Lee-Sensei Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I don't think that says a lot about his set of morals and ideals, but more his personality. Benjen, Bran, Sansa and Jon don't seem to have the wolf's blood either. Sansa, Jon and Bran were raised by Ned and Cat. A Tully and Ned "High as Honor" Stark. You have a point about Benjen, but to balance it out both Brandon and Lyanna had it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Sansa, Jon and Bran were raised by Ned and Cat. A Tully and Ned "High as Honor" Stark. You have a point about Benjen, but to balance it out both Brandon and Lyanna had it. But it is more than how they are raised. Wolf's blood means that a person has a temper. It wouldn't matter where he was raised he doesn't have the wolf's blood, because he isn't born that way. He has more ice for blood. The Starks, I think, can be categorized in two categories. Those who have wolf's blood - a temper - and those with ice for blood - calmer. There is more to them then being icy and hotblooded, but I hope you understand what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chatty Duelist Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 The original (Royal) Starks were ruthless, vindictive and unforgiving. /thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 The original (Royal) Starks were ruthless, vindictive and unforgiving. /thread. My thoughts exactly. I hardly doubt that they would have been called Kings of Winter if they themselves didn't embody the North itself. Ruthless, cold, harsh and unrelenting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry_dresden Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 The Umbers are rapists apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joluoto2 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Yes, because Ned Stark was honorable people think all Northerners are honorable. That's not true even for House Stark. We know Rickard, Lyanna and Brandon were not exactly honorable people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry_dresden Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 how was rickard stark dishonorable??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lointain Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 It is good to remember that "honour" is a very flimsy concept. What is an honourable behavior for some, isn't for others and, of course, this aplies to all our lovable westerosis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Golden Wolf Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I think we should not differentiate Ned so much from the other Starks as we do not truly know them. We only get inferences into the natures of those past Starks but nothing substantial. Of course those Starks who were instrumental in the initial domination and subjugation of the North would seem more brutal than need but we would only be looking at a few Starks out of the many that a supposed 8000 year dynasty spawned. Also Ned's personality was impacted by him being the second son. In comparison to Brandon who was charming, dashing, and reckless Ned may have subconsciously forced himself to be the quiet responsible one. We see time and again Ned saying that these duties and responsibilities were meant for Brandon and how lost he feels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jory Cassel Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Ned's more Arryn then Stark IMO. Lee-Sensei is the right on this. With such striking differentiation from the rest of the Stark family tree, Ned certainly must have been influenced by Jon Arryn who after all was raising him for 10 years, and later was the only father figure he had. To say he didn't influence Ned is simply wrong. I did not see anyone claiming Jon Arryn did not influence Ned, and that would be an absurd thing to say. But more Arryn than Stark? Repeatedly does he state he is living by the northern way to do things, and his uncompromising attitude distinguishes him from Jon Arryn; or can anyone see him brokering an alliance with the man who butchered Rhaenys and Aegon, who violently sacked KL? The last two houses that fought for Robb Stark and his memory were not up north. Last time I checked Lyanna Mormont stated that the Mormonts acknowledged no King but the King in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I did not see anyone claiming Jon Arryn did not influence Ned, and that would be an absurd thing to say. But more Arryn than Stark? Repeatedly does he state he is living by the northern way to do things, and his uncompromising attitude distinguishes him from Jon Arryn; or can anyone see him brokering an alliance with the man who butchered Rhaenys and Aegon, who violently sacked KL? Last time I checked Lyanna Mormont stated that the Mormonts acknowledged no King but the King in the North. No one is saying that Ned is like Jon, but more like he holds the ideals of an arryn even more so than Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I don't see this super strong bond of loyalty at all. In fact they have suffered more betrayals so far than any Lord paramount House. Roose, Ramsay, Rickard Karstark, Lady Dustin, the Umbers, Arnolf Karstark...how many more examples do you need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I did not see anyone claiming Jon Arryn did not influence Ned, and that would be an absurd thing to say. But more Arryn than Stark?Repeatedly does he state he is living by the northern way to do things, and his uncompromising attitude distinguishes him from Jon Arryn; or can anyone see him brokering an alliance with the man who butchered Rhaenys and Aegon, who violently sacked KL? Last time I checked Lyanna Mormont stated that the Mormonts acknowledged no King but the King in the North. several kilometers from an enemy army....as soon as Stannis Baratheon came near she bent the knee.The only place were there was still a fight in Robbs name was the River Lands. Blackwoods and and Tullies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry_dresden Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I don't see this super strong bond of loyalty at all. In fact they have suffered more betrayals so far than any Lord paramount House. Roose, Ramsay, Rickard Karstark, Lady Dustin, the Umbers, Arnolf Karstark...how many more examples do you need? Umbers? Arnolf? Can you explain better? We know more about the northmen though. During RRs, I don't recall hearing of any northern house that sidedwith the Aerys. Contrast this with Arryn, Tully and Baratheon where loyalty to the LP houses was a bit more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djinn Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Because Northern propaganda says so. If you don't behave, the Starks will personally gut you and hang your entrails in a heart tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Monkey Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I don't see this super strong bond of loyalty at all. In fact they have suffered more betrayals so far than any Lord paramount House. Roose, Ramsay, Rickard Karstark, Lady Dustin, the Umbers, Arnolf Karstark...how many more examples do you need? I don't believe that the Northmen have a super strong bond of loyalty, but I think that most of these betrayals are tied to the fact that House Stark itself is in ruins. Their adult members were all either dead or miles away in the South, their heirs were apparently dead or in captivity, and they were beset on all sides by external enemies. They arguably had one of the worse positions of all the other great houses in terms of family survival; Ned apparently had no brothers, nieces, or nephews and his children didn't seem to have any cousins or anything; Ned, Catelyn, and their five children were basically it and once they started dying or being captured their family was extremely vulnerable in a way that the Lannisters, Tyrells, Freys, etc. weren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 A little question. Isn't the Northern Conspiracy theory kind of similar to the scheming that happens in the South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 It rather is, but it's okay, because if you're a scheming backstabber for the Starks, you're automatically honorable. I think the distinction someone made between loyalty and honor was a good one, by the by. One can be extremely loyal and also extremely dishonorable in your conduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jory Cassel Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 No one is saying that Ned is like Jon, but more like he holds the ideals of an arryn even more so than Jon. Jon Arryn, however, is the only Lord who can serve as a point of comparison, I don't recall any other Arryns one could measure Ned against. several kilometers from an enemy army....as soon as Stannis Baratheon came near she bent the knee.The only place were there was still a fight in Robbs name was the River Lands. Blackwoods and and Tullies. Lyanna certainly never bent her knee, and if you have a quote that Alysane did, let's hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry_dresden Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 in RRs alone, I know that the Goodbrooks, Rygers, Darrys and Mooton were not loyal to Hoster Tully. Neither was Frey though they did not side with the Aerys. Though Freys were very disloyal later on. In fact, you guys are counting Rickard, Arnold and Roose and Ramsay as differents. Since Frey is a rl house, if we judge them to their loyalty to House Tully who are the LP of rls than isn't the list of disloyal people to House Tully way higher than anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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