Roose Bolton is garbage, and a clown.

[White Ravens]

But, to be honest? Who else? He's Robert's heir. Robert, although not a favourite of mine, won the throne and started the baratheon line, which is the one ruling Westeros right now. So, yes, Stannis deserves the throne. Being a good or a bad King is irrelevant: the IT is his because Robert left no heirs.

Dany and Aegon deserve it? Maybe, their claim is just to me: the Baratheons took it away from them and if they have the ways to take it back by conquest, go ahead.

Cersei deserves it? Not at all. She has already proven to be incompetent.

You may or may not make some good points about who might make a worse King than Stannis, but what does that have to do with whether Roose Bolton is garbage, or a clown?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

You may or may not make some good points about who might make a worse King than Stannis, but what does that have to do with whether Roose Bolton is garbage, or a clown?

I honestly don't know. I was just replying and I don't even know how Stannis was first mentioned but it is known that every thread evolves into that, eventually. We might be discussing Tormund's member but at the end, we end up posting about how Stannis is the best suitable King and Dany is crazy. And rape. It's always rape.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

I honestly don't know. I was just replying and I don't even know how Stannis was first mentioned but it is known that every thread evolves into that, eventually. We might be discussing Tormund's member but at the end, we end up posting about how Stannis is the best suitable King and Dany is crazy. And rape. It's always rape.

OMG!! I almost thought that said Tommen's member, WOW. And damn, I wonder if that's why they won't use the phrase in the show so far, cause well, much different meaning. :eek:

[Ramsay Gimp]

So not one survivor noticed Roose stabbing Robb in the heart? Not one rumour floated about? Not one northern Lord realised Roose is the only one with his army intact? That he was rewarded after a wedding he was at in which his king died? What? Was he rewarded for commanding his 3500 men to down arms?That beggars belief

The truth seems to be everyone knows and Roose is trying to pull it off brazenly

"His Grace ordered me to hold Harrenhal, which is where me and my men were when news of the RW arrived. My marriage to Walda is likely what saved me and allowed me to maintain good relations with House Frey."

Could anyone really prove this wrong, other than some survivors who would have to a. make it all the way home and b. convince someone who actually matters to listen to their story

As long as Roose has a story which can be plausibly believed (as in no werewolves, etc), and has the most power, the Northmen just have to suck it up. He doesn't have to convince everyone in their hearts that he's innocent, he just can't flaunt his involvement like the stupid Freys

Fact is, in ADWD plenty of people spew vitriol at the Freys for it but almost none is spewed at Roose.

[Frey Pie]

"His Grace ordered me to hold Harrenhal, which is where me and my men were when news of the RW arrived. My marriage to Walda is likely what saved me and allowed me to maintain good relations with House Frey."

Could anyone really prove this wrong, other than some survivors who would have to a. make it all the way home and b. convince someone who actually matters to listen to their story

As long as Roose has a story which can be plausibly believed (as in no werewolves, etc), and has the most power, the Northmen just have to suck it up. He doesn't have to convince everyone in their hearts that he's innocent, he just can't flaunt his involvement like the stupid Freys

Fact is, in ADWD plenty of people spew vitriol at the Freys for it but almost none is spewed at Roose.

Fact is that at the moment Roose is powerful. But we already know of thousands of men looking to kill him for various reasons. There are men who survived the red wedding and the war in the south. There are northern prisoners who were in the hall when Roose killed Robb. Are these to be hostages all their lives with no contact with their family? How about rooses own men? 3500 guys going to keep quiet? Ramsay not going to boast about how he and daddy brought down an 8000 year old house? The Blackfish? The surviving Riverlords such as jason Mallister? Killing one man can be kept a secret. Killing thousands cannot. How about the thousands of Freys? Roose can't just walk away from this with a sly wink and whisper "you never saw me"

And I'm not using this to say he's an idiot. This is one of the reasons why I believe his game is not to get and keep Wardenship of the North. It doesn't fit his character in my opinion in the same way the green fork doesn't

[LordStoneheart]

Would you rather read about some uninteresting villain who wasn't cruel at all?

Actually, in a series with well-rounded characters in the political game, I'd prefer a villain who wasn't such a caricature.

[Michael Herman]

He won one battle, which was planned by the Freys, why would anyone really like him?

[MyaStoned]

Yeah, he is. I don't understand why there is this new-found affection of him on the forums. Its so perplexing. The guy is a disgusting rapist, he most likely flays people(though there is no proof of this to be fair), he is obviously a villain and hes not even that great of a villain to be honest. He has not won a single battle in the series, and the sum total of his accomplishments add up to him getting his ass kicked at the green fork, sending the northern infantry to their deaths, and betraying his 16 year old king at a wedding. Great.

So what is it? Why the Roose love? Are you guys just like, the ultimate asoiaf hipsters?

Agreed. Bolton is a coward and a bully and a torturer. A rapist opportunist who never dared say peep while Ned lived. Tywin's private councils do not indicate he was impressed by him either, and whatever else he is, Tywin is a good judge of who should be taken seriously (Stannis and Ned, tho he only gets to speak of the latter postmortem) and who shouldn't (Renly, Roose, Cersei). Tywin's deciding the RW was necessary is a high compliment to Robb, remember. But yea Roose sucks. Remember the Boltons are basically (along w/ the Freys) used as fall guys, given an overly sweet deal the Lannisters know they won't get to enjoy for long.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

He won one battle, which was planned by the Freys, why would anyone really like him?

In the SOS epilogue, Merrit Frey specifically tells us that Roose and Lame Lothor did all the planning for the Red Wedding.

[Mark Antony]

He won one battle, which was planned by the Freys, why would anyone really like him?

That wasn't a battle. It was cowardly treason

[Frey Pie]

He won one battle, which was planned by the Freys, why would anyone really like him?

Your first comment is correct but his one win came at Harrenhal

[King Brandon Ice Eyes]

About battles: when Roose had to take a castle he did without losing a single man. The Green Fork was a win-win situation for him, even GRRM says so. Not saying you have to agree with the author but here is his comment: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Roose_Bolton

Otherwise, during the Wot5K, Roose is not interested in winning wars because he doesn't have to.

As Lady Fevre Dream said Roose Bolton and Lothar Frey planned the RW. Walder Frey and Tywin Lannister only nodded in approval and the former took the fall. Boltons are not blamed for the RW except by the Brotherhood (LS) and Wyman based on his suspicions only. Roose was not an escape goat by any means in my opinion. Rumors exist everywhere. The crown is also blamed by the Red Wedding by sparrows. The counsel discuss it in a AFFC.

Agreed. Bolton is a coward and a bully and a torturer. A rapist opportunist who never dared say peep while Ned lived. Tywin's private councils do not indicate he was impressed by him either, and whatever else he is, Tywin is a good judge of who should be taken seriously (Stannis and Ned, tho he only gets to speak of the latter postmortem) and who shouldn't (Renly, Roose, Cersei). Tywin's deciding the RW was necessary is a high compliment to Robb, remember. But yea Roose sucks. Remember the Boltons are basically (along w/ the Freys) used as fall guys, given an overly sweet deal the Lannisters know they won't get to enjoy for long.

All the bad guys in the story and almost every lord are bullies and torturers. Roose is not a coward IMO. You don't keep unpredictable and psychotic people like the Brave Companions and Ramsay in check if you don't have balls.

Tywin is not that great judge of character IMO. Renly was a force to be reckoned, he could have won the war; he thinks Tyrion is a moron or at best possess a "low cunning", Tyrion who is well versed in History, Mechanics, Politics, etc; he doesn't believe Tyrion had the guts to kill him; he trusts Littlefinger to some degree and Varys as well and don't see them as big threats; he thinks Oberyn can be tamed with a seat in the Council, he underestimates Robb at first. And IIRC he never says anything that bad about Roose. Just that he is a cautious man (which is a compliment, specially coming from Tywin) and would not risk a daring move against his forces again. Considering how fucked the Lannisters were in that situation Roose was indeed the least of their problems.

[Ramsay Gimp]

The obsession with winning battles is puzzling. I don't think any Roose fans are claiming he's a brilliant battlefield commander (though I do think he's better than just the Green Fork would suggest)

[The Mother of The Others]

The more battles lost, the more dead bodies to rise later as his zombie thralls. It's a zero sum game. Zombie armies don't just materialize when you snap your fingers. You have to plant the seeds for your future zombie army by getting dudes killed in droves before the armageddon.

[Rickeen Stark]

He has some seriously funny quotes. And, come on, slapping down Ramsay ups anyone, even Roose.

[LordStoneheart]

He has some seriously funny quotes. And, come on, slapping down Ramsay ups anyone, even Roose.

Roose made Ramsay, and the how prevents him from having any ups, really..

[Rickeen Stark]

He's not great, but he verbally bitch slaps Ramsay and there is nothing he can do!

[Lady of Lemoncakes]

So what is it? Why the Roose love? Are you guys just like, the ultimate asoiaf hipsters?

Awww, you say asoiaf hipsters like it's a shameful thing...

He's a horrible person, a horrendous father and is completely sadistic yet I still like him. He's one of my favourites. He has strong black humour elements about him (bringing the skin to the RW) plus there are some awesome discussions to be had and theories regarding books, etc.

He's a morally black character, and is that really a bad thing? Why must our villains be complete brilliant, 100% intelligent types? Why must they have a Walter White-ish 'everything i did, i did it for my family' line at the end of every sentence they mutter?

He's refreshing, funny, entertaining. I disagree with him being a 'caricature'- his emotional responses to situations are incredibly personalized and unique, that they go past any gimmicky facade and I actually find to be rather fascinating. Why would someone burn a book? Why would someone bring skin to people he is going to watch be murdered? Why would someone tell their son's torture subject incredibly disturbing stories? Why would someone's first glimce of fear be at a particular time and for a certain person? For all of the reasons why someone would spare a child's life, why would it be because of his eyes? Why would someone only have one Lord have one son? A character that provokes that much thought wouldn't be viewed as a caricature imo.

I do think it's kind of unfair that people who like the Boltons are getting labelled as serial killer fanatics- and somehow, i do not see the Lannisters, Greyjoys or Targaryens getting it as well. Oh, I forgot. They are so complex and morally grey.....

[MyaStoned]

About battles: when Roose had to take a castle he did without losing a single man. The Green Fork was a win-win situation for him, even GRRM says so. Not saying you have to agree with the author but here is his comment: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Roose_Bolton

Otherwise, during the Wot5K, Roose is not interested in winning wars because he doesn't have to.

As Lady Fevre Dream said Roose Bolton and Lothar Frey planned the RW. Walder Frey and Tywin Lannister only nodded in approval and the former took the fall. Boltons are not blamed for the RW except by the Brotherhood (LS) and Wyman based on his suspicions only. Roose was not an escape goat by any means in my opinion. Rumors exist everywhere. The crown is also blamed by the Red Wedding by sparrows. The counsel discuss it in a AFFC.

All the bad guys in the story and almost every lord are bullies and torturers. Roose is not a coward IMO. You don't keep unpredictable and psychotic people like the Brave Companions and Ramsay in check if you don't have balls.

Tywin is not that great judge of character IMO. Renly was a force to be reckoned, he could have won the war; he thinks Tyrion is a moron or at best possess a "low cunning", Tyrion who is well versed in History, Mechanics, Politics, etc; he doesn't believe Tyrion had the guts to kill him; he trusts Littlefinger to some degree and Varys as well and don't see them as big threats; he thinks Oberyn can be tamed with a seat in the Council, he underestimates Robb at first. And IIRC he never says anything that bad about Roose. Just that he is a cautious man (which is a compliment, specially coming from Tywin) and would not risk a daring move against his forces again. Considering how fucked the Lannisters were in that situation Roose was indeed the least of their problems.

There is no bigger coward in the story, not even Samwell. Tywin even says privately, "Bolton does not concern me; he is a wary man." Read: coward. His two "wins" both opportunistically employ treachery. And keeping people in line by their knowing you'll ruthlessly use torture isn't much of a trick and has nothing to do with bravery.

[Lone Star Pate]

The only thing I don't like about McElhatton's portrayal is that he apparently has a beard in season 4

I noticed both him and Ramsay were sporting facial hair in the previews for the upcoming season. Most of the Northmen on the show are beaded. Maybe it's to emphasize their cultural similarities to the other Northern houses that they have stewardship over now.