[TWOW Spoilers] NEW Chapter Discussion - "Mercy"

[Newstar]

I might as well post this quote here, as well, since this is the chapter's 'official' discussion thread.

“Seven hells, this place is damp,” she heard her guard complain. “I’m chilled to the bones. Where are the bloody orange trees? I always heard there were orange trees in the Free Cities. Lemons and limes. Pomegranates. Hot peppers, warm nights, girls with bare bellies. Where are the bare-bellied girls, I ask you?”

“Down in Lys, and Myr, and Old Volantis,” the other guard replied. He was an older man, big-bellied and grizzled. “I went to Lys with Lord Tywin once, when he was Hand to Aerys. Braavos is north of King’s Landing, fool. Can’t you read a bloody map?”

I guess this ties in with the "There are no lemon trees in Braavos" theory questioning Dany's memories of growing up there.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

Is Arya even aware that Sansa married Tyrion? Or does she even realize that the Bloody Hand is about those shenanigans? Seems to me like shes not really paying attention. Besides, shit just got hella dark in Arya's world. She isnt going to be Mercy after the play is over. She'll make a break for it after her scene.

Hey good point.

She hears that Sansa married the Imp and killed Joffrey by turning into a wolf with wings. Arya dismisses the story because Sansa only knew "songs not spells" but she does believe that Joffrey is dead.

Let's not forget that Arya has been listening in on "sailor's stories" about KL. She knows that the "Black Bastard" is Lord Commander, she knows that the war is done basically. She's not completely in the dark from Westeros news.

Pretty sure she knows that it's just a "story" with only some truth in it. Remember she's learning how to detect lies.

I do love the idea that it's so 'deliciously dark' (what a great turn of phrase... it's velvety smooth) but even if 'Mercy' was playing the role of the Bloody Hand's wife (Sansa) does Arya even know about the whole Sansa/Tyrion wedding and the fact that Sansa disappeared after the Purple Wedding? If she is playing the role of the Bloody Hand's Wife (the Lady Anne Neville analogue, I suppose) does she even know that its based on Sansa?

She doesn't make any connections to what actually happened but Mercy isn't from Westeros so even if she did realize that the play was about Robert, Joffrey, Cersei and Sansa then she might not consciously think about it.

So was this Needle? Seems like it was and it doesnt belong to Mercy so to speak.

It's seems like it is not Needle, Needle is too big to fit into a hidden pocket and too small to be a "proper sword". it seems like she carries a finger knife up her sleeve which she uses to kill Raff. Needle doesn't seem like a weapon that she could actually use.

There aren't really any particulars that weren't already well known. Robert got eaten by a boar, there was a wedding or two somewhere in there, etc. This is political and social gossip that is anyone could know. Everything else seemed highly dramatized. For example, Tyrion didn't actually sell his soul to the devil, Robert didn't give some noble speech, etc.

yeah if they did the "true events" then who would bother watching the play?

[Florina Laufeyson]

ok I accept Floki's insight to the gods wisdom /shrug

:devil:

So did Arya go rogue in killing Raff? What was the point of training with Izembaro to just be messing around as a mummer? Was there someone else they were supposed to go after? And Arya just ruined it?

Is this how she leaves the faceless men? If she even does leave them?

Im not certain but it seems like the Raff killing was not an assignment.

When Mercy glanced at the faces beneath the gilded, lion-crested helm, her belly gave a quiver. The gods have given me a gift. Her fingers clutched hard at Daena’s arm. “That guard. The one on the end, behind the Black Pearl.”

I think her being with Izembaro is a part of the FM training.

[Rickeen Stark]

I assumed she was in the mind of 'mercy' while keeping the act up. Until her 'mission' triggered or, seeing Raff just made her return to Arya for a little bit. Arya may care about these things; she doesn't want to give oral sex for perks, MERCY was musing it. Arya is acting as Mercy, so obviously she has thoughts like she does. But the fact she hasn't done it or anything similar is proof that Arya is still in control. Yes, she Is showing some psychopathic tendencies, but Raff did deserve it! I found it awesome how she lured him away and killed him.

[kephv]

Perhaps since the Iron bank has backed Stannis instead of Tommen Arya was ordered to disrupt Harys Swifts party and she just got lucky in how she was able to do it.

Come to think of it, that is very plausible.

[ARYa_Nym]

I'm still not sure on her age. In Vanity Fair GRRM said she was 11. In this chapter she says she'll grow breasts in a year or 2. Now not everyone grows at the same time but maybe GRRM just sets the bar at 12.

[Moon-Pale Maiden]

We know from the last conversation that the Kindly Man wondered how Arya should look next time, and tells her she'll have a pretty face, as pretty as her own -- which implies that she's in fact "wearing" Mercedene's face. And given that, I wonder to what degree some of Arya's internal voice may be subtly changed not just by her being a little older and more wordly-wise, but also because we know that a remnant of the deceased's memories come along with them when you don their face; some of their personality might "seep in", so to speak.

Yes, I thought that when they mentioned her smile, her laughter and her general personality which was so un-Arya-like. I suppose she could have put it on for the sake of mummery, but she sincerely acts this way even when alone in the beginning which makes me think that she is being somewhat influenced by the 'face'.

I love that Arya is growing up - the old Arya (shut up, stupid! I could kill you if I wanted to!) would never have been able to pull this off. The seduction, the subtle sexuality and quick thinking - this is a new, more mature Arya for sure - and a darker one at that. Martin is a master, truly. Excellent.

My blood quite literally ran cold at the line '“Think so?” asked Arya, sweetly." Like the reveal in a horror movie.

[ladytiger]

I assumed she was in the mind of 'mercy' while keeping the act up. Until her 'mission' triggered or, seeing Raff just made her return to Arya for a little bit. Arya may care about these things; she doesn't want to give oral sex for perks, MERCY was musing it. Arya is acting as Mercy, so obviously she has thoughts like she does. But the fact she hasn't done it or anything similar is proof that Arya is still in control. Yes, she Is showing some psychopathic tendencies, but Raff did deserve it! I found it awesome how she lured him away and killed him.

That chapter was so amazing. I need to go back and reread it.

[kephv]

It's safe to say that if she's not twelve she will be very soon -- too much time has passed for her to be eleven much longer. Then again, Arya seems to have stopped keeping track of her own age, so even she may not know for sure.

[ARYa_Nym]

Yes, I thought that when they mentioned her smile, her laughter and her general personality which was so un-Arya-like. I suppose she could have put it on for the sake of mummery, but she sincerely acts this way even when alone in the beginning which makes me think that she is being somewhat influenced by the 'face'.

I love that Arya is growing up - the old Arya (shut up, stupid! I could kill you if I wanted to!) would never have been able to pull this off. The seduction, the subtle sexuality and quick thinking - this is a new, more mature Arya for sure - and a darker one at that. Martin is a master, truly. Excellent.

Yeah, she giggles. I don't remember her doing that since she was with Jon. A lot of it is her wearing and becoming the mask.

[Not Dead Just Broken]

I think this sums up Arya's mission as she sees it pretty nicely:

As I cannot be the hero, let me be the monster, and lesson them in fear in place of love.”

Mercy mouthed the last lines along with him. They were better lines than hers, and apt besides.

She's all about lessoning people in fear in place of love.

[Florina Laufeyson]

I might as well post this quote here, as well, since this is the chapter's 'official' discussion thread.

“Seven hells, this place is damp,” she heard her guard complain. “I’m chilled to the bones. Where are the bloody orange trees? I always heard there were orange trees in the Free Cities. Lemons and limes. Pomegranates. Hot peppers, warm nights, girls with bare bellies. Where are the bare-bellied girls, I ask you?”

“Down in Lys, and Myr, and Old Volantis,” the other guard replied. He was an older man, big-bellied and grizzled. “I went to Lys with Lord Tywin once, when he was Hand to Aerys. Braavos is north of King’s Landing, fool. Can’t you read a bloody map?”

Yeah.. Thats a thing, dude. I did notice this at first but got really caught up in the moment. So wtf is going on here? If Dany's memory of the house with the red door and the lemon tree isnt Braavos...where...? Or is there a lemon tree planted somewhere in a yard but its not common?

She hears that Sansa married the Imp and killed Joffrey by turning into a wolf with wings. Arya dismisses the story because Sansa only knew "songs not spells" but she doesn't believe that Joffrey is dead.

Let's not forget that Arya has been listening in on "sailor's stories" about KL. She knows that the "Black Bastard" is Lord Commander, she knows that the war is done basically. She's not completely in the dark from Westeros news.

Pretty sure she knows that it's just a "story" with only some truth in it. Remember she's learning how to detect lies.

She doesn't make any connections to what actually happened but Mercy isn't from Westeros so even if she did realize that the play was about Robert, Joffrey, Cersei and Sansa then she might not consciously think about it.

K. I dig. It does seem like she either doesnt believe anything she hears about KL, or just simply isnt paying attention because shes not supposed to. (Which is hella brutal if you think about it. Arya can "turn" herself on and off like that. D: )

[Cas Stark]

This kill I should think will cause her more problems with the FM than the NW guy, she's officially "on assignment" and wearing someone's face when she goes rogue and does a freelance personal kill, and one of the Westerosi envoy's guards, no less, so very high profile, not some random guy that nobody will notice or care about. And her character of Mercy was seen to have left with him, so also, not very subtle or careful on her part.

[kephv]

We know from the last conversation that the Kindly Man wondered how Arya should look next time, and tells her she'll have a pretty face, as pretty as her own -- which implies that she's in fact "wearing" Mercedene's face. And given that, I wonder to what degree some of Arya's internal voice may be subtly changed not just by her being a little older and more wordly-wise, but also because we know that a remnant of the deceased's memories come along with them when you don their face; some of their personality might "seep in", so to speak.

She does seem to reference Mercy's personality a lot, possibly having experienced a bit of it first hand when she put on the face. I do wonder how much the deceased person comes through, or whether it is different between males and females--the Km says that not many women have been FM, and perhaps for the reason that they can get lost in the roles they play, so to speak.

[ARYa_Nym]

Her logic is probably I'm going to change my face again so it doesn't matter. The Ugly Girl had witnesses too.

[WeirwoodTreeHugger]

Florina Laufeyson, on 26 Mar 2014 - 9:43 PM, said:Florina Laufeyson, on 26 Mar 2014 - 9:43 PM, said:

Hmmm...yer probably right. /shrug

Oh the crackpottery! I do like the idea that Bran is spying on Nymeria through the weirnet. I wasnt expecting to see Arya's whole sexual maturing process so soon but i think its safe to assume shes going to "flower" very soon so to speak.

At first, when Raff started bleeding, I thought it was Arya that was bleeding and she was flowering. So I agree.

TheMysteriousOne, on 26 Mar 2014 - 9:44 PM, said:TheMysteriousOne, on 26 Mar 2014 - 9:44 PM, said:

I might as well post this quote here, as well, since this is the chapter's 'official' discussion thread.

“Seven hells, this place is damp,” she heard her guard complain. “I’m chilled to the bones. Where are the bloody orange trees? I always heard there were orange trees in the Free Cities. Lemons and limes. Pomegranates. Hot peppers, warm nights, girls with bare bellies. Where are the bare-bellied girls, I ask you?”

“Down in Lys, and Myr, and Old Volantis,” the other guard replied. He was an older man, big-bellied and grizzled. “I went to Lys with Lord Tywin once, when he was Hand to Aerys. Braavos is north of King’s Landing, fool. Can’t you read a bloody map?”

Are you referring to how strange it is that Dany remembers a lemon tree in Braavos?

ETA: Ninja'd by Florina and Newstar

[kephv]

Yeah, that's pretty much the point of the face wearing--you can't very well track down someone who's already dead.

[Cas Stark]

Yes, but the FM use those faces to help them kill anonymously. No one knows the "ugly girl" is the one who slipped the poisoned coin to the banker. Mercy leaving with a Westerosi guard who then will be found dead with his throad cut in the water is going to look very, very bad unless you think that she was there to kill Raff, which seems unlikely.

[Faint]

I'm still not sure on her age. In Vanity Fair GRRM said she was 11. In this chapter she says she'll grow breasts in a year or 2. Now not everyone grows at the same time but maybe GRRM just sets the bar at 12.

It's safe to say that if she's not twelve she will be very soon -- too much time has passed for her to be eleven much longer. Then again, Arya seems to have stopped keeping track of her own age, so even she may not know for sure.

We've yet to get any sort of confirmation that it is 301 yet, which means Arya would necessarily have to be eleven. I'm not even sure that we should assume she is close to being twelve since we have no idea whether she was born early in the year or later.

[Ser Creighton]

Yes, I thought that when they mentioned her smile, her laughter and her general personality which was so un-Arya-like. I suppose she could have put it on for the sake of mummery, but she sincerely acts this way even when alone in the beginning which makes me think that she is being somewhat influenced by the 'face'.

I love that Arya is growing up - the old Arya (shut up, stupid! I could kill you if I wanted to!) would never have been able to pull this off. The seduction, the subtle sexuality and quick thinking - this is a new, more mature Arya for sure - and a darker one at that. Martin is a master, truly. Excellent.

My blood quite literally ran cold at the line '“Think so?” asked Arya, sweetly." Like the reveal in a horror movie.

So basically there is skin changing and there is skin changing. Think about it.