon was the real power in Rhaenyra's camp and he was a power hungry sociopath.

[LordStoneheart]

No they are not, a specially seeing how he was only sent to secure SE.

Yeah, he was sent. If an envoy kills someone, that's on the hands of the employer.

Have you read the Rogue Prince?? The Green's fears were not unfounded - Daemon was the real power in Rhaenyra's camp and he was a power hungry sociopath.

Yes I have and I see no difference between him and Alicent in regards to power. They're both power-hungry, but at least Daemon was dutiful to Viserys. Alicent let him rot and moved against his wishes for her own gain.

[Barty]

Yeah, he was sent. If an envoy kills someone, that's on the hands of the employer.

Yes I have and I see no difference between him and Alicent in regards to power. They're both power-hungry, but at least Daemon was dutiful to Viserys. Alicent let him rot and moved against his wishes for her own gain.

dutiful?? f*cking your brother's daughter is dutiful?? Marrying her against his wishes is dutiful?

[Wmarshal]

Yeah, he was sent. If an envoy kills someone, that's on the hands of the employer.

Yes I have and I see no difference between him and Alicent in regards to power. They're both power-hungry, but at least Daemon was dutiful to Viserys. Alicent let him rot and moved against his wishes for her own gain.

To handle the Baratheons. No it isn't, if you hire someone to deliver something, and they kill someone on the way that is not on you.

Alicent wasn't a child murder, she just wanted what she believed was her children's rights, which if you look at Andal law was theirs. Daemon disobeyed his brother as well as bedded his daughter one way or another.

[gvewolf243]

Though i am Black supporter, they had of course their moments, like Blood and Cheese and etc., but i think, Greens on the whole, were more awful, plus they started the whole mess.

[James Arryn]

There were no active moral imperatives.

Winners redefine political morality. Laws of succession are more scorecard than rulebook.

Both sides had good and bad. It was largely decided by ICBMs, after all.

[Anath]

To handle the Baratheons. No it isn't, if you hire someone to deliver something, and they kill someone on the way that is not on you.

Alicent wasn't a child murder, she just wanted what she believed was her children's rights, which if you look at Andal was theirs. Daemon disobeyed his brother as well as bedded his daughter one way or another.

In fact, if you look at Andal, it was Rhaenys'. If you look at Andal, Baelon, Viserys, Rhaenyra, Aegon and the whole lot had anything.

They all had the IT to argue for only because Andal law was overlooked and the king's wishes took precedence. So, the king's wishes should take precedence here, as well. The king here was Viserys.

Diplomacy is kind of different to mail service.

[LordStoneheart]

To handle the Baratheons. No it isn't, if you hire someone to deliver something, and they kill someone on the way that is not on you.

Alicent wasn't a child murder, she just wanted what she believed was her children's rights, which if you look at Andal law was theirs. Daemon disobeyed his brother as well as bedded his daughter one way or another.

Yes it is. You're the catalyst and they're in your employ. If you get punched in the face by the dominoes pizza guy, I'm pretty sure you're going to blame both him and dominoes for employing such a cunt.

Alicent had no right to demand "rights" seeing as she was Queen consort and Viserys had made his wish clear. Her children's rights were nothing above Viserys' wishes. Their right was to be true to their father and the new Queen and they didn't.

[Wmarshal]

In fact, if you look at Andal, it was Rhaenys'. If you look at Andal, Baelon, Viserys, Rhaenyra, Aegon and the whole lot had anything.

They all had the IT to argue for only because Andal law was overlooked and the king's wishes took precedence. So, the king's wishes should take precedence here, as well. The king here was Viserys.

Diplomacy is kind of different to mail service.

I actually believe that, and wished Rhaenys took her granddaughters and waged war.

And in the end Alicent can still argue her children have a claim, as he did, and that is why people in todays westeros still are divided on who was right and wrong in that war.

[James Arryn]

Yes it is. You're the catalyst and they're in your employ. If you get punched in the face by the dominoes pizza guy, I'm pretty sure you're going to blame both him and dominoes for employing such a cunt.

Alicent had no right to demand "rights" seeing as she was Queen consort and Viserys had made his wish clear. Her children's rights were nothing above Viserys' wishes. Their right was to be true to their father and the new Queen and they didn't.

But who won the by-election?

[Wmarshal]

Yes it is. You're the catalyst and they're in your employ. If you get punched in the face by the dominoes pizza guy, I'm pretty sure you're going to blame both him and dominoes for employing such a cunt.

Alicent had no right to demand "rights" seeing as she was Queen consort and Viserys had made his wish clear. Her children's rights were nothing above Viserys' wishes. Their right was to be true to their father and the new Queen and they didn't.

I mean pretty sure the only one that is going to be arrested in this scenerio is the Dominoes pizza guy unless the Dominoes was run by a secret order bent on having customers punched in the face.

The fact Stannis who descends from Rhaenyra believed Aegon had a right to the throne shows other wise.

[LordStoneheart]

I mean pretty sure the only one that is going to be arrested in this scenerio is the Dominoes pizza guy unless the Dominoes was run by a secret order bent on having customers punched in the face.

The fact Stannis who descends from Rhaenyra believed Aegon had a right to the throne shows other wise.

Stannis obviously doesn't know history very well.

[HexMachina]

dutiful?? f*cking your brother's daughter is dutiful?? Marrying her against his wishes is dutiful?

Marrying her against her wishes? What? Rhaenyra was infatuated with her Uncle Daemon. It wasn't against he wishes at all.

Both sides fought equally dirty, with treachery, lies and deceit. Example for the Blacks - Blood and Cheese, the attempt on Nettles

Example for the Greens - killing Luke when he was just an envoy, poisoning one of the Two Betrayers (however well intentioned it was, its still deceitful, which is the question at hand) Aegon II taking Dragonstone and.killing his half-sister through treacherous means.

[Anath]

I mean pretty sure the only one that is going to be arrested in this scenerio is the Dominoes pizza guy unless the Dominoes was run by a secret order bent on having customers punched in the face.

The fact Stannis who descends from Rhaenyra believed Aegon had a right to the throne shows other wise.

With Stannis' disgust for those who are greedy for what belongs to their older siblings, I doubt Alicent's greed was the thing that made him think Aegon was the king. I'd say it was the fact that he lived in a Targaryen male-first world where maesters' accounts of Rhaenyra have also been slanted to make her look worse than she was because the very idea of a female ruler was disturbing.

As to the dirty fighting, I'd say that the Greens started fighting dirty first figuratively - with the old man at the Council - and then quite literally, with their treatment of Viserys' body.

[Wmarshal]

With Stannis' disgust for those who are greedy for what belongs to their older siblings, I doubt Alicent's greed was the thing that made him think Aegon was the king. I'd say it was the fact that he lived in a Targaryen male-first world where maesters' accounts of Rhaenyra have also been slanted to make her look worse than she was because the very idea of a female ruler was disturbing.

As to the dirty fighting, I'd say that the Greens started fighting dirty first figuratively - with the old man at the Council - and then quite literally, with their treatment of Viserys' body.

Stannis comments that she had no right what so ever, and that it was Aegon's throne, and the world isn't completely one sided. Arys, a far from learned man, knows both sides of the argument well.

[Lady Flandrensis]

TPATQ has served to solidify my general hatred for all Targaryans. Even though Allicent (only a Targ by marriage, but fits the family well) started it and I agree she sucks, and the B&C sucked, and killing the smallfolk sucked, I can't pick a side, they're both awful.

[GallowsKnight]

Another thing about what Stannis said is that even if Rhaenyra was the legal heir, she most likely sired bastards with Harwin Strong. Which the Rogue Prince suggests would be a treasonous act against her father if she was guilty.

Stannis who has probably spent months thinking (and possibly researching) about bastards, likely knows her children looked nothing like the supposed father.

So if Rhaenyra committed treason, she's likely attainted as heir.

[LordStoneheart]

Another thing about what Stannis said is that even if Rhaenyra was the legal heir, she most likely sired bastards with Harwin Strong. Which the Rogue Prince suggests would be a treasonous act against her father if she was guilty.

Stannis who has probably spent months thinking (and possibly researching) about bastards, likely knows her children looked nothing like the supposed father.

So if Rhaenyra committed treason, she's likely attainted as heir.

Something her father would have none of hearing and kept Rhaenyra as heir despite the rumor.