R+L=J v.78

[Chebyshov]

Your point about the dragons three heads then all would be Rhaegar's is pretty satisfiable.

'Tis not at the birth of the child that the father fucks the mother, but nine months before that ;)

Or did I miss your point?

No, I just assumed Rhaegar didn't bang his mom...

[CommanderBC]

No, I just assumed Rhaegar didn't bang his mom...

lol, point taken. I ought to go to bed..

[Nami]

On another note maybe R+L relationship was like Jon and Ygritte's romance. Maybe the parallel is intentional?

If you think Jon's personality is similar to Rhaegar's and Lyanna was bold like Ygritte

[The Lord of Corpses]

I must have missed any R+L=J nods in the latest episode, but to say A+J=T was proven (or even referenced) in 4x02 is laughable.

Here is the abridged version.

A Lion King takes his Direwolf Sword given to him by his Grandfather Lion Hand and splits his Dragon Book given to him by his Half Dragon Half Lion Uncle into Seven Pieces thus cursing him by the Stragner. He then demands a Dragonbone Dagger with a Dragon Blade be replaced with a Lannister shell to replace the " wedding gift ".

The " dagger " half dragon half lion is Tyrion himself when the Mother Queen Lion cries out " He did it!".

That is how A+J=T was proven in the Lion and the Rose.

I can't even on this forum anymore. This is what someone is yelling at me on a Tyrion thread. After first saying that everyone on this R+L=J thread doesn't know anything about the books.

Nobody was yelling. I am sorry if you felt that way. I was simply trying to have a discussion with you. Sorry if you felt the need to " back up " your thread. I wasn't calling anybody out directly just making a simple statement/opinion known to the general public.

I have joined that thread to help you ;)

So " help you " is to get A+J=T shut down for being to large by the Mod's? I guess I will have to start A+J=T v2 tomorrow. All of the frequent posters from this thread will be " more than welcome " to discuss the position of our two hidden Targs with fellow " church of A.D.D.A believers " ( Alcoholic Dragon Dreamers Anonymous ) in good spirit and with polite discussion always based upon reference to the text. I can offer no more than that, if you refuse or believe I am attempting to mislead you then alas I cannot " help you " understand " my theories " any further. I already an well aware of yours and the evidence you have to back it up.

And I've reported it. I'm sick of being referred to as "cronie", "church" or whatever else. Sick.

cro·ny

noun \ˈkrō-nē\

: a close friend of someone; especially : a friend of someone powerful (such as a politician) who is unfairly given special treatment or favors

I was not aware this was a " sick " word. I apologize if you were offended. Maybe you should have PM'ed me first before getting the Mods involved.

I think he's the fourth? five? incarnation... the troll who was promised.

Well if I was Beric D then wouldn't I be the Sixth incarnation?

There's a troll in every man, and it stirs when you put a keyboard in its hand. It is known

Very original. I have also been known as " the poster who was promised ". And by " the poster formerly known as Prince ".

[VisenyaLives]

I've thought about that because if Aegon is real then the 3 front runners for the dragon heads would all be Rhaegar's. But isn't Dany's birth on the ship pretty well documented? Or witnessed?

I thought it was 9 months after the rebellion on dragonstone. I'm sure towards the "mad " era of Aerys, Dany's mom wasn't too thrilled to be in bed with him, the biting, clawing that sort of thing.

[CommanderBC]

wow, what have made you come here and be so passive aggressive? There is no need.

I quite like the A+J=T theory. Hasn't it been stated Aerys was a rapist?

[Chebyshov]

lol, point taken. I ought to go to bed..

Lol I've made the same thought-mistake too. I also toyed with Dany and Jon being Lyanna's twins, but the whole Dany being born on a ship at sea seems rather difficult to explain, so I dismissed that idea.

Here is the abridged version.

A Lion King takes his Direwolf Sword given to him by his Grandfather Lion Hand and splits his Dragon Book given to him by his Half Dragon Half Lion Uncle into Seven Pieces thus cursing him by the Stragner. He then demands a Dragonbone Dagger with a Dragon Blade be replaced with a Lannister shell to replace the " wedding gift ".

The " dagger " half dragon half lion is Tyrion himself when the Mother Queen Lion cries out " He did it!".

That is how A+J=T was proven in the Lion and the Rose.

".

Interesting read...I never thought about that symbolism with the swords and the sigils.

Though the dagger wasn't mentioned last night; I was actually mad it wasn't.

We also may have different definitions of the word "proven."

[Chebyshov]

Side note, but shouldn't we be using spoiler tags for the show?

[roxWolfox]

Here is the abridged version.

A Lion King takes his Direwolf Sword given to him by his Grandfather Lion Hand and splits his Dragon Book given to him by his Half Dragon Half Lion Uncle into Seven Pieces thus cursing him by the Stragner. He then demands a Dragonbone Dagger with a Dragon Blade be replaced with a Lannister shell to replace the " wedding gift ".

The " dagger " half dragon half lion is Tyrion himself when the Mother Queen Lion cries out " He did it!".

That is how A+J=T was proven in the Lion and the Rose.

Nobody was yelling. I am sorry if you felt that way. I was simply trying to have a discussion with you. Sorry if you felt the need to " back up " your thread. I wasn't calling anybody out directly just making a simple statement/opinion known to the general public.

So " help you " is to get A+J=T shut down for being to large by the Mod's? I guess I will have to start A+J=T v2 tomorrow. All of the frequent posters from this thread will be " more than welcome " to discuss the position of our two hidden Targs with fellow " church of A.D.D.A believers " ( Alcoholic Dragon Dreamers Anonymous ) in good spirit and with polite discussion always based upon reference to the text. I can offer no more than that, if you refuse or believe I am attempting to mislead you then alas I cannot " help you " understand " my theories " any further. I already an well aware of yours and the evidence you have to back it up.

cro·ny

noun \ˈkrō-nē\

: a close friend of someone; especially : a friend of someone powerful (such as a politician) who is unfairly given special treatment or favors

I was not aware this was a " sick " word. I apologize if you were offended. Maybe you should have PM'ed me first before getting the Mods involved.

Well if I was Beric D then wouldn't I be the Sixth incarnation?

Very original. I have also been known as " the poster who was promised ". And by " the poster formerly known as Prince ".

Oh my. He was here? As soon as I saw the quotation mark/space/text/space/quotation marks, my jaw dropped. :frown5:

I thought he only posted in Dance with Dragon forum.

tch.

Is this his fifth name? Or sixth.

le sigh

[Lyse Stark]

Oh my. He was here? As soon as I saw the quotation mark/space/text/space/quotation marks, my jaw dropped. :frown5:

I thought he only posted in Dance with Dragon forum.

tch.

Is this his fifth name? Or sixth.

le sigh

That troll deserves to be banned.

[J. Stargaryen]

That troll deserves to be banned.

He has been. Repeatedly.

[Sir Dominus]

He has been. Repeatedly.

He's like the trolling internet version of the game whack a mole

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

So " help you " is to get A+J=T shut down for being to large by the Mod's? I guess I will have to start A+J=T v2 tomorrow. All of the frequent posters from this thread will be " more than welcome " to discuss the position of our two hidden Targs with fellow " church of A.D.D.A believers " ( Alcoholic Dragon Dreamers Anonymous ) in good spirit and with polite discussion always based upon reference to the text. I can offer no more than that, if you refuse or believe I am attempting to mislead you then alas I cannot " help you " understand " my theories " any further. I already an well aware of yours and the evidence you have to back it up.

Woah... Stop for a minute.. Just because I was the last poster, does not automatically mean that I was the one who got the thread shut down. For your information, threads are usually shut down after they have passed the 400 posts. That one was allowed to continue longer. Why? I wouldn't know. Perhaps it passed notice? Or perhaps they allowed it for another reason?

The thread seems to have been reported, seeing at it was shut down so quickly. Seeing as no mod placed a message saying that the thread is going to be shut down due to the language used, which is done if mods notice the language in a thread is going the wrong direction, it truly does seem someone personally reported the thread, and whatever reason they stated, the mods accepted it.

To prevent you from throwing things like this in my face: I did not report the thread. I joined the thread to defend the R+J=L theory. Shutting down a thread would not really do that, now would it?

To continue. I asked you to explain, and you have here:

Here is the abridged version.

A Lion King takes his Direwolf Sword given to him by his Grandfather Lion Hand and splits his Dragon Book given to him by his Half Dragon Half Lion Uncle into Seven Pieces thus cursing him by the Stragner. He then demands a Dragonbone Dagger with a Dragon Blade be replaced with a Lannister shell to replace the " wedding gift ".

The " dagger " half dragon half lion is Tyrion himself when the Mother Queen Lion cries out " He did it!".

That is how A+J=T was proven in the Lion and the Rose.

But I wanted to take a closer look at this. In red is all mine. Underlined is what I'm referring to in your post.

A Lion King takes his Direwolf Sword given to him by his Grandfather Lion Hand and splits his Dragon Book given to him by his Half Dragon Half Lion Uncle Here is where it starts. Naming someone half dragon half lion does not make it so, yet you try to use it here as evidence immediately

into Seven Pieces I had to check this. In the books, Joffrey indeed uses seven cuts to chop up the book completely. In the TV show, however, Joffrey uses only 4 cuts. Seeing as you are stating things from the TV show, this part of your statement is incorrect. I also can't see the significance of the seven cuts in your theory. If there is any significance, perhaps you could explain?

thus cursing him by the Stragner.This did not happen on the TV show, nor in the books

He then demands a Dragonbone Dagger This happens nowhere as well. To quote the book:

Joffrey undid his old swordbelt to don his new one. “You and Lady Sansa owe me a better present, Uncle Imp. This one is all chopped to pieces.”

Tyrion was staring at his nephew with his mismatched eyes. “Perhaps a knife, sire. To match your sword. A dagger of the same fine Valyrian steel... with a dragonbone hilt, say?”

It is Tyrion who suggests the dagger, Joffrey only states Tyrion needs to buy him a new gift.

with a Dragon Blade be replaced Again, it is Tyrion who suggests the dagger. And the "dragon blade" that you mention is no where present. I guess you are referring to the dragonbone, which Joffrey demands to be replaced with a gold hilt with rubies. I guess you are referring to that, which is, again, something that only happens in the books, not in the TV show.

with a Lannister shell to replace the " wedding gift ".

The " dagger " half dragon half lion is Tyrion himself when the Mother Queen Lion cries out " He did it!". The dagger (which is not mentioned in the TV show) is Tyrion himself? But Tyrion is innocent.. How can Tyrion be a dagger?

That is how A+J=T was proven in the Lion and the Rose. Lots of your "proof" does not even happen in that episode. Which makes me believe in your "evidence" even less than I did before.

But perhaps this conversation should be moved. Especially if you are going to open a version 2 of the thread, using the TV episode as evidence, I think you should post it in the TV part of the forum, indicating in the title that there are book spoilers in there, so both the TV episode and books can be used for the discussion. This is also why I've placed everything under a spoiler tag now.

[Ygrain]

snip

I am not inclined to PM with posters who go about spewing insults.

I reported you, and in the report I mentioned the length of the thread, as well, because it was long overdue, and there's certainly no need for you to act as if I took away your toy or something. Threads get locked for length all the time and I fully expect you to be able to start another, like everyone else does.

[Ygrain]

NVM, I see he has been banned again.

[FrozenFire3]

Really?

I saw nothing objectionable there, and I know you are a conscientious person, sensitive to protocols.

TBH, I'm starting to get a little frustrated and am considering waiting until ALL the books are done before continuing on.

I feel you, sis. Lately the level of discussion on these boards has dropped quite a bit.

This thread has been consistently prolific with its textual and meta-textual analytical contributions. Now we are stuck between the increasing trolling disruptions and analysis constrictions due to the board policy in regards to the book/show (alleged) dichotomy. The hammer and the anvil lol A real pity considering how central to the saga the mystery of Jon's parentage is (both in the books and in the show version: see the question GRRM tested D&D with before giving the green light).

Btw, are we still allowed to use the graphic novel to extend a bit our 'observation field'? Or is it off-limits like the show, the bluray history&lore extras and the cast&crew interviews/contributions? What about D&E and the Dance of the Dragons spin-offs? I feel like we are running out of new source material :unsure:

[CommanderBC]

I have some source material for you. Well. Not from the books per se, but I am reading old interviews with George, and just now this one from 1999: http://web.archive.org/web/20001005212114/eventhorizon.com/sfzine/chats/transcripts/031899.html

A question got my undivided attention, and I smiled wide by the answer.

Granny: "Is there any chance that Jon could be released from his oaths of the nightwatch?"

George_RR_Martin: "The great council would have released Aemon from his maester's oath, so I suppose it would be possible. With an appropriate authority.

Now what would that appropriate authority be? Stannis? Himself, as King In The North? Daenarys? Speculation-time."

I also found this, off topic, but to fun to not be posted.

George_RR_Martin: "How do I gauge it? Well, very badly, judging by the fact that it has grown from three books to six. I have changed twice. Once from three to four, then four to six. But IT ENDS THERE! SIX! SIX! SIX!"

:)

[Khal Pod]

snip

Nice find, speculation time indeed. I hope he gets relieved of his oath, but I also want to see him lead the fight against the others. I need this next book and I need it yesterday.

[horizon]

Nice find, speculation time indeed. I hope he gets relieved of his oath, but I also want to see him lead the fight against the others. I need this next book and I need it yesterday.

Or to see him lead the Others into battle. har har. ;)

[Chebyshov]

I have some source material for you. Well. Not from the books per se, but I am reading old interviews with George, and just now this one from 1999: http://web.archive.org/web/20001005212114/eventhorizon.com/sfzine/chats/transcripts/031899.html

A question got my undivided attention, and I smiled wide by the answer.

Granny: "Is there any chance that Jon could be released from his oaths of the nightwatch?"

George_RR_Martin: "The great council would have released Aemon from his maester's oath, so I suppose it would be possible. With an appropriate authority.

Now what would that appropriate authority be? Stannis? Himself, as King In The North? Daenarys? Speculation-time."

I also found this, off topic, but to fun to not be posted.

George_RR_Martin: "How do I gauge it? Well, very badly, judging by the fact that it has grown from three books to six. I have changed twice. Once from three to four, then four to six. But IT ENDS THERE! SIX! SIX! SIX!"

:)

I'm hoping he would get released from his vows rather than the whole "death negates them" angle. That feels cheap to me.